2 Doctors 1 E-Cig And A Rant

[Vidi]

Doctors make up things. They simply make them up in order to "prove" their point.

A few years back, I had Gall Stones. When I expressed to my Doctor my concern over having my Gall Bladder removed, he replied," Oh I take out ten gall bladders a week. Its simple and there are no side effects." At the time, I was living in a town of about 3500 people. If he took out ten a week, he would have removed EVERYONES in the town's gall bladders in just a few years. And he lied about no one having side effects later on as well.

I no longer believe everything doctors tell me. They are far too concerned about seeming to be right than actually being right.

 

[iamjn]

Keep in mind that a Doctorate degree=well educated. It does not always =intelligent. There is a difference.

On a side note, for some reason when I'm picturing this guy, my mind is automatically placing a pipe in his hand and an Old English accent.

 

[mokeyjoe]

He's a psychologist without a medical degree. My flatmate's got a Phd in psychloghy and he's in middle management and is training to be a police officer, I wouldn't trust his opinion on medical matters any more than my own - and I only have a BSc in Psychology.

On the other hand the most recent studies do show some links between nicotine and cancer. Nicotine seems to cause new blood vessel growth which helps to feed tumours, and also inhibits some of the body's ability to destroy damaged cells. Exactly how serious this is when used independently from the other carcinogens in cigarette smoke is unclear but I'd say there is a slightly elevated risk people should be aware of, especially if you have history of cancer in your family. It also has negative effects on the cardiovascular system, blood pressure etc which everyone knows about.

Remember this is harm reduction, not harm prevention. It's probably wise to try and aim for 0nic when all's said and done, but then it's probably wise to do or not do a whole bunch of things but hell, we've got to live a little!

 

[rolygate]

Dr Laugesen, regarded as the physician with the best understanding of e-cigarettes, has said, "It is impossible for an e-cigarette to cause cancer". Sorry I can't give a link but a search should turn it up.

Anyone who drinks alcohol, tea or coffee is not in a position to criticise another's choice of 'pick-me-ups', unless hypocrisy is allowed and expected.

Nicotine is not currently regarded as a cancer risk - but it is impossible to state "Nicotine cannot cause cancer", since there are no long-term studies that prove this either way. And, until there is a situation where people routinely take nicotine without ever having smoked, it would be difficult to establish it either way. Nevertheless we should not be dismayed if eventually it is shown there is a small additional risk. Coffee and alcohol aren't good for some people, but they make a choice. Pretty much anything is safer than smoking, even Russian roulette.

 

[mokeyjoe]

Pretty much anything is safer than smoking, even Russian roulette.

I still wouldn't fancy playing Russian roulette 20 times a day...

 

[KayleePup]

He said the only way to quit smoking is through strength of mind and I should be looking for a way to quit vaping as well. "Even at 0mg nicotine?", I asked. He then asked me if I wouldn't rather be truly free of any habit or addiction, not just physiological ones but psychological ones as well. "There is no need for a pacifier once we truly know ourselves."

I am NOT giving up my 'pacifier'!!!!!!!!! I guess this guy has no idea what it is like to be obsessive/compulsive? Not only do I have smoking/not smoking to deal with but eating is an issue too. The whole thing with vaping is that it replaces something I know is harmful with something that, at least at the moment, seems to be less harmful. I guess we could all continue to smoke and then sue this guy for not helping us 'strengthen our minds' so that we could quit!

I get tired of people telling me what to do. Good or Bad, as long as I am not breaking any existing laws or harming another being, let me be. I live in a country that supposedly gives us 'freedom' but they want to legislate everything I do. Really, where is my freedom?

Just my opinion.
KayleePup

 

[VPDownunder]

Anything you enjoy a lot is an addiction ffs, everyone has a favorite food they enjoy a lot, a drink, a hobby whatever it may be they are all forms of addiction lol.

 

[floridamale]

I think next time I went to dinner there, I would arive smoking a fine Cuban Cobia eating a Corn Dog with a half empty bottle of Jack onder my arm and ask what type of fine red meat is on the Grill.

 

[Pheisty]

It's super that this doctor finds himself in the unique position of having no annoying habits whatsoever...you know, 'things he can live without but chooses not to', like biting his nails, picking his nose, or looking up porn on the internet. Oh, to be free of any human weak-mindedness!

The thing that makes these 'anti's' such creeps is the fact that they WANT us to suffer. We made a stupid decision (more than likely as an adolescent/teenager) to start smoking, and therefore we should have to go through the pain and agony of quitting our stinky habit borne of stupidity and youthful indiscretion. We should be punished for being so obtuse--even though the havoc we've wreaked on our bodies is punishment enough. They want us to SUFFER like the dirty, weak-minded addicts that we are. OMG, actually enjoying quitting smoking??? Just think of all the downtalking condescension that those Lance Armstrong/PHD types will miss out on!

 

[samsarajade]

I think next time I went to dinner there, I would arive smoking a fine Cuban Cobia eating a Corn Dog with a half empty bottle of Jack onder my arm and ask what type of fine red meat is on the Grill.

this truly made me LOL! I can just see it!

 

[Bozzlite]

Doctors don't always know everything. Obviously most of them are very intelligent and persevering otherwise they wouldn't have made it thru 4 years of college plus medical school plus internship. But they do make mistakes. I remember once back in the early 70's, my wife was not feeling well so she went to see our family physician. He told her she was pregnant. Boy, was he wrong! Turned out to be a case of the mumps. Have never figured that one out.

 

[wv2win]

I think next time I went to dinner there, I would arive smoking a fine Cuban Cobia eating a Corn Dog with a half empty bottle of Jack onder my arm and ask what type of fine red meat is on the Grill.

This also really made me laugh!! I would also add, that you should be dressed like Larry the Cable Guy, have a strong case of BO and belch before saying anything!

 

[SuZamme]

One thing to consider here is the age of Psych, Phd.
Thinking about the flavor of psychology they tried to indoctrinate me with back in the 60's/70's, I am not at all surprised that his view is very myopic and his "bedside manner" not at all about hearing what you have to say and supporting your decisions to improve your life from where it was before vaping.

You and Harriot deserve a much better evening of enjoyable company...perhaps you could invite a Smith-Victor and a vaping colleague of your own and have a rockus evening of vapor and ink.
By the way, you seemed very well behaved in the company of unenlightened beings. I raise my PV to you.

 

[rolygate]

Dinner parties are an environment where opinions are aired that have to be politely ignored. The hostess is normally offended if gunshots occur.

Russian roulette vs Smoking; ahh, yes, actually I didn't mean repeatedly playing RR. Just the once. Maybe even twice:-

Chance of death due to smoking: one in four, perhaps one in three.
Chance of death due to Russian roulette: one in six (Colt), one in five (Smith).
[One round in the chamber -- a Colt has a six-shot cylinder, a Smith holds five.]

So you could spin your Colt and drop the hammer twice, for about the same chance of dying early as continuing to smoke. But either might be a bad idea...

 

[Zelphie]

Keep in mind that a Doctorate degree=well educated. It does not always =intelligent. There is a difference.

On a side note, for some reason when I'm picturing this guy, my mind is automatically placing a pipe in his hand and an Old English accent.

LOL,Ya he sounds like a inflated jock strap from the psychoanayltic perpsective, who for some reason works in cross cultural psych. His words aside, as narrow as they usually are, the delivery is what is so insufferable.

 

[JohnReagan]

+1 for the word "opine"!

Ha! This made me LOL ... Cool ... I've been using that as a sort of catchphrase on YouTube for the past 4 years I don't even know how I thought it up!

 

[JohnReagan]

He may very well be privy to some studies in progress that are not yet published or public knowledge. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of any concession that vaping is less dangerous or less risky than smoking, given the absence of the 1,000's of other nasty chemicals associated with burning tobacco. Nor is there any quantifiable input to relate the relative risk.

Fact is, it sounds like the OP had a really unique opportunity to get some professional opinions in a casual dinner conversation. Of course the risk of that is that the opinions offered may not be what you (or we) want to hear. If anything, it tells me how some professionals are digging deep into studies that prove their own assumptions and aren't necessarily open to comparative analysis.

The other interesting thing is that the professionals offering these opinions either have never experienced smoking or nicotine addiction first hand, or they conquered it and think their way is the only best way. I'm sure the PhDs and MDs that invented the nicotine patch or Wellbutrin will always say those are the best approaches to smoking cessation.

OP: Nice typewriter. I'm also a fan of old-tech. My house is equipped with Western Electric model 500 phones. They have actual bells that ring and it's fun to tease anyone under 30 years old with a phone that has a dial and no buttons. I also have a 1940's era adding machine with the buttons in columns. One of these days I'll get it running or those that inherit my empire will put it in a landfill with the rest of my stuff.

It was indeed a unique opportunity and I feel the age of the physicians plays a role here, as someone posted. My doctor was much more flexible and understanding. Personality plays a factor too, there's always someone that's an a**h****.

This is a very well thought out comment. Thanks about the typewriter. I think I'm retro in every way ... vinyl, wrist watches, typewriters, cameras, and yes phones too! Very cool on that adding machine. Don't forget me in your inheritance if I'm still alive; it sure won't go to a landfill!

 

[Kobudo]

Having dated a few psychologists, I can say that they entered the field more interested in self-examination (i.e. knowing they have problems) than with the more altruistic intentions of helping others. I'm not saying this is true of all psychologists, but the man you described certainly falls into this group. It would be interesting to follow him around for a while and learn more about his personal vices and demons...

 

[JohnReagan]

To all who posted: Thanks for making it this far. It's great to see how the back and forth can flow and actually helps me in my quest to spread the news of what may just possibly save or extend my life. Coming from 4 years of uploading videos on YouTube and interacting, with people's 30 second attention span I'm amazed people made it this far. "People will read again!" What a relief.

One thing to consider here is the age of Psych, Phd.
Thinking about the flavor of psychology they tried to indoctrinate me with back in the 60's/70's, I am not at all surprised that his view is very myopic and his "bedside manner" not at all about hearing what you have to say and supporting your decisions to improve your life from where it was before vaping.

You and Harriot deserve a much better evening of enjoyable company...perhaps you could invite a Smith-Victor and a vaping colleague of your own and have a rockus evening of vapor and ink.
By the way, you seemed very well behaved in the company of unenlightened beings. I raise my PV to you.

SuZamme, you're on to something big here. Their age. Although Eastern thinking and Buddhism are still the vogue today for a healthier lifestyle, these doctors were schooled at a time when obsolete experimental therapies like "Primal Scream Therapy" was in. They are not Freudians, but disciples of the 60's - as you say - when all sorts of insane options were available to them.

Boy, I HATE people who make these kind of statements!

These statements only hold water if you assume that all human being are equal, physically and psychologically, and there's no such thing as addiction. To anyone who's ever been addicted to alcohol, drugs, nicotine, caffeine, etc, telling them that willpower is the answer is the most useless thing you can say. It does NOT address the problem. All it does it make the person feel small by implying they're not 'strong enough' to overcome their addiction.

No drugs counseller worth their salt would ever dream of telling an addict to try sheer willpower. And while we smokers aren't at that level of addiction, it's really only a matter of degree.

The next time you meet a clown like that, try pointing out to him that a large percentage of vapers have already tried every method under the sun, from brute force to Chantix, et al, with little or no results. Whereas vaping appears to have an (anecdotal) success rate of 60-80%.

Thanks for posting this. It confirms how far we still have to go with some members the medical profession.

mac

I'll drink to that!

Thank you for posting this. This attitude is the very same on Ive been encountering in my 30 year career as a psych client. Perheps people need to free themselves from the dependence of food, shelter, and oxygen as well. Life is to short to smoke, but its WAy to short not to enjoy it with a vape, or something with an element of uncertain pleasure.
I am now studying psychology, I want to know why psychologists get brainwashed so easily! lol *irony*

I really wanted to share this Zelphie. I can feel the 'brainwashing' that night with the psychologist. Thanks for reading!

Meh. People like to promote their way as the only way. "Strength of mind" means diddly against addiction - maybe a heavy dose of fear will help, but...there's a reason we have cessation aids....and a reason why PV's work so bloody well.

To the nicotine point - studying causation NRT-->cancer without subjecting never-smokers randomly to NRT/placebo AND controlling for ridiculous numbers of environmental factors is pretty bunk. Any monkey will likely find statistically significant relationships between NRT and cancer, because NRT users smoked cigarettes. Smokers are probably generally less risk averse than non-smokers all else equal, so confounding cancer-causing factors are a potential concern.

Anyway, this was a psychologist not an oncologist.

That is the reason why PVs work so well. Indeed, he's not an oncologist - but loves to act like one. And in a very condescending way I might add.

 

[kristin]

maybe from someone like Vocalek who writes very well - or something straight from Casaa themselves.

Just FYI - Vocalek is Elaine Keller - CASAA's VP, so she is "CASAA themselves" in a lot of ways, lol! (I'm also on CASAA's board of directors.)

I'm sure the nicotine-causes-cancer statement came from a recent study and press release that linked nicotine and cancer - but only very distantly. The study actually said nicotine could exacerbate pre-existing condition, but the media warped the facts again.

Anything you enjoy a lot is an addiction ffs, everyone has a favorite food they enjoy a lot, a drink, a hobby whatever it may be they are all forms of addiction lol.

Yes, this idea that all addictions are bad is a relatively new concept - with the advent of narcotic addictions and the havoc they cause on addicts' lives. Before that, addiction simply meant something you couldn't live without - which could be chocolate, golf, model trains - things that are calming, help us think, relieve stress, etc are POSITIVE addictions. Even that doctor's reliance on "using his mind" is a form of addiction. Does he use meditation? Yoga? Therapy? If he feels stressed and unbalanced without it, it's an addiction.

What about sex? We don't need it to survive beyond procreation. It's a positive addiction for most humans. I doubt the good doctor would expect us to give THAT addiction up.

So the tenant that addictions or crutches are unnatural is a complete falsehood used to further personal ideologies.