A concern for 801/phone jack mods

[crazyhorse]

I've been using the ¼" ratshack phone jack atomizer connector. I use an insulated brass bolt to provide the positive power to the atomizer. It has been my goal to build this connector so the center terminal is tight enough to negate the need to ever open the box and adjust for movement. I succeeded but in the process I may have created an atomizer killer.

When the positive terminal is fixed tightly enough in the phone jack to preclude movement, airflow is restriced and rerouted. With a normal 801 e-cig, considerable air is drawn through the battery and the remainder comes through the 4-hole array hidden underneath the collar. This tiny array doesn't seem to provide enough airflow. Although draw and vapor production aren't compromised, it may cause a severe enough heat rise in the area of the coil to blow the solder joints and kill the atomizer. This happens between puffs and happens as if a switch was flipped. With the "perfected" center bolt system, I managed to kill a new atomizer in 3 days on a grand total of 3 ml of vaporized liquid.

Bottom line: If you use the ¼" phone jact connector system, ensure you incorporate a vent that simulates the standard 801 battery/atomizer connection.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

crazy ... not entirely true bud ...

Have you ever sucked on the end of an 801 battery? You get almost zero air flow ... just enough to trip the automatic switch.

what worries me is the fact that this is happening between puffs when there is zero load and you have an incomplete circuit. Something seems *off* ....

 

[crazyhorse]

I dunno Cash. The airflow through a battery alone isn't much. You certainly can't extinguish a flame by blowing through an 801 battery but it may be enough to make a difference.

What I do know is my mods that allow airflow through the battery connector are not problematic at all but in the ones that do, the further I restrict that little bit of airflow through the battery connection, the worse they get. The sudden failures don't exactly occur between puffs when there's no load but occur subsequent to the previous puff. The failures all have the common denominator of a popped solder joint at the coil.

Edit: In other words, I'm looking for a way to blame this on myself and my methods. I've blown so many atomizers lately and there must be a reason. I have a bag full and they all have a blown solder joint and displayed a progressively shorter lifespan. I feel it has to be heat-related. I spend days outdoors and when the temps went through the roof, the atomizers started dropping like flies. All well and good but the most recent victim (with zero airflow in the battery connector) never went outside. There has to be a correlation.

 

[Extremeodd]

Im not sure if outdoor heat may affect 801s, Ive been cycling (slowly) through 7 of my be103s (bestecigs's 801) and have yet to have any die. Im using the older battery mod, the juicy box using 3 rechargeable 1.2v AAs putting out 4.1-4.3 at full charge. I abuse these quite a bit, I drop the box to the point of rebuilding the damned thing every 1-3 weeks, run it dry, run it soaked, itll sit in the car sometimes, Ill take 15 sec drags, all sorts of stuff really. Maybe Ive just been really lucky to only have 1 truely die on me. (it melted the plastic of a cart then a solder blew) Then again, I also am using a normal battery connector and have made sure I have a hole open where the battery was, if I have it covered the drag is simply too hard and I cannot get a good hit.

 

[breakfastchef]

Take off the 'collar' around the atomizer connector. You will be suprised how much additional airflow you will get.

 

[crazyhorse]

I modified my applicable connectors by replacing the airtight bolt with a spring. So far, so good.

Vapor was slower to get started with the wide open bore so I added an amount of restriction back inside the spring. That works better.

 

[Nuck]

Ive been vapin 801's with sealed connectors for months now without issue. Running high voltage without keeping it wet enough kills the atty. It is highly unlikely the minuscule amount of airflow from an open center pin would make any difference.

 

[crazyhorse]

I'm happy for you Nuck. Are you sure your sealed connectors are airtight? As I mentioned, a mod with a non-airtight connector is not a problem. Two additional mods became progressively more problematic the tighter I made them.

You have a good theory and I agree. Unfortunately, neither point fits my situation. We don't use high voltage although running dry on occasion does fit the pattern of my wife's usage. She uses the mod with the non-airtight connector. I've noticed her sucking the cartridge fairly well dry before but she has not blown a coil, or more importantly, caused a separation at the solder joint.

My concern is not the amount of airflow through the hole in the battery connector but what happens to the dynamics of the airflow through the atomizer when that tiny bit is absent.

 

[HockerMagnum]

Hey Crazy
The one thing you haven't mentioned is the liquid you use. Is it standard or home made? I have discovered that thin is an atomizer killer no matter how wet. I blew 2 of them while flooded with thin home mix. When I ran out of flavor and vaped straight VG I found myself in clouds of fog with a cool atty.

I was using about 25% flavor and water with VG. I now add only flavor to straight VG using a manual switch with an ac adapter at 3.6V and take only 4 or 5 second drags. When it begins to get harsh and hot I put it down for 30 seconds or so before puffing again. I haven't flooded or blown an atty since. Been using the same one for 2 weeks straight.

 

[Nuck]

I'm happy for you Nuck. Are you sure your sealed connectors are airtight? As I mentioned, a mod with a non-airtight connector is not a problem. Two additional mods became progressively more problematic the tighter I made them.

You have a good theory and I agree. Unfortunately, neither point fits my situation. We don't use high voltage although running dry on occasion does fit the pattern of my wife's usage. She uses the mod with the non-airtight connector. I've noticed her sucking the cartridge fairly well dry before but she has not blown a coil, or more importantly, caused a separation at the solder joint.

My concern is not the amount of airflow through the hole in the battery connector but what happens to the dynamics of the airflow through the atomizer when that tiny bit is absent.

Connector is 1/4 phone jack with #10 brass thread for center and 1/4" tube. The connector is back filled with epoxy. I've built over a dozen different mods now with these things and they are absolutely airtight.

I think you're applying much too fine a brush to what is pretty primitive atomizer. The tiny airflow from the center pin would do nothing to cool the atomizer, nor would it create some special vacuum that would allow the real air ports to somehow energize.

To test it...just seal the holes on your atomizer and try sucking on a regular battery. It will give you a good idea of just how little air gets through there.

The real discussion is what causes atomizers to fail. No shortage of theories on the forums for that one.

 

[ruuku]

Take off the 'collar' around the atomizer connector. You will be suprised how much additional airflow you will get.

bchef- is the collar just press fitted into the atomizer, or is it one piece?

 

[breakfastchef]

bchef- is the collar just press fitted into the atomizer, or is it one piece?

It is glued/press-fitted to the outside of the connector. I find it is easiest to remove the ring with a needle-nosed pliers and peel it off similar to the way you might open a can of sardines.

 

[crazyhorse]

Hey Crazy
The one thing you haven't mentioned is the liquid you use. Is it standard or home made? I have discovered that thin is an atomizer killer no matter how wet. I blew 2 of them while flooded with thin home mix. When I ran out of flavor and vaped straight VG I found myself in clouds of fog with a cool atty.

I was using about 25% flavor and water with VG. I now add only flavor to straight VG using a manual switch with an ac adapter at 3.6V and take only 4 or 5 second drags. When it begins to get harsh and hot I put it down for 30 seconds or so before puffing again. I haven't flooded or blown an atty since. Been using the same one for 2 weeks straight.

Good point HM. I'm glad you brought it up. It's something I've been wondering about.

We use only store-bought liquids. 36 mg PG/VG base, 36 mg PG base and 24 mg PG base. I cut with USP PG to a final strength varying from 12 to 24 mg.

I also take 4-5 drags and regularly touch the side of the atomizer to my lip to feel how hot it is. If I feel it getting hot, I put it down.

The mix that killed the last atomizer in three days was a mix of 36 mg PG/VG cut with 24 mg PG and cut further with PG to a final strength of 20 mg.

I haven't looked at the viscosity of any of our liquids. I only know that the PG/VG base 36 mg liquid is at least 10% heavier.

 

[HockerMagnum]

Would you try an experiment? I don't have any PG to compare with VG.

Take a mirror or piece of flat glass and put a drop of each about and inch apart. Tilt the mirror slowly to about 45deg. Which runs the least? I tried it with what I had been mixing and the VG barely elongated while the mix ran about 2 inches. If there is no difference in the PG and VG then my theory is blown and there has to be another explanation.

 

[crazyhorse]

Sorry but I don't have any VG to play with. The only VG I have is what came in the pre-mix PG/VG liquid but I can tell you, VG has to be higher viscosity. The specific gravity of VG is up around 1.3. while PG is less than 1.1.

Maybe I'll get me some VG when I go towards town tomorrow. I hear you can buy it in the cosmetic dept at chain pharmacies. I also hear it tastes foul (sweet) and that's why I've not bothered with it. If it could possibly preserve atomizers, however, it's worth a look.

I will do a test between the PG and PG/VG liquids I have. I already know the answer but I'll do it anyway to verify. I'll report back by adding an edit to this post.

Edit: Well, surprise me. I used a 8½" square piece of plate glass set at an undetermined angle but steeper than 45°. Drop sizes were uncontrollable. All drops placed at 5" from the edge. All drops slid to the bottom edge of the glass.

The first drop was the heavier PG/VG liquid and it took off like a rocket. I placed drop of 24 mg PG liquid beside it. It also took off quickly. I placed a second, smaller drop of the PG/VG liquid and reduced the angle to what turned out by calculation to be 34°. The two drops of PG/VG traveled at the same rate and both reached the edge of the glass at the same time. The 24 mg PG liquid made it to the bottom but 4 minutes later.

Another type of 24 mg PG liquid was much slower. A drop of this same PG liquid in 36 mg required 19 minutes to make the trip while another drop of the 36 mg PG/VG liquid was there in 11 minutes. A drop of pure PG needed 16 minutes.

Heh, I reread your post. Conducting the test as you suggest produced a different result. I placed the drops and slowly elevated to exactly 45°. Straight PG quickly flowed to the edge. The 36 mg PG/VG mix eventually flowed to the edge. It appears the 36 mg PG liquid will never reach the edge.

 

[crazyhorse]

I stand by my evaluation of an airtight 801 atomizer connector being a design flaw. Take it for what it's worth but here is anecdotal data supporting the conclusion. This covers 15 weeks of usage for two people.

In five weeks of initial usage, two atomizers each, we experienced no failures using standard 801 batteries.

Five weeks of usage with airtight connectors produced failures of solder/coil joints in 10 of our 12 original atomizers.

Over the next five week period, after correcting the atomizer connectors to approximate the airflow allowed by a standard 801 battery, I've used two atomizers and a total of 58.5 ml of liquid with zero failures. These two atomizers are still working just fine.

Over the entire 15 week period, my wife has experienced no coil failures using a mod with an adequately vented connector and standard 801 batteries.

Maybe it's purely coincidental that I blew ten out of twelve of our initial supply of atomizers on tightly restricted connectors while my wife is still using the two she originally started with.

The bottom line is during a combined total of thirty weeks of service, our only atomizer failures occurred while using a design that disrupts normal airflow through the atomizer. You do the math.

 

[warp1900]

Here is my own experience:

First e-cig ever purchased was an 801 pen style,
week number 1 = 6 fried atomizers, checked with a multimeter to make sure there is no current flow (circuit broken)

week number 2 nicostick built with factory battery connector = 2 atomizers fried.

week number 3 and up to date (3 months of very heavy vaping 8 ml X day) same setup, using sometimes same nicostick sometimes many other mods with 6V, 2 x 18650 batteries, and wall warts with 4.5 volts.
Some mods are original factory connectors, others are self made with the same jack you are mentioning... = 3 fried atomizers in 3 months.

Obviously you can not find a pattern here, except for my theory which is not knowing what the limits of your atomizer are when vaping constantly without letting it cool off or vaping "dry" (not enough juice), this applies to any type of atty.(901,801,401,510,etc.)
And when i mean getting the atomizer hot, i mean hot as in you can't touch it unless you want to burn your fingers. I tend to do that a lot, but i think the juice factor is the important one here, not enough juice in the cartridge / wick = easy scenario for burning an atty out.

When i first got my 801 kit i freaked out because of all the broken atomizers and i ordered 20 of each 801 and 901 because i didnt want to go back to analogs, now, i have a big bag full of new attys that most likely will last me for a couple of years.

As soon as i understood / set my vaping needs and i managaed to really understand how to deal with the juice, batteries, connections, voltages and frequency of puffing, my atomizer breakdowns became minimal. Only when i am experimenting (and screwing and unscrewing an atty) constantly, i tend to mess them up. Otherwise, it is a smooth ride for me.

Now i even use my mini pipe (love it) often and have not had one single atty burn out so far.

 

[NekoGurrl]

Most of the 801 atomizers I have are Janty Kissbox, and they have worked find with the 1/4" audio jack, as long as they don't screw all the way down to the nut. Then air flow does get restricted. On my first mod I did end up grinding some grooves into the nut to increase air flow. Haven't lost an atomizer yet at 6+ volts (knock on wood). The mod I'm working on now won't have the nut to worry about, plus will only be a 3.6v mod.

 

[CanyonRunner]

I have to agree with Cash and Nuck, in that, there is virtually no air flow through a normal 801 battery. It really shouldn't matter if the center hole is blocked or not. Makes no difference in air flow. As Nuck said "try sucking on a regular battery".

The picture below is of a DSE801 attomizer. All of the air comes through holes in the side of the atty connector, then through the four holes in the silicon rubber disc, and then through the black "venturi" disc. This venturi concentrates the air flow directly to the under side of the coil. Even if air did come through the center hole in the battery, it would end up hitting (cooling?) the atty the same way.


I also agree with Warp...there is no pattern to the atty failures.
I think it's just poor quality control. This atty had a piece of wick stuck under the metal mesh of the bridge....
This is not cart material. It is the wick the coil is wrapped around.


And, as Neko said, if you bottom out an 801 atty, forming a seal around the collar, it will effect air flow.

My 2 cents.....

 

[Kewtsquirrel]

I've been on the same 801 for about a month now with the airhole plugged, and it keeps on tickin. I've used it on 3.7v (4.2v) battery mods, usb passthrus, and 7v+ mods. I should note that it's a BE112 atomizer, and bestecig uses a thicker nicochrome wire for the heating element than the other brands do. The 901s I bought from them outlasted the totallywicked ones I had by a long shot, I don't think I've gotten less than a month out of a BE atomizer.