20700 mods

[nalo_b]

China certainly have the machines, materials and experience to put out top not quality mods (I believe the VaperzClouds are fully chinese).

But in the race to the CHEAPEST, you go cutting as much as possible design? no time lets just copy (save again for a few companies like VaperzClouds, Innokin, joyetech) etc, QA/QC COST MONEY AND TIME, manufacturing has a built-in margin of error like most every other process in the world, it costs money to put out a device that consistently is within tolerances

Being able to put quality out doesnt not mean that they are, in general, doing so

Not quite following you. I understand that it takes money to design and such but it also takes money to make a 1 to 1 copy of something. I don't think money is an issue. They also don't need to do that much R&D as they have made countless clones and should know by now what makes a good mod.
I know that China has quality products. I have a vaperzcloud 11:11 and I believe subohm innovations is made in China too and many other products are manufactured there. They have the tolerances down. Just seems like they could be a major player in the mech mod industry, but seems like they are happy just where they are

 

[Bad Ninja]

China certainly have the machines, materials and experience to put out top not quality mods (I believe the VaperzClouds are fully chinese).

But in the race to the CHEAPEST, you go cutting as much as possible design? no time lets just copy (save again for a few companies like VaperzClouds, Innokin, joyetech) etc, QA/QC COST MONEY AND TIME, manufacturing has a built-in margin of error like most every other process in the world, it costs money to put out a device that consistently is within tolerances

Being able to put quality out doesnt not mean that they are, in general, doing so

Don't try to apply western business models to Chinese manufacturing.
It's a different ballgame when the government subsidizes the entire industry.

 

[dhomes]

Not quite following you. I understand that it takes money to design and such but it also takes money to make a 1 to 1 copy of something. I don't think money is an issue. They also don't need to do that much R&D as they have made countless clones and should know by now what makes a good mod.
I know that China has quality products. I have a vaperzcloud 11:11 and I believe subohm innovations is made in China too and many other products are manufactured there. They have the tolerances down. Just seems like they could be a major player in the mech mod industry, but seems like they are happy just where they are

again, dont want to come across like I'm trashing the chinese or being a snob, I have both originals and clones, my clones though do tend to disappoint me a lot more often:

- vaperzcloud, subohm, dotmot, joyetech, innokin, smok, and countless other are manufactured in china, based on original design, and with high qa/qc standards (looking forward to getting a 11:11 myself)

- other products created in volume cost a lot less, per unit, when manufactured in volume and targeting a market that is more concerned with cheap than quality (not that it wont matter, but you can even see people in fasttech forums complaining about a SXK kennedy costing $15 when other generic ones costs 9), those are the ones where quality takes backstage to price.

- the chinese have all and the same materials as americans (I'm neight btw, im from south america), but different grades of copper or brass cost, internationally, a different amount per ton, the lower grades tend to be used in the cheaper ones (try one of the many brass rogue mods in fasttech and compared to the original, that certainly is not naval brass)

yes, you can get a clone mod that is quality, I got a fuhattan and a 20700 admiral that, other than being clearkoted, is pretty decent actually (people would say it's great, i just dont like the switch of the original, find it too stiff)

you can also go buy a chinese 'Fendi' bag for your wife that is basically undistinguishable from an original. last time i checked they called it counterfeit. why is this not the case for other products?

I'm not saying dont buy clones, but original designs, bought from the original designer, would most likely give a lot more of a better experience (& support) than a clone.

back to the original question, 20700 clone that are decent:

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?qtc_tLabels1=LW497625966CN got one myself, dont use it much though as the switch is to stiff for my personal likeing, but works well

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10035557/7765500-xxx-styled-18650-mechanical-mod seems to get good reviews, i just find the design too goofy for my liking (although I'd buy an 11:11)

the one 20700 i keep using is the kennedy roundhouse 20700 original I've got. I like the quality and lifetime support from Kennedy vapors (they fixed, free of charge, a two year old Ruby mod for me and cerakoted it for $30, for example)

 

[dhomes]

Not quite following you. I understand that it takes money to design and such but it also takes money to make a 1 to 1 copy of something. I don't think money is an issue. They also don't need to do that much R&D as they have made countless clones and should know by now what makes a good mod.
I know that China has quality products. I have a vaperzcloud 11:11 and I believe subohm innovations is made in China too and many other products are manufactured there. They have the tolerances down. Just seems like they could be a major player in the mech mod industry, but seems like they are happy just where they are

again, dont want to come across like I'm trashing the chinese or being a snob, I have both originals and clones, my clones though do tend to disappoint me a lot more often:

- vaperzcloud, subohm, dotmot, joyetech, innokin, smok, and countless other are manufactured in china, based on original design, and with high qa/qc standards (looking forward to getting a 11:11 myself)

- other products created in volume cost a lot less, per unit, when manufactured in volume and targeting a market that is more concerned with cheap than quality (not that it wont matter, but you can even see people in fasttech forums complaining about a SXK kennedy costing $15 when other generic ones costs 9), those are the ones where quality takes backstage to price.

- the chinese have all and the same materials as americans (I'm neight btw, im from south america), but different grades of copper or brass cost, internationally, a different amount per ton, the lower grades tend to be used in the cheaper ones (try one of the many brass rogue mods in fasttech and compared to the original, that certainly is not naval brass)

yes, you can get a clone mod that is quality, I got a fuhattan and a 20700 admiral that, other than being clearkoted, is pretty decent actually (people would say it's great, i just dont like the switch of the original, find it too stiff)

you can also go buy a chinese 'Fendi' bag for your wife that is basically undistinguishable from an original. last time i checked they called it counterfeit. why is this not the case for other products?

I'm not saying dont buy clones, but original designs, bought from the original designer, would most likely give a lot more of a better experience (& support) than a clone.

back to the original question, 20700 clone that are decent:

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?qtc_tLabels1=LW497625966CN got one myself, dont use it much though as the switch is to stiff for my personal likeing, but works well

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10035557/7765500-xxx-styled-18650-mechanical-mod seems to get good reviews, i just find the design too goofy for my liking (although I'd buy an 11:11)

the one 20700 i keep using is the kennedy roundhouse 20700 original I've got. I like the quality and lifetime support from Kennedy vapors (they fixed, free of charge, a two year old Ruby mod for me and cerakoted it for $30, for example)

 

[Bad Ninja]

- the chinese have all and the same materials as americans (I'm neight btw, im from south america), but different grades of copper or brass cost, internationally, a different amount per ton, the lower grades tend to be used in the cheaper ones (try one of the many brass rogue mods in fasttech and compared to the original, that certainly is not naval brass)

Thats alot of text.

Before I rebutt, Im a retired machinist.
I have some professional knowledge of metal manufacturing.

Most of what you posted isnt accurate at all.
All the raw materials used in authentic mods ( brass, copper, stainless steel, ect) comes from China.
None of it is expensive. Its cheap soft metal.
Cutting simple metric threads or a logo on a soft metal tube doesn't take a master craftsman.
There is no R&D cost on a damn mech mod.
Its a flashlight and a simple horn switch.
It was designed 100+ years ago.
Lets be honest here.


Most authentics cost 10x what their cloned counterparts cost.
None are 10x the quality.

Authentics are great examples of a modders work, but the high price isnt a reflection of quality.
It never has been.

 

[nalo_b]

Thats alot of text.

Before I rebutt, Im a retired machinist.
I have some professional knowledge of metal manufacturing.

Most of what you posted isnt accurate at all.
All the raw materials used in authentic mods ( brass, copper, stainless steel, ect) comes from China.
None of it is expensive. Its cheap soft metal.
Cutting simple metric threads or a logo on a soft metal tube doesn't take a master craftsman.
There is no R&D cost on a damn mech mod.
Its a flashlight and a simple horn switch.
It was designed 100+ years ago.
Lets be honest here.


Most authentics cost 10x what their cloned counterparts cost.
None are 10x the quality.

Authentics are great examples of a modders work, but the high price isnt a reflection of quality.
It never has been.

Exactly bad ninja. I buy authentic to support the makers but I know that it cost pennies in materials. I only had authentics until recently. I'm no machinist or anything but back in 2009-2010 I made a few mechs those where the first mechs I ever used. Literally did no machining on those either just put caps on scrap copper pipes I got from work and used a spring, 510 connector and I believe a paper clip and set screw. Lol

I also have no regrets buying an authentic either. But I sure would be ...... if I spent $100+ and had a subpar quality product.
Also not trying to throw fuel in the fire. I just believe that China could really corner the market if they really applied themselves clones for $14 imagine if they made original solid mechs for that price. I know I'd rock them. Lol

 

[nalo_b]

This is one of the only videos I have of the 2 mods I made a while back. Made this video for my brother who's on another island here in Hawaii that's why I didn't bother to put a shirt on. Lol

Hope it doesn't break any rules...

 

[dhomes]

Thats alot of text.

Before I rebutt, Im a retired machinist.
I have some professional knowledge of metal manufacturing.

Most of what you posted isnt accurate at all.
All the raw materials used in authentic mods ( brass, copper, stainless steel, ect) comes from China.
None of it is expensive. Its cheap soft metal.
Cutting simple metric threads or a logo on a soft metal tube doesn't take a master craftsman.
There is no R&D cost on a damn mech mod.
Its a flashlight and a simple horn switch.
It was designed 100+ years ago.
Lets be honest here.


Most authentics cost 10x what their cloned counterparts cost.
None are 10x the quality.

Authentics are great examples of a modders work, but the high price isnt a reflection of quality.
It never has been.

I'm not trying to win an argument with you Ninja. You buy your clones, I buy my share of both. My experience ad opinion is different than yours and that's cool.

I'll keep 'wasting' my money of originals whenever feasible and be happy doing so.

dont know what we are still arguing about it, there ARE some decent clones out there, there are some real crappy ones.

the OG asked for a decent 20700 clone and I do have one, an Admiral off fasttech. Performs well, I just dont like the stiffness on the switch (on both the clone admiral and original broadside)

only statement that is partially wrong:

Most authentics cost 10x what their cloned counterparts cost.
None are 10x the quality.

well, not if you look around, VapeAmp is selling their Rigs V2 right now for $65 + 25% discount in their summer sale. I've got also a Aria Oros a few month back for $50 during a sale. KennedyVapors does 25% often, etc

 

[Bad Ninja]

I'm not trying to win an argument with you Ninja. You buy your clones, I buy my share of both. My experience ad opinion is different than yours and that's cool.

I'll keep 'wasting' my money of originals whenever feasible and be happy doing so.

dont know what we are still arguing about it, there ARE some decent clones out there, there are some real crappy ones.

the OG asked for a decent 20700 clone and I do have one, an Admiral off fasttech. Performs well, I just dont like the stiffness on the switch (on both the clone admiral and original broadside)

only statement that is partially wrong:


well, not if you look around, VapeAmp is selling their Rigs V2 right now for $65 + 25% discount in their summer sale. I've got also a Aria Oros a few month back for $50 during a sale. KennedyVapors does 25% often, etc

Here's where it gets funny:
I agree with some of this. There are good and bad authentics and clones.
I have lots of authentics and clones.

I actually have the kindbright 20700. Broadside in Ti.
Hate the switch.
That O ring clutch catastrophy is awful, and the mod isnt impressive.

Stop taking this personally.
No one said buying authentics is "wasting money."
None of my purchases were wasted money. (Footoon Origen mod however, was total crap.).
I said expecting a mythical level of quality isnt logical if you have all the facts and understand the numbers, and that is not why most of us buy authentics.

 

[dhomes]

Here's where it gets funny:
I agree with some of this. There are good and bad authentics and clones.
I have lots of authentics and clones.

I actually have the kindbright 20700. Broadside in Ti.
Hate the switch.
That O ring clutch catastrophy is awful, and the mod isnt impressive.

Stop taking this personally.
No one said buying authentics is "wasting money."
None of my purchases were wasted money. (Footoon Origen mod however, was total crap.).
I said expecting a mythical level of quality isnt logical if you have all the facts and understand the numbers, and that is not why most of us buy authentics.

I'm not taking it personally, I'm neither american nor chinese no run a business on this

Yes, a chinese mod and an american mod manufactured under the same standard wont make a difference, i argue that most of often that not, that is not the case in the chinese

The one gray area with a CLONE (not talking about an original chinese mod, no issue with them) is that the chinese take a design that they did not come up with, and end up stamping it with branding / logos that is also not theirs.

For about every other product that is called counterfeiting, and I have seen police in new orleans take people to jail over it (that was the Fendi bag reference above)

But you dont see the same when at an american vape shop sells you all those clones, why is that the case?

BTW, that same shop told me that they had to take out all their Praxis mods from sale because every single one sold people would come back complaining the button got stuck while firing, my original one has never done so and is, 2 years after use, my favorite 22mm mod.

 

[Outcast]

Here's where it gets funny:
I agree with some of this. There are good and bad authentics and clones.
I have lots of authentics and clones.

I actually have the kindbright 20700. Broadside in Ti.
Hate the switch.
That O ring clutch catastrophy is awful, and the mod isnt impressive.

Stop taking this personally.
No one said buying authentics is "wasting money."
None of my purchases were wasted money. (Footoon Origen mod however, was total crap.).
I said expecting a mythical level of quality isnt logical if you have all the facts and understand the numbers, and that is not why most of us buy authentics.

I got the Ti broadside as well just don't like it ended getting 60$ for it I like the copper and the brass ones good hitting mods but the Ti had a noticeable difference the only other on I did not like was the ss subzero x that I sold off as well but love my copper but I don't trust the switch I have had them fire [emoji91] buy it self or stay firing after I use them I have some 11:11 coming that have the v2 switch that I'm excited for


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bad Ninja]

I'm not taking it personally, I'm neither american nor chinese no run a business on this

Yes, a chinese mod and an american mod manufactured under the same standard wont make a difference, i argue that most of often that not, that is not the case in the chinese

The one gray area with a CLONE (not talking about an original chinese mod, no issue with them) is that the chinese take a design that they did not come up with, and end up stamping it with branding / logos that is also not theirs.

For about every other product that is called counterfeiting, and I have seen police in new orleans take people to jail over it (that was the Fendi bag reference above)

But you dont see the same when at an american vape shop sells you all those clones, why is that the case?

BTW, that same shop told me that they had to take out all their Praxis mods from sale because every single one sold people would come back complaining the button got stuck while firing, my original one has never done so and is, 2 years after use, my favorite 22mm mod.

The reason its NOT counterfeiting is because the authentic modders dont own the design.
It's a flashlight with a momentary switch, and they cannot get a utility patent or design patent on it.
No one can.
It's over 100 years old and not their design.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Just an observation:
Before I drop $150 + on a device, I find out everything I can find out about it. Lots of reviews, read the threads....all the research I can do before clicking 'buy'. I am rarely disappointed when the device arrives. On occasion, I went in blind to make sure I got something and got burned with a crappy device (ahem...Vapor Flask Squonk...ahem...)

On the other hand...If I buy a clone for whatever reason, I just buy it. There's companies I like better than others...I'll stick with SXK or YFTK...Coppervape.... but, not a ton of research. Generally, it's a $20 investment. I really don't worry to much about it.

So, of course I've had more crappy clones than crappy authentics....I'm not as careful with the purchase.

That being said, the stuff coming out of China these days is extremely impressive.

 

[nalo_b]

I got the Ti broadside as well just don't like it ended getting 60$ for it I like the copper and the brass ones good hitting mods but the Ti had a noticeable difference the only other on I did not like was the ss subzero x that I sold off as well but love my copper but I don't trust the switch I have had them fire [emoji91] buy it self or stay firing after I use them I have some 11:11 coming that have the v2 switch that I'm excited for


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you take the switch apart and sand the burs? The subzeroX clone I'm finding gives me problems a few times a day but I use it mainly for when I'm at work.

I got the 11:11 and mini Buddha back when they had their sale for about the same price as the mod itself. I think you'll like it. It does feel,more comfortable in hand(for me anyways). I got big hands and the xxx sits way higher in my hand and is really top heavy. I seen that people where complaining about their ceracoting coming off though.

 

[williamclarkonet]

Which 20700 mod would everyone recommend to get 1st for the best experience

 

[dhomes]

The reason its NOT counterfeiting is because the authentic modders dont own the design.
It's a flashlight with a momentary switch, and they cannot get a utility patent or design patent on it.
No one can.
It's over 100 years old and not their design.

the logos too? i know most are not trademarks but it's still stealing i'd say

 

[dhomes]

Which 20700 mod would everyone recommend to get 1st for the best experience

20700 Roundhouse V2 is what I have and prefer. I just dont like the switch on the broadside / admiral. Have heard the VaperzCloudz (XXX & 11:11) are great but dont have either.

 

[hazozita]

Which 20700 mod would everyone recommend to get 1st for the best experience

I was torn between the 20700 Roundhouse and the XXX, and went for the Roundhouse mainly since they had a one day 25% off sale earlier this week. Got it in brass and, while I’ve only had it for 2 days, so far have been very pleased with it. Love the clean, simple look, nice machining, adjustable throw and no-tool button disassembly. And have been really liking the 20700 battery performance/longevity.

Definitely going to pick up a few more 20700 mechs.

 

[Bad Ninja]

the logos too? i know most are not trademarks but it's still stealing i'd say

You need to register the artwork and obtain a patent or trademark first.
To do that, you must establish ownership.


Most authentic modders (not all but most) dont even have a legitimate business lisc, business address, legal business contact info, insurance, etc...
They cannot obtain a patent or trademark.

In essence, they have a flawed business model and operate on the fringe of legality.
Pre orders, facebook only sales, etc...

These things do not inspire confidence in their quality control.

This is also not how to run a business.

 

[Bad Ninja]

I was torn between the 20700 Roundhouse and the XXX, and went for the Roundhouse mainly since they had a one day 25% off sale earlier this week. Got it in brass and, while I’ve only had it for 2 days, so far have been very pleased with it. Love the clean, simple look, nice machining, adjustable throw and no-tool button disassembly. And have been really liking the 20700 battery performance/longevity.

Definitely going to pick up a few more 20700 mechs.

No-tool disassembly is a big plus for me.