18650 batteries for 100+ Watts?

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Ryedan

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There is a big difference in the vape experience at say 10 watts compared to 30 watts and it's much more than just flavor and clouds. Not everyone wants to go there but for those that do it can be a rewarding experience. OTOH it's not good for everyone, YMMV as always :)

I understand all that, however 30 watts and 100 watts are worlds apart.
So I guess my question really is ... where does wattage become an exercise of the extreme with no redeeming value?
Or .. what is the redeeming value?

Sorry for the late response tj, but I've been a bit busy lately :)

I've read the rest of this thread and I think you've already got some great responses to your question. Just want to add a couple of thoughts.

The difference in the vape experience between 10-30 watts is what happens with three times the power which is very close to the difference between 30-100 watts. IMO both scenarios require about the same amount of difference in hardware and builds to make them a good vape. Looking at it from another angle, compare the difference between 10-11 watts and 90-100 watts. Both are about a 10% difference so will give a similar change to your vape experience, but 10 watts sounds like a heck of a lot more than 1 watt until you take the amount of change into consideration.

For me, vaping safely and staying off the stinkies is the most important thing here. Don't vape burnt juice. Understand battery, hardware and juice ingredient safety factors. IMO whatever works for people that keeps them there is a good thing.
 

Ryedan

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I think you should look at the original post that you're referring to. I doubled the amp capacity of the parellel.

For more clarity... you doubled the amps in the lower voltage circuit but failed to clarify that each battery is only seeing half that load.

So in your summary it looks like your 20 or 30 amp parallel batteries need to put out 37.5 amps each to attain a 120 watt output.

When in fact each will only output 18.75 amps for a total of 37.5. Which makes the draw on the individual battery equal whether series or parallel with the same power output. As it should be.

beckdg is correct Boden. Battery current draw in dual battery, power regulated mods is for all intents the same weather the batts are in series or parrallel. The only difference is that DC-DC regulators have minor differences in efficiency at different voltage inputs, but that is only a few percent. It's all about the watts for this stuff.

Using 3.2V as the minimum battery voltage one battery will draw 19A at 55 watts and 29A at 84 watts. Both these scenarios are watts to the atty at 90% regulator efficiency.

Put in two batteries in either series or parallel and each will draw 19A at 110 watts and 29A at 168 watts.

Keeping things simple and not pushing my batteries too hard, I think of each 20A battery as capable of delivering 50 watts and each 30A battery 75 watts.
 
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Boden

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beckdg is correct Boden. Battery current draw in dual battery, power regulated mods is for all intents the same weather the batts are in series or parrallel. The only difference is that DC-DC regulators have minor differences in efficiency at different voltage inputs, but that is only a few percent. It's all about the watts for this stuff.

Using 3.2V as the minimum battery voltage one battery will draw 19A at 55 watts and 29A at 84 watts. Both these scenarios are watts to the atty at 90% regulator efficiency.

Put in two batteries in either series or parallel and each will draw 19A at 110 watts and 29A at 168 watts.

Keeping things simple and not pushing my batteries too hard, I think of each 20A battery as capable of delivering 50 watts and each 30A battery 75 watts.
I know

I was making a simple point about the configurations as a whole. I never mentioned anything about the demands on the individual cells.

If y'all want to write up the complex version, be my guest. :)
 

Ryedan

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I know

I was making a simple point about the configurations as a whole. I never mentioned anything about the demands on the individual cells.

If y'all want to write up the complex version, be my guest. :)

Got it Boden :)

Nope, I'm all complexed out for the day ... maybe ... OK, so not sure yet ...


:unsure:
 
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Bantam59

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f2c92fa97f9dacf4080b0a29324760ab.jpg

Thus is what's coming with my istick 100w , any suggestions or opinions?


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tj99959

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    Every time this comes up, I'm hearing west side story and thinking "when you're a jet......"

    I honestly couldn't care any less if anyone prefers to vape differently than I do. If I can help you get to your "happy place" with your device of choice, I'm gonna do just that, no questions asked!!

    It isn't a matter of caring how someone else vapes, it's a matter of trying to understand WHY they choose that method of vaping.
     
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    Baditude

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    f2c92fa97f9dacf4080b0a29324760ab.jpg

    Thus is what's coming with my istick 100w , any suggestions or opinions?
    Might be "adequate" for your 100 watt mod, depending upon how you'll vape, but you could do much better.

    Imren is a new battery brand, who allegedly recently bought out MNKE (which was a good brand but was having financial issues). Independent bench testing of some of the Imren models show that at least some of Imren's batteries have over-rated battery specs. Imren Purple 40a 2500mah 18650 bench test results; only a 20a battery, runs very hot

    I'll recommend the Sony VTC4 2100 mah 30 amps CDR batteries, especially if you want to make the most of your 100 watt iStick.

    DSC_0295__36609.1430697281.451.300.JPG
    Sony VTC4

    Battery Basics for Mods
     
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    Bantam59

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    Might be adequate for your 100 watt mod, but you could do much better.

    Imren is a new battery. More than likely a re-wrap of a second tier battery cell. Independent bench testing of some of their models show that at least some of Imren's batteries have over-rated batteries specs.

    I'll recommend the Sony VTC4 2100 mah 30 amps CDR batteries, especially if you want to make the most of your 100 watt iStick.

    DSC_0295__36609.1430697281.451.300.JPG
    Sony VTC4

    Battery Basics for Mods
    Thank you for explaining and for your advice.
     
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    Baditude

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    What are B bin rewraps?
    Determines battery cell quality.

    Not all ICR, INR, and IMR cells are created equal. This is where the supplier/manufacturer comes into play. There are quite a few different makers, some you can trust some you can’t. Will give a quick rundown of them and what makes them better.

    AW- In terms of cells these are the highest quality available. Andrew Wang used to work for Panasonic, developed his own company, and is the top provider of cells to flashlight users (and of course now vapers). He gets the top 5%* of cells from Panasonic, Sanyo, etc. and puts his custom PCB on ICR cells. Cells routinely last 500 charges or more if handled properly.

    Efest- Top 10% of cells from the same manufacturers as AW, though also gets cells from LG (top 15%) and Sony (top 15%). These do not last as long as as AW, but perform as well over the first 150 charges. Usually last 250-300 charges. As with the recent trend, another knock on Efest is their over stating of their amp limits on a lot of their high drain batteries.

    LG- Top 10% of cells are sold as bare cells to consumers. The top 5% are reserved only for cars, phones, laptops. They have improved their cell quality and chemistry over time. Would put them one notch below AW, but right up there with the other big battery manufacturers.

    Samsung- Usually only top 10% of cells are available to consumers. Top 5% are reserved for laptops, tools, and car companies. They specialize mainly in INR and ICR chemistry. Samsung cells out perform Sony, but due to INR still being in it’s infancy the cells do not last as long as their IMR brethren. This applies especially if using them in high amperage situations.

    Sony- Usually only top 10% are available to consumers, though they have sold a few top 5% when a new cell (like the VCT4 or 5) first gets released. Average life span is usually 350-450 charges. The only issue with Sony is they have exaggerated amperage numbers on the VCT4 and 5, though not through fault of their own*10. Another good cell, one notch below AW or Panasonic.

    Panasonic- Top 10% of cells are sold to consumers, save for hybrid IMR (like the 2900mAh) cells which are top 5%. These cells can last 400-500 charges*8, and are considered the next best cells to AW.

    IMREN (formerly MNKE)- Top 10% are available to consumers, their top 5% are reserved for car companies only. Since IMREN bought out MNKE can no longer call them a top cell manufacturer. Not because they are no longer making good batteries, but because the bare cells sold to the public are grossly over inflated when it comes to their amp ratings.

    Sanyo (owned by Panasonic)- Top 10% of cells available to consumers. Again ranks with Panasonic cells in quality. Last between 400-500 charges.

    Trustfire- Uses top 20% of LG, top 20% of Panasonic, top 20% of Sanyo. These are considered cheaper cells, but still decent. Usually get 200-300 charges out of them. Trustfire is a re-labeler like efest and AW but uses lesser quality cells. Avoid if possible. Has been known to lie about capacity on certain cells.

    Ultrafire- Uses cells that are under 20% from a number of manufacturers, or worse pulled cells of unknown origins. Infamous for using inflated mAh numbers, should be avoided at all costs.

    Resource -- Beginner's Guide to Lithium Batteries (rev. 3 April 2015)
     
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    Weedity

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    Might be "adequate" for your 100 watt mod, depending upon how you'll vape, but you could do much better.

    Imren is a new battery brand. More than likely a re-wrap of a second tier battery cell from another manufacturer. Independent bench testing of some of the Imren models show that at least some of Imren's batteries have over-rated battery specs. Imren Purple 40a 2500mah 18650 bench test results; only a 20a battery, runs very hot

    I'll recommend the Sony VTC4 2100 mah 30 amps CDR batteries, especially if you want to make the most of your 100 watt iStick.

    Sony VTC4

    Battery Basics for Mods

    Hey, I've been having trouble removing these from my box mod they are so tight in the slots that it gets scratched removing them even very gently. Is it safe to have a few scratches on the plus top area? Can I use electrical tape to protect it? I need some advice I don't need exploding batteries!
     

    Boden

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    Hey, I've been having trouble removing these from my box mod they are so tight in the slots that it gets scratched removing them even very gently. Is it safe to have a few scratches on the plus top area? Can I use electrical tape to protect it? I need some advice I don't need exploding batteries!
    Pictures please
     

    Baditude

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    Hey, I've been having trouble removing these from my box mod they are so tight in the slots that it gets scratched removing them even very gently. Is it safe to have a few scratches on the plus top area? Can I use electrical tape to protect it? I need some advice I don't need exploding batteries!
    That would be annoying. Poor design by the mod manufacturer.

    "Scratches" to the metal top shouldn't be much of a problem safety-wise, but if your batteries use a plastic wrap insulator on top which is getting worn, the manufacturer likely places it there for a reason to prevent battery arcing. I guess you could try to use electrical tape, but I'm not generally a fan of DIY fixes when it comes to batteries. Might be wiser to use a different mod as its going to be an ongoing issue.
     
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    Bad Ninja

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    edyle

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    I'll have to upload them after work in two hours. But they are VCT 4's with like slight denting in the wrap at the top.

    would be usefull to see pic of the battery compartment.
    usually it's just a matter of pressing down on the top of the battery to depress some spring, or springy plate on the bottom, instead of just ripping them out.
     
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    Weedity

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    Pictures please

    That would be annoying. Poor design by the mod manufacturer.

    "Scratches" to the metal top shouldn't be much of a problem safety-wise, but if your batteries use a plastic wrap insulator on top which is getting worn, the manufacturer likely places it there for a reason to prevent battery arcing. I guess you could try to use electrical tape, but I'm not generally a fan of DIY fixes when it comes to batteries. Might be wiser to use a different mod as its going to be an ongoing issue.

    would be usefull to see pic of the battery compartment.
    usually it's just a matter of pressing down on the top of the battery to depress some spring, or springy plate on the bottom, instead of just ripping them out.

    Okay here are the photos! Edit: cant get the second photo of my box mod to upload, but it's the xbube II. Will try again to upload. Lemme know if link works I'm not sure
     
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    TheRac25

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