FDA 8/8/14 Comment/Letter to FDA by 29 state attorneys general

[sonicdsl]

FINALLY! In our local Vegas Newspaper. The author provides a local "hook" to our NV AG and then presents a generally favorable article for our cause.

"FDA fails to account for e-cigarettes’ health benefits
Nevada Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto joined 28 other state attorneys general last week in a letter supporting the Food and Drug Administration’s proposal to expand its regulatory umbrella over tobacco products to include electronic cigarettes. Unfortunately, the FDA jeopardizes public health by not adequately assessing the costs of suppressing the e-cigarette market."

Source: FDA fails to account for e-cigarettes

Fairly decent article, but some minor inaccuracies.

As AMA explains, e-cigarettes do not contain tobacco, the main reason regular cigarettes are so harmful. Moreover, vapor from e-cigarettes is much less toxic than secondhand tobacco smoke. And while e-cigarettes do contain nicotine, which is also not healthy, nicotine probably does not contribute nearly as much to smoking-related diseases as tobacco.

Tobacco is not why cigarettes are harmful. It's harmful because it's lit and burning. Also, there is nothing wrong with nicotine, in moderate doses (think caffeine); it's not "not healthy".

I'm nit-picking though.... it's nice to see a supportive article.

 

[TomGeorge]

I know why. But to get into it in here invites tangential conversations that are both infuriating and futile. It's odious, noxious and incessant and has deeply irritated a LOT of people. They've left this part of the forum, or don't bother to speak up. This allows that contingent to somewhat control the underlying political narrative here, and to imagine that opposition to the regulation of ecigs is only coherent and defensible as a right-wing "libertarian" cause. They really don't get it, won't get it, and that's the way it is.
They also won't acknowledge that that's the case.
Since they're on the right side vis a vis vaping, I bite my tongue much more often than not. I'm an old lefty activist and can soldier on with anyone who supports a cause I care about. The constant jabs and stereotyping doesn't bother apolitical persons in here, and that's fine.
If a TP person who bought that whole package except for gay rights, who was passionate about gay rights, were to wander into a forum in which socialists had seized that issue as emblematic of their whole agenda, it'd be a similar discomfiture. All political groups define "rights" only around their particular preferences, and always at the expense of other rights. To pretend otherwise is smoke and mirrors.

Just remember that quitting smoking is not a partisan project, that it's fair to assume that if we're at all representative of the general populace here then the majority of us here are actually not sympathetic to right wing libertarian ideology, that that contingent habitually and casually demonizes and misrepresents anyone not in their camp, in here as elsewhere, and, as one person (a very bright and articulate activist for this cause, who quit the forum) said, they're constitutionally unable and unwilling to stop pressing their whole package of talking points, and assume that everyone who disagrees is either a moronic political illiterate or a witting tyrant.

Sad that the old hatred of hippies, with attendant WAY off stereotype, and that whole musty cultural divide, should emerge in here too, though. I had to require myself to delete a very lengthy rejoinder. To somehow imagine those prim and authoritarian ANTZ as ex-hippies gave me a wondrous good laugh though; laughter is saving.

I think you got your parties mixed up there bub...

 

[Kent C]

All True.

And a Classic Example Evolution thru Mistakes verses Thinking Out the Entire Scenario First.

I Wonder how Many Mistakes in the Past will be Considered while the FDA Writes the File Rules they are Working on now?

re:bold But that's in fact that 'classic mistake' itself - the idea that one can 'think out the entire scenario'. It can't be done. Read FA Hayek "Road to Serfdom". It is the fact that no centralized authority can have all the information in a market is why centralized planning doesn't work. And the deeming is just another good example of it. They didn't even know about ecigs when the legislation passed. They intentionally or not, pushing cigalikes to the forefront, when the general market has already passed them by except for newbies - ie where they should be, rather than the only choice we have, like with cars in the Soviet Union and East Germany. And why CASAA was right in not buying into the change the grandfather date to the final rule. This industry is just an infant even now. More good and safer things to come IF ONLY the gov't would let it happen as we have done here, and hopefully can continue to do even if the market goes black. From all accounts I've read about and heard, the freest market in the Soviet Union was the black market where choice still reigned, but at a cost of course.

 

[Kent C]

Fairly decent article, but some minor inaccuracies.



Tobacco is not why cigarettes are harmful. It's harmful because it's lit and burning. Also, there is nothing wrong with nicotine, in moderate doses (think caffeine); it's not "not healthy".

I'm nit-picking though.... it's nice to see a supportive article.

I don't see it as nitpicking. They likely don't know the Swedish snus story or smokeless tobacco stats either. They should have said 'burning tobacco'

 

[jpargana]

And, the difference between how some people only see 'one level' of response, vs. the next level of response. When Congress passed the "Luxury tax on Yachts" in the early 90's ? They do this simplistic calculation - x number of yachts are sold each year. If we up the tax on yachts to x %, THEN we'll get $9 Billion more dollars in revenue! And they begin spending that money before the revenue comes in KNOWING with certainty they figured another way to soak the rich. What happened? The "rich" didn't buy any more yachts for about 4 years, sending all coastal areas, great lakes, 1000 lakes in Minnesota, etc. etc. into an economic crash, bankrupting some yacht manufactures and dealers - my best friends dad went bankrupt here, laying off all 'classes' of workers from the execs, middle execs, sales down to the minimum wage workers sandering boat bottoms. The '$9 billion in more revenue resulted in $3 Billion in losses' from the "Unintended Consequences".

(...)

A similar thing hapenned here in Portugal, when our Govt decided to raise VAT taxes.

Many people (especially those already on the edge of poverty) started buying LESS stuff, resulting in a net DECREASE of collected VAT on the next year.

What happens when you buy less stuff? There will be more companies and factories struggling to survive. Some of them will close their doors. Unemployed people will then resort to unemployment support, paid by the Govt. The net result of those "smart-..." policies? LESS money collected, and MORE money spent.

 

[Kent C]

A similar thing hapenned here in Portugal, when our Govt decided to raise VAT taxes.

Many people (especially those already on the edge of poverty) started buying LESS stuff, resulting in a net DECREASE of collected VAT on the next year.

What happens when you buy less stuff? There will be more companies and factories struggling to survive. Some of them will close their doors. Unemployed people will then resort to unemployment support, paid by the Govt. The net result of those "smart-..." policies? LESS money collected, and MORE money spent.

You got the drill down

 

[SeniorBoy]

Yours truly (Steve) waves to CASAA and thanks them for the state specific email/call to action I received today on this issue. Here it is:

"Nevada Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto is one of 29 that signed on to a comment to the (AGs Comment to FDA.pdf) regarding the proposed Tobacco Deeming Regulations. In their comment AGs urge the FDA to be more strict in regulating e-cigarettes. It is clear that the AGs have glossed over the devastating effect these regulations (as written) would have on vapor products and the consumers that have benefitted from them.

The Attorneys General are urging the FDA to limit “characterizing flavors” that they allege are intended for the sole purpose of “hooking” children and “new users” on nicotine. This is, of course, linked to the tenuous assertion that e-cigarette companies are marketing to children and attempting to attract non-smokers. Their recommendations also include a moratorium on advertising similar to the blackout on tobacco ads.

In short, this group of Attorneys General would like to see the most effective aspects of vaping removed from the products. If it were up to them, your e-cigarette would more closely resemble medicine, cost an outrageous amount of money, and come in only two flavors."

 

[DC2]

Yup, got the same thing from CASAA regarding our California AG Kamala Harris.

I've already contacted her a number of times.
But I'll certainly do it again right now!

We all need to take part in these kinds of efforts and do what we can to make our voices heard.
Otherwise, they are going to roll right over us without a second thought.

We at the very least need to make them have a second thought.

 

[zoiDman]

Yup, got the same thing from CASAA regarding our California AG Kamala Harris.

I've already contacted her a number of times.
But I'll certainly do it again right now!

We all need to take part in these kinds of efforts and do what we can to make our voices heard.
Otherwise, they are going to roll right over us without a second thought.

We at the very least need to make them have a second thought.

Absolutely.

When Elected or Appointed Officials think that No One is Watching, they tend to become Emboldened to do what they Please.

 

[Kent C]

Absolutely.

When Elected or Appointed Officials think that No One is Watching Voting, they tend to become Emboldened to do what they Please.

They do what they please no matter who is 'watching'.

 

[zoiDman]

They do what they please no matter who is 'watching'.

I dunno about that?

Perhaps a Last Term Elected Official who plans to Retire for Public Office. But there Isn't much you can do with People like that Anyway.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Look at the Voter Differential of the 2010 CAL AJ Election.

California Attorney General election, 2010 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ProjektMayhem]

...?! So I guess my lungs are considered a "component or part" because they are an essential part of vaping. So I guess they're gonna have to make having lungs illegal

 

[Jcdew67]

According to them anything with a USB port could be defined as a componant since it can be used to charge a ecig,oh noes my car stereo and PS3 is considered a Ecig componant!

 

[zoiDman]

According to them anything with a USB port could be defined as a componant since it can be used to charge a ecig,oh noes my car stereo and PS3 is considered a Ecig componant!

Just ask yourself a Question.

Do you Really See the FDA trying to Regulate/Restrict a USB Port under some Authority given to them from Congress?

Or is it More Likely that the FDA will Restrict e-Liquids Sales to Face-to-Face Only?

 

[dragonpuff]

Just ask yourself a Question.

Do you Really See the FDA trying to Regulate/Restrict a USB Port under some Authority given to them from Congress?

Or is it More Likely that the FDA will Restrict e-Liquids Sales to Face-to-Face Only?

I think he was joking

 

[zoiDman]

I think he was joking

I was kinda also.

But in all Seriousness. Hardware Isn't going to be where the Problems Occur.

It's going to be Nicotine in Liquid Form.