3 questions about nicotine-salt based liquids

[Letitia]

AFAIR and as i know by my own experience, this would not help because of nicotinic acid (freebase) is slowly absorbed, slowly penetrates the blood (relatively to nicotine salt). Higher concentrations may accelerate this process a bit, but they lead to prolonged overdose. With full lunges of nicotine, but still low level in blood, you continue and continue vaping - i know this situation.

We absorb vapor better through mucus membranes than through the lungs. You have to keep in mind vapor does not have the additives that cigarettes do, those additives are what makes smoking so satisfying. There's also something about vapor molecules being larger therefore making the lung alveoli less receptive.

 

[virm]

i am lowering my dependency on salts.. it is more expensive, there are some uncertain stuff abt it mentioned by vapers that they might cause lung pain or something, i am generally lowering nic and want to fight the craving of quick satisfaction, DL is usually yummier and i happened to be well stocked on freebase because of a local sale...

i am one of those that felt that salts give a more immediate satisfaction... couldn't quit without them.
i also couldn't handle DLing anything above 3mg freebase (maybe i can reach 6 if it's 30-40watts or something, haven't tried), nor could i handle 12mg freebase in a pod. haven't tried high freebase on a proper MTL tank though.

so i couldn't have quit without the salts. but i can live without them now.

 

[ppeeble]

I don't know if it's just me but for years now i've heard the phrase 'vape... until the craving goes'.
Never really understood that because, in my experience, the craving doesn't go unless you've vaped enough to feel sick. I just vape for about double the length of time that a cigarette lasted. No feelings of relief, no switch in my brain or flashing lights, no contentment. Nothing.
It was the same when i smoked.
OP - nicotine in solution is just nicotine regardless of whether acid has been added to it. Treat salts exactly the same as regular and concentrate on the nicotine strength, carrier proportions and wattage. Everything else is bunkum

 

[Max Brown]

We absorb vapor better through mucus membranes than through the lungs. You have to keep in mind vapor does not have the additives that cigarettes do, those additives are what makes smoking so satisfying. There's also something about vapor molecules being larger therefore making the lung alveoli less receptive.

Thank you for info, but it seems, my poor English does not allow me to understand right the following:

There's also something about vapor molecules being larger therefore making the lung alveoli less receptive.

Molecules? Maybe you mean "droplets"? I know, glycerin and propyleneglycol are fairly simple substances, and even nicotinic acid is. Their molecules cannot be large, in any case they are much smaller than the molecules of composite organic substances contained in tobacco smoke.

 

[vaper1960]

Lots of good answers/advice so far. I'm trying to have different strength juices in different tanks so I can vape high nic in the morning (the hardest part of the day for me... confession, I still smoke a cig first thing in the morning) then medium nic all day and late in the evening even lower nic (it keeps me awake if I vape too much before bed)
Hey, I'm working on a similar coil... vertical spiral cone (going to mount it in a RDA that has the raised center post) Just not sure how I will wick it (I'll figure that out when I get the RDA... it's an older one on clearance for $6 and have to order from china) Might be awhile, but I will post pics when done.

 

[vaper1960]

Here's the RDA:
Youde IGO-W8 Drip Atomizer with Airflow Control
Look at the build deck image.

 

[Letitia]

Thank you for info, but it seems, my poor English does not allow me to understand right the following:
Molecules? Maybe you mean "droplets"? I know, glycerin and propyleneglycol are fairly simple substances, and even nicotinic acid is. Their molecules cannot be large, in any case they are much smaller than the molecules of composite organic substances contained in tobacco smoke.

I literally mean size of molecules. The additives in combustible tobacco are designed to excel attaching to our lungs alveoli, vapor is not. If you want a scientific explanation just look it up.

 

[Max Brown]

Might be awhile, but I will post pics when done.

It seems that the air comes from the holes of the cylinder, and not from below. A vertical coil may be inapplicable or useless here. And I still can’t understand at all where is the tank where the liquid is poured.
P.S.:
...I understand, this is "drip", not tank. And it is possible to use vertical coil here, but it will be a strange coil
1. Unscrew and return into the box 2 of the 4 bolts (this means 2 of the 3 lower bolts). They will not be needed.
2. Don something round on the center pin. For example, a mouthpiece (if possible).
3. Fasten 1 end of the long wire at the bottom with a bolt using any of the 3 holes at the bottom.
4. Wrap the wire around what is don on the center pin to have a wide spiral. The number of turns is best determined empirically, it will depend on the thickness and material of the wire.
5. While holding the spiral in place, remove from the pin what was worn on it.
6. Bend the wire so that it makes contact with the center pin, cut, insert and fasten in the hole.
7. Burn the spiral if necessary and if possible (depending on the material).
8. Now cram more cotton into (not outside!) this vertical coil. And fill this cotton with liquid.
0. The principle: more coil diameter - more wire - more evaporating surface and more resistance - less wattage, less temperature, more vapour.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

AFAIR and as i know by my own experience,

Welcome to ECF, Max Brown.

When I first started vaping, I felt the need for a higher nic level eliquid than I use now. BTW, nic-salts weren't invented/used (in vaping anyway) yet.. After a few months or so, I found the free base e-liquid nicotine level I was using at the time to be too high, so I decreased the nic level and still get the preferred results. I still use the same 'vape process', which is comparable to smoking a pipe or cigar. I fill my mouth and exhale thru my nose. So I would agree with Letitia's post (and maybe others) about the 'nicotine/mucous membrane' thing, which isn't just an opinion, but fact. Anyway, I believe the nic level decrease on my part was because of the 'cigarette tar' decrease.

I'm doing a few different tasks right now and losing my train of thought, while trying to make this post understandable to you. Let me know if there is something I need to explain differently.

 

[Max Brown]

I'm doing a few different tasks right now and losing my train of thought, while trying to make this post understandable to you. Let me know if there is something I need to explain differently.

Basically, everything about nicotine salts is already clear to me (with the exception of the censored 3rd question). It would be interesting to know how fast (exactly: in secunds) morning saturation occurs compared to a tobacco cigarette, and is it true that the dependence of the saturation rate on the type of nicotine (is it acid or salt) is stronger than on concentration (within reasonable limits).
I understand that this can be an individual feature of each person. Therefore, no personal experience will be superfluous (and no, I believe what the marketers write in the articles, no more than i trust russian press) ;-)

 

[Max Brown]

I literally mean size of molecules. [...] If you want a scientific explanation just look it up.

Where?

 

[smacuser]

I think what is meant is that cigarettes contain other chemicals, like salt peter, that allows the nicotine to penetrate the lungs quicker; like what salt nic is now able to do. Regular nic will just lie onto the lungs membrane until it's eventually absorbed.

 

[Letitia]

Where?

Start here, found it on page 1 of a simple google search for Nicotine absorption.
Nicotine and How Your Body Absorbs It

 

[Max Brown]

Start here, found it on page 1 of a simple google search for Nicotine absorption.
Nicotine and How Your Body Absorbs It

Q.E.D.: [Ctrl]+[F],"molecu" = "0 matches".
But: "It’s very difficult to accurately compare intake from smoking and vaping. One reason is the size of the individual particles. Smoke particles are one micron in size – that’s 1/1000th of a millimetre. And your lungs have millions of tiny air sacs called Alveoli, which easily absorb these tiny smoke particles.
There are also currently 600 approved additives in cigarettes that are designed to speed up nicotine absorption.
In comparison, vapour has larger particles which don’t penetrate as deeply."
Particles, Letitia, not molecules. It means droplets.

 

[Letitia]

If you look into it further you will find studies breaking it down to molecules. I've read them and have no desire to dig into it again. Point is you absorb nic from vapor more efficiently through your mucus membranes in your nose and mouth. If you believe you know the answer why ask the question to begin with?

 

[smacuser]

 

[NealBJr]

Basically, everything about nicotine salts is already clear to me (with the exception of the censored 3rd question). It would be interesting to know how fast (exactly: in secunds) morning saturation occurs compared to a tobacco cigarette, and is it true that the dependence of the saturation rate on the type of nicotine (is it acid or salt) is stronger than on concentration (within reasonable limits).
I understand that this can be an individual feature of each person. Therefore, no personal experience will be superfluous (and no, I believe what the marketers write in the articles, no more than i trust russian press) ;-)

When you're talking about nicotine absorption rate, there is no clear answer that can be had... there are just too many variables to say that X is the reason. No matter if it's nic salts, freebase nic, or smoke, there are so many variables that there can not be a clear and decisive answer. You have to take into account the densities of the vapor, how deep you inhale, how long you inhale, the nicotine ratio of the juice, the PH of the juice, the condition of the lungs, the body mass, the current state of the blood, the circulatory system state, and so on... I would not even begin to try and come up with an answer...there is none. individual results will vary.

It's like saying "will throwing a white rock into water make a bigger splash than throwing a green rock into water?"...you can analyze it all you want, but there are so many variables that you cannot answer white or green. It is the manipulation of information on research that has kept the tobacco companies alive for so long and it's confused the general public.

As far as your questions go... Nicotine salts and "regular (AKA freebase)" nicotine still contain nicotine. If you inhale a 24mg nic salt vs 24mg freebase nicotine on a .7 ohm coil running at 25 watts, the absorption rate will be so close, it's not worth asking which one is more.
What does matter is the "effect" of the nicotine. You feel the freebase nicotine more than the nicotine salts. That will affect how you vape that juice. If you run a 24mg freebase nicotine at 25 watts, you will feel it quite severely, so you'll take smaller puffs. With nicotine salts, you won't feel it as much, so you might take a bit longer puff and get more nicotine. Cigarette companies know similar results and released some "lights"...but in reality, people would alter the way they smoke, so they actually ended up getting as much nicotine than regulars.