3 X 18350's for DNA 200?

[footbag]

I've been wondering something. The big issue with a triple 18650 dna 200 mod is the size. But, you need the minimum voltage. You can do it with 2 batteries(reduced wattage), but I'm wondering if it could be done with 18350's?

If it's possible, you should be able to get about 1.5x the Wh of the typical 900Mah Lipo.

Why aren't we seeing many 3x18350's? Am I missing something? They seem to have pretty good energy density compared to the LiPo's. The only thing is I haven't used an 18350 in years. Is the capacity and amperage there?

I would bet that you can fit 3x18350's in almost any case.

 

[Liskrig]

I remember SMY had 3x 18650 configuration with the God Box line. Those were big, but not unruly. I'd love a DNA200 device, but I never plan on vaping at 200w and I would rather have the mAh stamina from 18650s than the potential power in the 900mAh li-po.

(Post Notice: I'm stupid. I could very well be wrong with the above stated.)

 

[Rockwell222]

I'm not sure the exact numbers but I'm pretty sure there isn't enough voltage/amperage to make that work. About a month ago I saw some people talking about it and how it just isn't possible. I could be wrong and I'm sure some other people will have more info soon. I think it's better going with a dual 18650 and the size factor would be sorta close to 3 18350's.

 

[Rossum]

For "stamina" you need to think in terms of watt-hours, not mAh. A 900 mAh 11.1V lipo has half again the watt-hours that a single 1800 mAh 18650 does.

 

[footbag]

OK. It looks like the safe amperage limits for the 18350's would be exceeded in this configuration. Too bad. I guess I'll go with a 18650x2 when they come out.

 

[retird]

OK. It looks like the safe amperage limits for the 18350's would be exceeded in this configuration. Too bad. I guess I'll go with a 18650x2 when they come out.

Example of just one 2-cell 18650, 133 watt DNA:

 

[footbag]

Example of just one 2-cell 18650, 133 watt DNA:

Thank for sharing. I knew about the boxer, but I don't like the side by side batteries. Same reason I'm reluctant about the Reuleaux.

I thought I had a breakthrough with the 18350's. Maybe not.

 

[Croak]

For "stamina" you need to think in terms of watt-hours, not mAh. A 900 mAh 11.1V lipo has half again the watt-hours that a single 1800 mAh 18650 does.

Thing is, hardly anyone using a regulated device is using a 1800mAh battery these days. So, a 900mAh 3S LiPo is just barely better in terms of watt hours than a 2500mAh single 18650, and not as good as a single 3000mAh like the LG HG2.

Single 18650, 2500mAh. 3.7v nominal voltage. 2500*3.7/1000 = 9.25 watt hours

Single 18650, 3000mAh. 3.7v nominal voltage. 3000*3.7/1000 = 11.1 watt hours

Lipo 3S, 900mAh, 11.1v nominal voltage. 900*11.1/1000 =9.99 watt hours

 

[Spirometry]

Thing is, hardly anyone using a regulated device is using a 1800mAh battery these days. So, a 900mAh 3S LiPo is just barely better in terms of watt hours than a 2500mAh single 18650, and not as good as a single 3000mAh like the LG HG2.

Single 18650, 2500mAh. 3.7v nominal voltage. 2500*3.7/1000 = 9.25 watt hours

Single 18650, 3000mAh. 3.7v nominal voltage. 3000*3.7/1000 = 11.1 watt hours

Lipo 3S, 900mAh, 11.1v nominal voltage. 900*11.1/1000 =9.99 watt hours

The nominal Wh rating will just give you a general idea of capacity. Put it under a heavy load and the fullymax 900mAh will outlast the HG2.

FullyMax 30C/27A 10Wh 900mAh 3S LiPo (for DNA200) Bench Test Results...10Wh/20A , damaged at 25A

 

[Carnage9270]

The nominal Wh rating will just give you a general idea of capacity. Put it under a heavy load and the fullymax 900mAh will outlast the HG2.

FullyMax 30C/27A 10Wh 900mAh 3S LiPo (for DNA200) Bench Test Results...10Wh/20A , damaged at 25A

Exactly. The reason they went with 3 cell lipos is because they can handle high amp drains required by the DNA 200 at really high settings. Even 3 18650's wont keep up with a high drain 3 cell lipo at really high amps. Most people don't set their mods that high, but manufacturers cover their asses and make sure the battery doesn't blow sky high by putting a lipo in there that can handle the max amps the DNA can be set to.

 

[Mooch]

Thing is, hardly anyone using a regulated device is using a 1800mAh battery these days. So, a 900mAh 3S LiPo is just barely better in terms of watt hours than a 2500mAh single 18650, and not as good as a single 3000mAh like the LG HG2.

Single 18650, 2500mAh. 3.7v nominal voltage. 2500*3.7/1000 = 9.25 watt hours

Single 18650, 3000mAh. 3.7v nominal voltage. 3000*3.7/1000 = 11.1 watt hours

Lipo 3S, 900mAh, 11.1v nominal voltage. 900*11.1/1000 =9.99 watt hours

While using the nominal voltage can get you in the ballpark you actually need to use the entire voltage curve for the calculations as different batteries have different voltages under load. I did a shootout between the Fully Max LiPo, a 25R, and an HG2...

Watt-Hour Shootout -- FullyMax 10Wh 900mAh 3S LiPo (for DNA200) vs 25R vs HG2

Not fundamentally different results from your calculations but the FullyMax beats the other two by about 9%-33%, depending on the current level.

 

[Rockwell222]

Thanks Mooch for putting that info here. That will help clear some things up.

 

[VCross]

Ok, just so I understand this a bit better because I'm looking at getting a DNA200 but I'm also really stupid when it comes to the tech side. I remember reading somewhere that the LiPo battery packs will allow you to use it at much higher wattages than an 18650 device but the 18650's will last longer at lower wattages? Or does a higher W/h mean that the battery will last longer even at lower wattage? I haven't gotten or used any TC devices yet so from what I know the wattage you're using to get the coil up to the set temperature doesn't really matter too much in terms of how long your battery will last as much as how high you have your temperature set at. Or do I have that completely backwards?

 

[haleysdadda]

Check out the Reuleaux by Jaybo. Triple 18650's DNA 200 chip. Looks interesting but I'm going to hold out a little while. Still loving my IPV4s.

 

[Vlad1]

Ok, just so I understand this a bit better because I'm looking at getting a DNA200 but I'm also really stupid when it comes to the tech side. I remember reading somewhere that the LiPo battery packs will allow you to use it at much higher wattages than an 18650 device but the 18650's will last longer at lower wattages? Or does a higher W/h mean that the battery will last longer even at lower wattage? I haven't gotten or used any TC devices yet so from what I know the wattage you're using to get the coil up to the set temperature doesn't really matter too much in terms of how long your battery will last as much as how high you have your temperature set at. Or do I have that completely backwards?

Doesn't really have that much to do with the type of battery chemistry. If it's the 3s Lipo at 11.1 volts or 3 x 18650 either will allow up to 200 watts on the DNA200. A 2s lipo or dual 18650 at 7.4 V will only go up to 133 watts on the DNA200. Regardless of the type of battery the Maximum input current is 23A.

So the reason power is limited to 133W with 2 cell configurations is the DNA 200 does not have Boost circuitry so with dual cell a maximum of 7.4V minus loss's (I think they say 6V max output in dual configuration) and a Max of 23A it isn't capable of reaching the same output power as it would if it had a 11.1V power source.

 

[VCross]

Right. I get that part. I was more or less wondering about how long the batteries would last before needing to be recharged. I did a bit of math and 3 HG2's in the Vero or Reaulaux would have 33.3 Watt hours total [3x (3.7*1000)/1000] which to me seems it would last three times as long as an 11.1 Watt hour lipo in most of the other DNA 200 mods.

 

[Mooch]

Right. I get that part. I was more or less wondering about how long the batteries would last before needing to be recharged. I did a bit of math and 3 HG2's in the Vero or Reaulaux would have 33.3 Watt hours total [3x (3.7*1000)/1000] which to me seems it would last three times as long as an 11.1 Watt hour lipo in most of the other DNA 200 mods.

I did some watt-hour testing of the 10Wh 11.1V FullyMax lipo sold by Evolv and a 25R and HG2.

Watt-Hour Shootout -- FullyMax 10Wh 900mAh 3S LiPo (for DNA200) vs 25R vs HG2

You'll get about 21Wh-27Wh from three HG2's, depending on your power level.

 

[Rossum]

You'll get about 21Wh-27Wh from an HG2, depending on your power level.

You mean from a set of THREE HG2s, right?

 

[Mooch]

You mean from a set of THREE HG2s, right?

Arrgghhh....yup, I goofed.
Thanks! Post corrected.

 

[Darkly spectr]

triple 18650.

wismec reuleaux

It's thicker than a typical box but the shape of it makes it fit PERFECTLY in your hand. this thing is more comfortable to hold than my ipv3 LI, sig 150 or whatever. I have compared it to a SX mini and this thing is more comfy .

Not to mention its a .... ton shorter than a IPV3 LI/sigelei.

it IS heavier than most dual 18650 mods but honestly you barely notice it after a short while.

rocking 25rs in it for the moment but I am planning to go buy 6 LG HG2s.

honestly in terms of battery safety there is really no issue. the board only pulls 23 amps at max and most quality batteries handle that easily. hell technically unmarried batteries are fine since the individual battery monitoring makes it impossible to kill a battery.

Sure a lipo might last abit longer in terms of MAX 23 amps vaping but even so. most lipo DNA 200 mods have like 900-1500mah lipos with the occasional 1800mah one. a 3000mah lipo battery would be pretty damn big. also lets NOT FORGET one important thing.

charging. The DNA board only pulls one amp. which have to be distributed to every cell. add in some losses and you have maybe 0.25-0,30 amps per battery. while most battery chargers for 18650s handle 0.5 amps. since you are spending all that money on a DNA 200 mod and batteries get a nice one that can charge every battery at like 1 amp.

so not only can you charge the batteries faster than a high capacity lipo you can instantly swap it. good luck doing that with the lipo mods other than the hotcig one.

the reuleaux has proven that you can make triple 18650s fit in a nice compact comfortable size. Honestly I don't see the point in lipos anymore.