A message to all Canadian E-Juice retailer - A newbie observation

[renthepen]

Hello all.

I'm Ren, from Montreal.
I'm new here. I discovered the world of Personal Vaporizers less than a week ago. I have discovered this forum right from the start and it helped me a lot understanding the terminology surrounding e-cigs and understanding the legislation problems here in Canada.

Yesterday I shopped for the first time (online) for e-juice, and I HAVE SEEN MANY FLAWS in the e-cig industry - and I think that especially here in Canada, retailers should read my observations:

I've been through a list of about 25 Canadian websites to finally find something I felt safe to order. I will now give you my opinion about what I think all e-juice e-shops should offer on their websites:

1- I need to see an image that represent the taste. "Jughead", for instance, is not a website appealing to me (even though EVERYONE seem to agree that their products are great). Nice pictures of tobacco shot by professional photographers is IMPORTANT! Even if it's all bullpoodoo and in reality it has nothing to do with the actual taste of the juice, it gives an idea of what it tastes like. Also, I am looking to find e-juice that would taste close to the tobacco brand I use to smoke, so pics of known brands with altered names is appealing as well to me. When there's no image, it's almost sure I won't click on the product. Stupid, isn't it? Well that's marketing 101!

2- Descriptions. Most e-juice stores don't have enough descriptions. If I click on an item and read a full paragraph about the 4 layers of taste of that perticular juice, I am a happy customer and I want to order. If I can't even tell if the tobacco e-juice is sweet or not, I won't buy it. Plain and simple. Same goes with PG/VG and nicotine mg/ml quantities. If I can't tell, and if the ratios are not clear... well goodbye I'm shopping elsewhere.

By the way I find it annoying to have a product that is not available in both high, medium, low or zero mg of nicotine, and I really find it annoying when the nicotine mg is not told in numbers. e.g. I want to know that my nic e-juice is 8mg/ml so I can mix it while knowing the amount of nicotine in the final recipe. If it's just written "light", I am not a 100% satisfied customer.

3- What is in the juice? I want to know, for my safety, where it was made (China? I got nothing about China but I fear their QC) and if there are tobacco Alkaloids (good!) or Diacetyl & Acetoin (bad!) in there. If it's not written anywhere... I may just shop elsewhere.

It is a pain in the ... to shop for e-juice in the PV industry, as a newbie, in the situation we're in right now (April 2012).

Take this a dumb newbie feedback if you want to, but think about this: Health Canada will probably legitimate on our favor if the industry is following some self regulations, and I think that e-juice retailers should all be part of the association (ECTA) and that they should all follow the same rules. As for the marketing of the products (image + description), I hope that you will all work on that aspect of your e-shops so that new customers like me will feel at ease.

Thanks for reading.

-Ren
P.S. Yes, you can PM me then send me some e-juice samples and I will give my noob opinion on them lol

 

[lickwid]

I definitely agree.

The thing that bugs me the most, is when a vendor puts information in the description of an item that is blatantly wrong, like a device being 5v, when it's really 3.7v. When I see something like that I will completely disregard their site, they should know their own products!

 

[CanuckVapour16]

Yeah I agree too. I imagine it's due to the new nature of the industry but it would go a long way to convincing regulators that this is not a fly-by-night fad and that alot of people want the legalities of this cleared up to make commerce easier.

 

[Spac]

I agree. At the very least, a good detailed description of what is being ordered should be the minimum. I know when ordering juice, if I don't see a description, or at the very least a review for said juice somewhere online, I hava a hard time ordering it. (Blind shot in the dark)

 

[Oriana871]

I agree. At the very least, a good detailed description of what is being ordered should be the minimum. I know when ordering juice, if I don't see a description, or at the very least a review for said juice somewhere online, I hava a hard time ordering it. (Blind shot in the dark)

I agree. I'm going to try out Jugheads at some point, but reviews aside, I'm not satisfied when there are no descriptions of the flavours.

 

[SoUnique]

I can't say it is true of all Canadian vendors but Jugz does have a link to juice reviews that he sells. I've seen it on a few other local sights but sorry can't remember who they are at the moment.

I do agree a "true" description would be a bit easier for all of us.

 

[encee_rz]

The problem here I think is that flavour is something that is a matter of opinion.

Party A may call a juice "Nutty, sweet and rich" while another says it's "bitter, and piney"

If I was a vendor I could understand not wanting to label my juices for the simple fact taste is subjective and adding on labels to your juice could cut sales. And really, most names for juices cover the general idea of what the juice is going to taste like. Take Jughead's "Wild Cherry
Pipe'ous.ECF" you can tell that this juice is a cherry flavoured tobacco, or "Gummee'Bearz" I can tell you it's going to be a sweet, candy flavour.

Now, whether or not you prefer a flavor you won't really know until you try it and personally I take all reviews with a grain of salt. Mindfield is a great, trustworthy guy, but our palettes may be completely different. This is why most vendors offer sample sizes. Order up a couple, find one you love. It might take awhile and be a little pricey (heck, I haven't even really found my ADV and I've been vaping since October) but when you find that juice you'll know it's the one.

 

[Oriana871]

The problem here I think is that flavour is something that is a matter of opinion.

Party A may call a juice "Nutty, sweet and rich" while another says it's "bitter, and piney"

If I was a vendor I could understand not wanting to label my juices for the simple fact taste is subjective and adding on labels to your juice could cut sales.

I agree, however at least an attempt at describing what the desired result of a flavour would be. Is it intended to be tart, very sweet, subtle, etc.

I'm still a relative newbie and haven't been to a lot of juice sites, however I like what RAWR does on their site. A description by the vendor and written reviews by users. I personally don't have time to sit and watch video reviews on a juice flavour most of the time. You will always get mixed results because it's subjective but it does help a lot getting an idea of what the juice may be like and take it from there.

 

[Spac]

JC had the customer reviews on their site. Was nice to see what others had to say about their juice, and gave me some kind of idea of what to expect when I ordered.

I agree, however at least an attempt at describing what the desired result of a flavour would be. Is it intended to be tart, very sweet, subtle, etc.

I'm still a relative newbie and haven't been to a lot of juice sites, however I like what RAWR does on their site. A description by the vendor and written reviews by users. I personally don't have time to sit and watch video reviews on a juice flavour most of the time. You will always get mixed results because it's subjective but it does help a lot getting an idea of what the juice may be like and take it from there.

 

[Samyaza]

I think the problem is that a lot of the Canadian vendors are small. They honestly are not big professional companies and if any of them sell nic liquid they are taking a big risk doing so.

These are people who do what they do to help us out. They sell (often) very cheaply and I would hazard a guess that some of them make little to no profit. They don't have the time, money or resources to pay for a professional photographer, let alone a website or graphic designer.

I'd say be grateful that they are there at all

If you don't like what you see then you have the option of ordering from another country and taking your chances with customs, or going the DIY route.

 

[Oriana871]

Yes and not to mention that video reviews are usually done by just one person, sometimes a couple more, whereas written reviews can be from multiple people.

 

[Sec]

Well guys I have to disagree. I think that a lot of the flavors are pretty self explanatory so why have a picture or discription? EG: Jugheads "ZESTY Lemon".

I mean, yeah sure some could use a picture I suppose but for the most part IMO no further info is really needed.

 

[Oriana871]

I think the problem is that a lot of the Canadian vendors are small. They honestly are not big professional companies and if any of them sell nic liquid they are taking a big risk doing so.

These are people who do what they do to help us out. They sell (often) very cheaply and I would hazard a guess that some of them make little to no profit. They don't have the time, money or resources to pay for a professional photographer, let alone a website or graphic designer.

I'd say be grateful that they are there at all

If you don't like what you see then you have the option of ordering from another country and taking your chances with customs, or going the DIY route.

I was going to say the same thing but edited it out, because it really doesn't take that much to put up pics that can easily be found on the web. A lot of suggestions can be done with little money and time.

But I def do appreciate the Cdn vendors!

 

[Sec]

I think the problem is that a lot of the Canadian vendors are small. They honestly are not big professional companies and if any of them sell nic liquid they are taking a big risk doing so.

These are people who do what they do to help us out. They sell (often) very cheaply and I would hazard a guess that some of them make little to no profit. They don't have the time, money or resources to pay for a professional photographer, let alone a website or graphic designer.

I'd say be grateful that they are there at all

If you don't like what you see then you have the option of ordering from another country and taking your chances with customs, or going the DIY route.

I agree completely!

 

[Oriana871]

Well guys I have to disagree. I think that a lot of the flavors are pretty self explanatory so why have a picture or discription? EG: Jugheads "ZESTY Lemon".

I mean, yeah sure some could use a picture I suppose but for the most part IMO no further info is really needed.

There are some flavours that could use a description. What is "ashtray" or "Jokesmoke"?

 

[CanuckVapour16]

I think the problem is that a lot of the Canadian vendors are small. They honestly are not big professional companies and if any of them sell nic liquid they are taking a big risk doing so.

These are people who do what they do to help us out. They sell (often) very cheaply and I would hazard a guess that some of them make little to no profit. They don't have the time, money or resources to pay for a professional photographer, let alone a website or graphic designer.

I'd say be grateful that they are there at all

If you don't like what you see then you have the option of ordering from another country and taking your chances with customs, or going the DIY route.

While that is 100% true I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting some "standard" between vendors. A brief description of what the flavour should be, the dosage of the nic and PG/VG mix, options to change the PG/VG if available. Size in ml and price. Also easy to understand shipping options. That I believe should be the MINIMUM info provided.

 

[encee_rz]

I was going to say the same thing but edited it out, because it really doesn't take that much to put up pics that can easily be found on the web. A lot of suggestions can be done with little money and time.

But I def do appreciate the Cdn vendors!

If a flavour is just called "cherry" and the vendor puts up a picture of a cherry is that really going to make THAT much of a difference? A picture of a gummie bear? An apple?

 

[Oriana871]

If a flavour is just called "cherry" and the vendor puts up a picture of a cherry is that really going to make THAT much of a difference? A picture of a gummie bear? An apple?

Personally I don't need images and never said that I did

 

[Samyaza]

While that is 100% true I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting some "standard" between vendors. A brief description of what the flavour should be, the dosage of the nic and PG/VG mix, options to change the PG/VG if available. Size in ml and price. Also easy to understand shipping options. That I believe should be the MINIMUM info provided.

I am reasonably sure that most vendors have that information listed on their sites. The nic % is unlisted often because there is no nic option. Sometimes the other info is found in the "about" section and honestly I have never seen any shipping info that is difficult to understand.

 

[renthepen]

Just to put the record straight:

My opening post talked about the image/photo being a good marketing tool if vendors wants to attract newbies. That's what I meant. Like I said in that post, I am totally aware that a picture can sometimes have nothing to do with the actual taste - and same goes for the description - but they are essential to attract new customers. If a vendor gets my first e-juice order and that I enjoy it, it is almost sure that I will order from him again in the future.

Image = important. Marketing 101. That's my point.