18650's.. the details

[7sixtwo]

So I recently bought some Sony VTC5's instead of VTC4's, after assuming that the 5's are better in all respects, but then discovered from one of Mooch's tables that the VTC4's actually have a higher CDR and MCA than the 5's, which I guess makes sense, as they are 2100 mah rather than 2600 mah.

Does having a CDR over 20 amps and a MCA over 25 amps really matter when using regulated mods? If so, in what situations?

If better battery life is a top criterion, it appears that the MXJO (3 leg top cap) are the "best" at 3000 mah, 20 amp CDR, and 25 amp MCA. Are those more common and/or newer than the 4 leg top cap type?

I ask because I'm planning on getting a RX200 soonish and want to find the "best" set of batts for it. TIA for any advice/guidance.

 

[Susan~S]

MOJO batteries are re-wraps just like many others. So no, they are not the best. Explanation below.

@Mooch battery bench tests:

• MXJO 35A 3000mAh 3-Leg Top Cap 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 20A battery, probably a 30Q
• MXJO Yellow/Silver 35A 3000mAh 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A-20A battery, but near an HG2

There are only a few battery manufacturers in the world who make their own "cells", including LG, Samsung, Sony, Panasonic & Sanyo.

All the other brands on the market buy the second and third tier cells from those manufacturers and re-wrap them under their own brand. These are "second and/or third tier cells" which did not meet the higher standards of the original manufacturer. In order to compete with the original manufacturers' batteries (first tier), these other companies feel obligated to publish specifications which are inflated to make them appear superior to those of the original manufacturer.

* (AW is Andrew Wan, a former Panasonic employee who branched out to create his own "brand" of batteries. He allegedly has agreements with the major cell manufacturers to purchase first tier batteries from them. Not all batteries are created equal, so AW tests these batteries for quality. The best get chosen to be AW brand, and are re-wrapped as AW.)

I ask because I'm planning on getting a RX200 soonish and want to find the "best" set of batts for it.

• Calculating Battery Current Draw for a Regulated Mod

 

[7sixtwo]

Aha, so assuming that having a MCA over 20 amps doesn't matter, and I want max battery life in an OEM batt, I should go with LG HG2's at 3000 mah?

Thanks much for your help, btw.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Aha, so assuming that having a MCA over 20 amps doesn't matter, and I want max battery life in an OEM batt, I should go with LG HG2's at 3000 mah?

Thanks much for your help, btw.

I occasionaly use LG HG2's. They are not a bad battery at all. I do have a fondness for Samsung 30q's though-no idea why, maybe it is the pink that draws me to them

 

[Susan~S]

Aha, so assuming that having a MCA over 20 amps doesn't matter, and I want max battery life in an OEM batt, I should go with LG HG2's at 3000 mah?

Figure out your amp draw and then decide on the battery that best meets your needs. Both the Samsung 30q & LG HG2's are good batteries.

Calculating Battery Current Draw for a Regulated Mod

 

[7sixtwo]

Figure out your amp draw and then decide on the battery that best meets your needs. Both the Samsung & LG HG2's are good batteries.

Calculating Battery Current Draw for a Regulated Mod

Ok, thanks again.

 

[Bad Ninja]

MOJO batteries are re-wraps just like many others. So no, they are not the best. Explanation below.

@Mooch battery bench tests:

• MXJO 35A 3000mAh 3-Leg Top Cap 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 20A battery, probably a 30Q
• MXJO Yellow/Silver 35A 3000mAh 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A-20A battery, but near an HG2

There are only a few battery manufacturers in the world who make their own "cells", including LG, Samsung, Sony, Panasonic & Sanyo.

All the other brands on the market buy the second and third tier cells from those manufacturers and re-wrap them under their own brand. These are "second and/or third tier cells" which did not meet the higher standards of the original manufacturer. In order to compete with the original manufacturers' batteries (first tier), these other companies feel obligated to publish specifications which are inflated to make them appear superior to those of the original manufacturer.

* (AW is Andrew Wan, a former Panasonic employee who branched out to create his own "brand" of batteries. He allegedly has agreements with the major cell manufacturers to purchase first tier batteries from them. Not all batteries are created equal, so AW tests these batteries for quality. The best get chosen to be AW brand, and are re-wrapped as AW.)

• Calculating Battery Current Draw for a Regulated Mod

I don't trust AW rewraps.
They used to be a trusted name, however not so much anymore.
AW has inflated CDR ratings on at least one cell.

AW 20A 2200mAh Button-Top 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A battery

 

[7sixtwo]

I don't trust AW rewraps.
They used to be a trusted name, however not so much anymore.
AW has inflated CDR ratings on at least one cell.

AW 20A 2200mAh Button-Top 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A battery

With plenty of legit, proven OEM batts on the market, I just don't see any reason to "risk" buying AW's.

 

[suprtrkr]

If I wanted more than 60ish watts from a 1 battery mod, or more than 120ish from a 2 battery mod, on a regular basis, I'd suggest Sony VTC4s. Short of those numbers, a 20A battery is fine, and there are plenty of good ones. I run 2 RX200s, and I have the LG HG2s in them.

 

[petrotech]

MOJO batteries are re-wraps just like many others. So no, they are not the best. Explanation below.

@Mooch battery bench tests:

• MXJO 35A 3000mAh 3-Leg Top Cap 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 20A battery, probably a 30Q
• MXJO Yellow/Silver 35A 3000mAh 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A-20A battery, but near an HG2

There are only a few battery manufacturers in the world who make their own "cells", including LG, Samsung, Sony, Panasonic & Sanyo.

All the other brands on the market buy the second and third tier cells from those manufacturers and re-wrap them under their own brand. These are "second and/or third tier cells" which did not meet the higher standards of the original manufacturer. In order to compete with the original manufacturers' batteries (first tier), these other companies feel obligated to publish specifications which are inflated to make them appear superior to those of the original manufacturer.

* (AW is Andrew Wan, a former Panasonic employee who branched out to create his own "brand" of batteries. He allegedly has agreements with the major cell manufacturers to purchase first tier batteries from them. Not all batteries are created equal, so AW tests these batteries for quality. The best get chosen to be AW brand, and are re-wrapped as AW.)

• Calculating Battery Current Draw for a Regulated Mod

I got a dumb question...if AW re-wraps their cells...what cell is the 18350 a re-wrap of? Just curious...I've always known AW were re-wraps, but now my slightly intoxicated brain is wondering who the original manufacturer is?

 

[7sixtwo]

If I wanted more than 60ish watts from a 1 battery mod, or more than 120ish from a 2 battery mod, on a regular basis, I'd suggest Sony VTC4s. Short of those numbers, a 20A battery is fine, and there are plenty of good ones. I run 2 RX200s, and I have the LG HG2s in them.

I want more than 120W out of a 3 battery mod, (RX200), so I'm leaning toward the LG HG2's for their 3000 mah. Thanks for confirming that they work well in that device.

For 1 batt mods; why VTC4's instead of VTC5's? How and when would the extra 5 MCA really make a difference? I'm using VTC5's in my Kanger Topbox Mini, (run it in TC nearly all the time and it uses all ~75W for that).

 

[f1vefour]

But I want more than 120W out of a 3 battery mod, on a regular basis, and I want to charge them as infrequently as possible. Why VTC4's instead of VTC5's? How and when would the extra 5 MCA really make a difference? I'm using VTC5's in my Kanger Topbox Mini, (run it in TC nearly all the time and it uses all ~75W for that).

Three VTC5 are fine to run up to the full wattage of the RX200, which I highly doubt is 200 watts. You will just be running on the outer edge if running full throttle.

Keep in mind the VTC5 is the most cloned battery and the newer generation is not as good as the older (circa 2014) batteries.

Personally I like the 30Q, long life and pretty in pink. If I could get VTC5s like the two I have from late 2014 I wouldn't hesitate, but alas they are all gone.

 

[suprtrkr]

But I want more than 120W out of a 3 battery mod, on a regular basis, and I want to charge them as infrequently as possible. Why VTC4's instead of VTC5's? How and when would the extra 5 MCA really make a difference? I'm using VTC5's in my Kanger Topbox Mini, (run it in TC nearly all the time and it uses all ~75W for that).

I would go with the LG HG2s or the Samsung 30Qs in a three battery mod in that case. They will tolerate running to 200 amps. I use the VTC4s, rather than the VTC5s, because the 4s will tolerate running to 30A without dangerous overheating, although operating them above 20A shortens their life. The 5s are a strict 20A battery and can not be safely run above the red line.

 

[7sixtwo]

...Keep in mind the VTC5 is the most cloned battery and the newer generation is not as good as the older (circa 2014) batteries.

Personally I like the 30Q, long life and pretty in pink. If I could get VTC5s like the two I have from late 2014 I wouldn't hesitate, but alas they are all gone.

I bought my VTC5's from RTDVapor, so I'm pretty sure they're legit. I don't know when they were made, though.

The 30Q's look good as well. I'll just pick up a set of either those or HG2's, whichever I can find a better deal on, (from reputable sources only, of course).

 

[suprtrkr]

I got a dumb question...if AW re-wraps their cells...what cell is the 18350 a re-wrap of? Just curious...I've always known AW were re-wraps, but now my slightly intoxicated brain is wondering who the original manufacturer is?

They are supposed to be AESC cells, or so I have read. But I don't know that, or think anybody does.

 

[7sixtwo]

I would go with the LG HG2s or the Samsung 30Qs in a three battery mod in that case. They will tolerate running to 200 amps. I use the VTC4s, rather than the VTC5s, because the 4s will tolerate running to 30A without dangerous overheating, although operating them above 20A shortens their life. The 5s are a strict 20A battery and can not be safely run above the red line.

I kind of wish I'd read all the specs before I chose between VTC4's and VTC5's. Still, the 5's last longer between charges, so I don't have too many regrets.

Thanks for your input.

 

[7sixtwo]

Three VTC5 are fine to run up to the full wattage of the RX200, which I highly doubt is 200 watts. You will just be running on the outer edge if running full throttle...

Yeah, I doubt it's a full 200W.. but what regulated mod really provides full advertised power? Anyway, I'll be running it well short of that, prolly max of 150W and usually lower.

Thanks for the help.

 

[f1vefour]

Yeah, I doubt it's a full 200W.. but what regulated mod really provides full advertised power? Anyway, I'll be running it well short of that, prolly max of 150W and usually lower.

Thanks for the help.

I think the DNA200 comes close, but right most high powered devices don't come close to the advertised wattage.

 

[Baditude]

I got a dumb question...if AW re-wraps their cells...what cell is the 18350 a re-wrap of? Just curious...I've always known AW were re-wraps, but now my slightly intoxicated brain is wondering who the original manufacturer is?

It was generally accepted that AW re-wrapped other manufactured cells (probably Panasonic) a few years ago when all there was were protected ICR batteries. These ICR cells had "Assembled in China, Cell and IC made in Japan" on the shrink wrap label.



However, AW was the first to put IMR batteries on the market about four years ago. AW IMR batteries only said "Made in China". They are also the only brand to offer high quality 14500, 18350, and 18490/18500 IMR batteries. LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sanyo, and Sony don't make IMR/INR batteries in those sizes, so they are probably not re-wraps. I personally believe AW is making their own IMR batteries in China. I have no evidence to support this belief, just a paper trail.



AW's current top IMR battery, the 18650 3000mah 20 amp CDR, says "Made in Korea". Mooch said the performance profile of this cell matches those of the LG HG2, so it may be a re-wrap. AW 20A 3000mAh Flat-Top 18650 Bench Test Results...a good high-capacity 20A battery, could be an HG2

 

[suprtrkr]

Thanks, Bad.

My 800mAh 18350 AWs say "made in China"