5% rule for testing flavors

[Kanedova]

Hey everyone,

I am new to DIY and have learned so much already just through this forum alone. Thanks for all the information you guys share here.

I stumbled across a DIY video and it mentioned when tasting a new flavor, you just use it at 5% without nicotine.

But what about the VG/PG ratio? Should it be 50/50 or it doesn't matter?

I really want to give it a shot but I am not quite sure at what VG/PG ratio you will get to taste the flavor most.

Hope you guys can help a newcomer out here

Thanks.

 

[BreSha6869]

Use the ratio that you prefer in your store bought juice.

I would guess that the vast majority of vapers are using 70-80%VG these days, but there are some that prefer 100%PG.

No right answer, but higher VG will likely give you a truer taste.

 

[jambi]

juice I make for myself is always 70vg/30pg/3 mg, so that's what I use to test flavors. Wouldn't make sense to test at something different than I want my end result to be. What matters is what you like, so figure that out and go with it.

As to %ages, I apply a general rule of thumb based on brand...

TFA/CAP 10%
FW 12 to 15 %
FA 5%
INW, SC, FLV and HGS 4%

Those are really just generalizations though. There are always exceptions, most will be obvious. Example: FW Menthol (or any menthol) at 12% would probably cause blindness, so 5% or less to start. Simple to start low and add more. Apply logic and good sense over a hard and fast rule.

I use the same 5 ml constant every time...that is 5 mls of my base + whatever % of flavoring. No, it's not exact volume wise. I don't care about that. I just want to do it fast without a calculator. Other people do it different, this works for me. Whatever method floats your boat.

Also, when in doubt, research. http://..................../flavors Type your flavor in and see how other folks are using it.

Ah, censored link. Whatever.

 

[OhTheAgony]

Juice I make for myself is always 70vg/30pg/3 mg, so that's what I use to test flavors. Wouldn't make sense to test at something different than I want my end result to be. What matters is what you like, so figure that out and go with it.

As to %ages, I apply a general rule of thumb based on brand...

TFA/CAP 10%
FW 12 to 15 %
FA 5%
INW, SC, FLV and HGS 4%

Those are really just generalizations though. There are always exceptions, most will be obvious. Example: FW Menthol (or any menthol) at 12% would probably cause blindness, so 5% or less to start. Simple to start low and add more. Apply logic and good sense over a hard and fast rule.

Also, when in doubt, research. http://..................../flavors Type your flavor in and see how other folks are using it.

Ah, censored link. Whatever.

I'm real curious about that link, could you pm it to me please?


As to TS's question; I'm sensitive to PG so for me it's VG only with about 6% distilled water.

I have a bit of a sweettooth & usually start at about 10% flavoring (TPA).

 

[jambi]

I'm real curious about that link, could you pm it to me please?


As to TS's question; I'm sensitive to PG so for me it's VG only with about 6% distilled water.

I have a bit of a sweettooth & usually start at about 10% flavoring (TPA).

Your wish, my command. Done.

 

[petrotech]

Yup.. what everyone else said...but I use 10 ml to test, because the math is easier for me. Lol.

 

[Hitmetwice]

Yup.. what everyone else said...buy I use 10 ml to test, because the math is easier for me. Lol.

I do 5ml mixes in a 10ml bottle for a little headroom to tweak. Each to their own though. Cheers.

 

[Steamix]

5% - fair rule of thumb to start with on a small sample and take it from there.

Chances are that, the flavours I'm using have been tried by others too. So I scour the web for data on percentages of flavour X from manufacturer Y . Averaged out, it should give me an idea where to get started.
After tha i CAN get a bit hairy as I'm not only mixing for myself. Doin it for some buddies as weel, each of them with their individual preferences for nic strength and PG/VG ratio.

So there isn't really a one-size-fits-all, nic strength and PG/VG ratio do have an influence on how the liquid finally tastes, and different flavours have different 'bandwiths' too.

If in doubt, start at the low end. Adding a tiny bit of flavour is easier that 'unflavouring'

 

[retired1]

Moved to DIY E-Liquid

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I start at around 3%. See how it is and add more flavor if needed.

 

[BrotherBob]

Welcome and glad you joined.

But what about the VG/PG ratio? Should it be 50/50 or it doesn't matter?

The ratio of mix of a single flavor with nicotine does matter for me. Mixing the way I intend to vape works for me.
PG/VG: More PG ~ more taste. My ratio, 30/70VG, is my sweet spot and will give me my taste intensity I normally receive in single or mix.
Starting flavor percentages for me depend on:
Blender recommended %'s (site)
Single, standalone flavor vaping past %'s (general vaping community consensus)
Numerous charts for each vendor's past %'s single (general vaping community consensus)
"ELR" DIY site will list general vaping community consensus for single flavor %'s.
Age of vaper and taste bud sensitivity.
Adjust up or down a % or 2 depending on your experience with type of flavor. (gut feel)

use it at 5% without nicotine.

Mixing without nicotine will give you a way of saving money by not having to throw out the mix if it it horrible. After a few months or years (pretty much depended on the number of mixes you do a month), you should be able to mix with nic and be pretty sure it will be vapable and not have to throw it out. Nicotine can be tasteless to some folks and not to others (this is another subject).

 

[herb]

Hey everyone,
I really want to give it a shot but I am not quite sure at what VG/PG ratio you will get to taste the flavor most.

Hope you guys can help a newcomer out here

Thanks.

If you want to taste the flavor the most you want high PG ratio's since VG doesn't carry flavor nearly as well .

 

[sofarsogood]

I want minimal flavor. If I use more PG the flavor seems to come out better so my preferred mix is 60/40 pg/vg. With that mix 1% flavoring is enough. If I go to 50/50 I need 1.5% flavoring. Minimal flavoring still tastes fine, bystanders usually don't smell it and if there is a leak in pocket carry I don't reek. Call me a DIY curmudgeon

 

[rice721]

IMHO just jump into making your own juice. The only thing I researched on was which flavor vendors were preferred and how to work an ejuice recipe calculator (I use ejuice recipe dot com).

I've only messed with fruity flavors so far and they seem to come out alright. My PG, VG, Nic, flavor are all from the same vendor here in China, I believe he/she has some alcohol in the flavors so it requires a bit of open cap steeping (2 nights with cover open).

As for preference, I find 6mg batches to be a bit too strong and 3mg batches to be a bit too weak so I've just made a 4.5mg batch with Capella Pineapple, TFA/TPA Strawberry ripe & Sour flavor (total comes out to 10%). I don't mind PG so I usually do either 50/50 or 40/60 pg/vg. My new batch with the 4.5mg nic is 45/55 pg/vg.

There is only so much you can prepare. Get some cylinder beakers, a glass dripper, some 30ml bottles and go at it!

 

[Alter]

No matter what flavor that is new I make 20mls of a 5% mix with no nic. Give it a week or two to steep then taste a couple drops on the back of the hand then go from there. Most do involve adding more flavoring but there are some that are good at that 5%. IMO making standalones especially as a new mixer will give you some boundaries to how some flavors taste before concocting a clone mix to find out its no where near what you thought. As for VG/PG ratio, my juice is 60/40-12nic and my wife's juice is 50/50-3nic. Just learn to take more straight mouth vapes without inhaling rather than always lung hits, thats how I can subohm(.5ohm) 12 nic without catching a nic buzz or hacking, your mouth doesn't absorb as much nic as your lungs do.

 

[IDJoel]

Hi Kanedova,
You've already been given some good info here but I'll chime in with my .

"PG + Flavor" only is the simplest, most cost effective means to taste test a flavor.

However I agree with the others that have already stated the addition of VG (and to a lesser degree; nicotine) will effect (usually by muting) the way a flavor tastes and at what percent it tastes best to you.
So I am of the camp that you will get a better feel for your true "preferred" percentage if you test with your usual PG/VG mix. I would still omit the Nic if you are going to dump the testing sample once you are done with it as it is the single most expensive ingredient in almost every mix. However, if you plan to vape the left-overs; then you may want to include the Nic.

Since I started DIYing I have been an unashamed groupie of a member (here on ECF) who goes by @Bill's Magic Vapor . He has mixed e-juices commercially and has shared a wealth of info on the hows and whys of mixing.

I mention him, because if you do a search for any one of his posts, you will see a link in his signature line. Click on that link and it will take you to a Dropbox of his that has a BUNCH of useful information.

For your question of this thread I would direct you to a specific PDF file in that Dropbox named "Flavoring Chart.pdf". If you open this and either print it off or copy it to your choice of reader it will give you a VERY EASY chart/table for testing any single flavor.

Starting at 5%, in a maximum of 9 steps, it will lead you in testing any flavor up to 25% in roughly 2.5% increments. It is all done with drops (you will need to use the same sized eye dropper, pipette, or syringe for all liquids used) so it uses very little product, and it has done all the math for you so you just keep adding a few drops of flavor and PG as directed until you find that particular flavor's sweet spot. (Note: if you want VG and Nic in your test; just premix a small amount of a PG/VG/Nic solution as you like and use that solution, drop for drop, in place of the "PG drops" specified on the table.

This will not be a "perfect" percentage (I can already hear people saying "the drops won't be the same because of varying viscosity." ) but it will give you a really close/good starting point for mixing larger more accurate quantities.

If you have flavors that are too strong at 5% I have recently worked out the same "drops" steps to test from 1% to 9% in roughly 1% increments. I have that posted over on The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread here:
The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread
These numbers will simply replace the ones in Bill's chart. It is important to mention that this set of testing drops REQUIRES using a 25% DILUTION of the selected flavoring. That is explained in the post as well.

All that being said; there are probably as many ways to DIY as there are DIYers. This is just works easiest/best for me. Find what works best for you so you will want to stick with it. Don't ever give up!

Good Luck!!

PS: when you get ready to start mixing multiple flavors I would suggest you look in Bill's Dropbox for "Bill's 100DT Method Explained" doc that gives a really easy and economical method to create your own recipes.https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lwfucwpf...k9qba/Bill's 100DT Method Explained.docx?dl=0

 

[Str8vision]

5% is a good starting point for most concentrated flavorings but certainly not for all. I have several flavorings that if used above 1% taste absolutely terrible. When trying a new flavoring I research what % others are using it at and start with the lowest recommendation, then adjust from there.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

For most juices my total flavoring is 7% or less.

 

[philbh]

You can always cheat and use someone else's recipe.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

You can always cheat and use someone else's recipe.

Nope have to make my own. Many flavorings either taste horrible to me or give me grief with mouth irritation and such. And most everyone seems to like too much flavor in their juice to suit me.