A quick (sort of) note on b&m shops for the noobs

[KDubbs]

For all us newbies out there, and I still am one, make sure you really research things before you just start vaping and wind up as the medias latest tool for scare tactics. Just to clarify, I am not trying to scare anyone, but knowing ohms law and battery safety for yourself is crucial. I really trust peoples opinions on here, but I took the time to research things for myself.

Anyways the point of this post is that I recently purchased a mech mod from a local brick and mortar shop, which was mostly a great experience with good atmosphere and customer service. When I started to worry was when the guy at the shop threw in a free battery for my mech mod, a yellow he4 (20 amp rating), and threw a build on my new atty and mod combo, which was a nice gesture, but it came out to .13 ohms. This just seems dangerous, especially for a newbie. If I understand it right, that's demanding 30 amps from the 20 amp rated battery the guy gave me if it was freshly charged. That's just not good. I mean maybe he assumed I know what I'm doing, which for the most part I do, but he literally asked me zero questions. When I got home I took the build off and put on a .4 ohm build for a 10 amp draw which I feel much safer about.

In summary, just make sure you research your new toys before you run home and vape them! Know your build, your battery, and ohms law. Thoughts and comments appreciated, and let's keep on vaping! Safely!

 

[H4X0R]

For all us newbies out there, and I still am one, make sure you really research things before you just start vaping and wind up as the medias latest tool for scare tactics. Just to clarify, I am not trying to scare anyone, but knowing ohms law and battery safety for yourself is crucial. I really trust peoples opinions on here, but I took the time to research things for myself.

Anyways the point of this post is that I recently purchased a mech mod from a local brick and mortar shop, which was mostly a great experience with good atmosphere and customer service. When I started to worry was when the guy at the shop threw in a free battery for my mech mod, a yellow he4 (20 amp rating), and threw a build on my new atty and mod combo, which was a nice gesture, but it came out to .13 ohms. This just seems dangerous, especially for a newbie. If I understand it right, that's demanding 30 amps from the 20 amp rated battery the guy gave me if it was freshly charged. That's just not good. I mean maybe he assumed I know what I'm doing, which for the most part I do, but he literally asked me zero questions. When I got home I took the build off and put on a .4 ohm build for a 10 amp draw which I feel much safer about.

In summary, just make sure you research your new toys before you run home and vape them! Know your build, your battery, and ohms law. Thoughts and comments appreciated, and let's keep on vaping! Safely!

Man, I've had my bad experiences with vapor shops, I would probably say just to buy stuff online for this type of hobby. I had a guy sell me a sub ohm coil for an ego style battery. It worked for a while, and then the ego battery started copping out on me, protections were getting triggered left and right and I had no clue why or what was happening! That's when I learned about this stuff for myself. That same shop even sold me an unregulated mod and said I could throw ANYTHING on it because it "regulates itself"........ neglected to tell me about TC and not to use TC coils with it, as well as the lie that it regulates itself! I had to do fast learning after bringing it home. Just my experiences here. I would say not to trust the b&m shops myself.

 

[AJ Steele]

I have very mixed feelings about B&Ms. I was fortunate enough that, my first time inside one, the manager was working by himself and was very conscious of my needs as a smoker trying to quit. He sat me down to sample juice, talked to me about my habit, and didn't try to push equipment on me that I didn't need or was questionable for a newb. I walked out with an Aspire starter kit (ego batt, vivi nova style clearo). By the time I figured out I wanted something a little more powerful, I had read up a bit and knew what to look for. I really appreciate that experience, because it could have gone very differently.

I live in a different city now and there are about 5 different shops here. I don't see the same level of personal service in these shops, often what I see is a certain aloofness from the employees that I have come to resent a bit. I remember a time a month or two ago I went into a shop here and asked about the yet-to-be released Kanger Protank 4. The probably 19 year old guy kinda yawned and walked in the opposite direction while remarking that he didn't think they were going to be stocking any more Protanks. Now I'll admit he probably thought I was talking about the previous generation style of Protanks, but his general attitude just sucked. I go into that same shop a month later and guess what they have?

That kind of thing is just annoying, and makes me wonder if these dorks even know what they're talking about. I'm just a consumer, yet I was aware of this product before he was and it wasn't a big secret. I had another guy in a different shop recommend me an IJust2 to replace my broken Nautilus Mini and I bought it because I didn't know better at the time and I was in a rush and needed something quickly. Just little things like that make me not even want to walk into a shop again. And honestly, I don't need to, and I won't.

Believe me, I understand that if the vape shop dies, vaping dies, at least as far as public visibility goes. I never saw anyone recommend an advanced device to a new user but if I had, I would have unapologetically stepped in and been an ... about it. That kind of thing pisses me off. We don't need more bad statistics. If that makes me a jerk then I guess I'm a jerk.

Don't even get me started about the mark-up in shops, it is positively, without a doubt what got me started on DIY juice and online shopping. "Support your local B&M!" Yeah well, I'm not gonna go broke over a guilt trip, supporting some shop owner who will just rip me off. Nah, F that.
I like shops, despite all of that. They're a neat place to meet other people in this hobby, have a conversation or two, whatever. I wouldn't mind working in one either, but I'm not the hard-sell type. I'm not up on the latest crazy Instagram build nor does sitting around with a cordless drill all day entice me at all. I'd be the guy in the back making juice to order, but that's going away.

 

[Rule62]

For all us newbies out there, and I still am one, make sure you really research things before you just start vaping and wind up as the medias latest tool for scare tactics. Just to clarify, I am not trying to scare anyone, but knowing ohms law and battery safety for yourself is crucial. I really trust peoples opinions on here, but I took the time to research things for myself.

Anyways the point of this post is that I recently purchased a mech mod from a local brick and mortar shop, which was mostly a great experience with good atmosphere and customer service. When I started to worry was when the guy at the shop threw in a free battery for my mech mod, a yellow he4 (20 amp rating), and threw a build on my new atty and mod combo, which was a nice gesture, but it came out to .13 ohms. This just seems dangerous, especially for a newbie. If I understand it right, that's demanding 30 amps from the 20 amp rated battery the guy gave me if it was freshly charged. That's just not good. I mean maybe he assumed I know what I'm doing, which for the most part I do, but he literally asked me zero questions. When I got home I took the build off and put on a .4 ohm build for a 10 amp draw which I feel much safer about.

In summary, just make sure you research your new toys before you run home and vape them! Know your build, your battery, and ohms law. Thoughts and comments appreciated, and let's keep on vaping! Safely!

If I owned a vape shop, and one of my employees built a .13 ohm coil for anybody, I'd fire him or her immediately.

 

[mcclintock]

Shops vary a lot, but I think the root problem is it's a low paying job for most employees (not owners) and the hiring process must focus on friends and relatives or something.

I tire of the statement "learn ohm's law" because while anyone can learn an equation, that doesn't explain what it means for the vaper. For most, I'd say it means don't buy an unregulated mod or one that doesn't have a clear statement of battery requirements. You shouldn't have to calculate anything! But you need to know how to avoid it, or what cases you would have to.

Ohm's law also won't tell you which battery rewrap brands LIE in their specs!

 

[DaveP]

I buy a mod here and there at the local vape shop. They are ECF members and have a presence here on ECF. They used to offer a 90 day warranty on mods, but that's gone down to 30 days. Still, if I have to return something it's easier to hop in the car and drive 5 miles than it is to get an RMA number and pay the post office to deliver it. There's usually a $20 to $30 difference between the local vape shop and an online purchase and less if you have to pay the shipping cost online.

Lately, I have been shopping online vendors and looking for clearance sales. I've bought a number of popular RTA's for $9.95 to $19.95 and several VW and TC mods for under $40. You can never have too much vaping hardware.

 

[Baditude]

Vape shops vary as much in reputation as a auto repair shop. Some you can trust and some you can't. And this is coming from someone who worked for a year in a vape shop.

During my year in the vape shop, I was being paid just over minimum wage, part time hours. 80% of the sales staff didn't know much about battery safety or ohm's law basics. Heck, I caught my store manager about to sell an ICR battery to a customer for a subohm build mechanical mod. Luckily I intervened and recommended an appropriate battery for the customer.

Fortunately, our store had a policy not to build coils less than 1.0 ohm for customers for liability reasons. Then again, some of the sales staff were building coils for themselves that were 0.1 ohm.

Ohm's Law is pretty easy to understand as long as the concepts are presented simply and in perspective to how we use those concepts with our vaping devices.

Ohm's Law Explained for Vapers

• My attempt at explaining Ohm's Law in simple layman terms and how it relates to vaping.

Explain it to the Dumb Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations

• As simple as it is to use, some people have a tough time grasping the concept. Warning: Includes graphic photos of mod explosions.

 

[mcclintock]

Vape shops vary as much in reputation as a auto repair shop.

Ooooh ... I just realized how scathing a comment THAT is!!!

 

[sofarsogood]

For all us newbies out there, and I still am one, make sure you really research things before you just start vaping and wind up as the medias latest tool for scare tactics. Just to clarify, I am not trying to scare anyone, but knowing ohms law and battery safety for yourself is crucial. I really trust peoples opinions on here, but I took the time to research things for myself.

Anyways the point of this post is that I recently purchased a mech mod from a local brick and mortar shop, which was mostly a great experience with good atmosphere and customer service. When I started to worry was when the guy at the shop threw in a free battery for my mech mod, a yellow he4 (20 amp rating), and threw a build on my new atty and mod combo, which was a nice gesture, but it came out to .13 ohms. This just seems dangerous, especially for a newbie. If I understand it right, that's demanding 30 amps from the 20 amp rated battery the guy gave me if it was freshly charged. That's just not good. I mean maybe he assumed I know what I'm doing, which for the most part I do, but he literally asked me zero questions. When I got home I took the build off and put on a .4 ohm build for a 10 amp draw which I feel much safer about.

In summary, just make sure you research your new toys before you run home and vape them! Know your build, your battery, and ohms law. Thoughts and comments appreciated, and let's keep on vaping! Safely!

I'm amazed that any US walk in retailer is willing to sell mechs. Sooner or later some bonehead is going to get hurt and a slimey tort lawyer will take his case on contingent fee and the ecig business won't be so much fun any more. The best advice for new vapers is stay with regulated mods until you can make an exhaustive list of every possible way a mech can vent a battery and then decide if managing those risks is worth it.

 

[Rule62]

I'm amazed that any US walk in retailer is willing to sell mechs. Sooner or later some bonehead is going to get hurt and a slimey tort lawyer will take his case on contingent fee and the ecig business won't be so much fun any more. The best advice for new vapers is stay with regulated mods until you can make an exhaustive list of every possible way a mech can vent a battery and then decide if managing those risks is worth it.

I don't have a problem with B&Ms selling mechanicals. A lot of people use them. I do have a problem with vape shop employees recommending mechanicals to first time, or beginning vapers.
I have more of an issue with shops selling rewrapped batteries with inflated mAh and CDR ratings.

 

[DaveP]

Even in the local vape shop I like there are young people at the counter who's last job was at the movie theater down the street or a burger joint. They learn quick from the lead guy who's experienced with ecigs and electronic theory. That's how it is in most starter jobs that don't pay enough for trained electronics people to consider.

The lead guy is always walking around listening to what's being said. He intervenes here and there and assists the rest in helping the buyer to make a solid choice.

Everywhere I've been there are Efest batteries and it's not because they are cheap. It's because Efest seems to be in stock all the time. The Sony, Samsung, and Panasonics sell as soon as they hit the counter, leaving the Efests as the only choice much of the time.

That said, one of my matched pairs is Efest and they give me about the same vape time as my matched pairs of Sony VCT4 and Samsung 25R. Those dang Efests come out of the dual 18650 mod at the same voltage and match voltage during the charge every time. I'm a lucky guy, I guess. I paid $12 each for them in the vape shop and wouldn't have bought them if they weren't the only choice on the day I bought the Koopor and needed a matched pair.

 

[DaveP]

Shops vary a lot, but I think the root problem is it's a low paying job for most employees (not owners) and the hiring process must focus on friends and relatives or something.

I tire of the statement "learn ohm's law" because while anyone can learn an equation, that doesn't explain what it means for the vaper. For most, I'd say it means don't buy an unregulated mod or one that doesn't have a clear statement of battery requirements. You shouldn't have to calculate anything! But you need to know how to avoid it, or what cases you would have to.

Ohm's law also won't tell you which battery rewrap brands LIE in their specs!

Ohms law along with an understanding of how it relates to battery amperage in your particular application is important. Battery current isn't something you can see on most digital displays in a VV/VW/TC mod. It should be.

I'm looking at the Relleaux RX200S lately and will probably buy one to use at 10W. It's overkill, but the battery life would be pretty great at that level. I noticed that there's an amp display on that mod which I assume does an actual/theoretical calculation of battery amp draw at current settings. I hope that's a new feature that appears on all new mods. It might inform sub ohmers as to why their .2 ohm coil makes the case get warm.

 

[mcclintock]

Ohms law along with an understanding of how it relates to battery amperage in your particular application is important. Battery current isn't something you can see on most digital displays in a VV/VW/TC mod. It should be.

I'm looking at the Relleaux RX200S lately and will probably buy one to use at 10W. It's overkill, but the battery life would be pretty great at that level. I noticed that there's an amp display on that mod which I assume does an actual/theoretical calculation of battery amp draw at current settings. I hope that's a new feature that appears on all new mods. It might inform sub ohmers as to why their .2 ohm coil makes the case get warm.

A display would allow using lesser batteries, but the mod should have a fixed max. limit and if that battery's that good then should be no worries.

I've run 8.5 watts at .6 ohm on my 30w mod and the case gets hot, the battery cell's not stressing, it's just the circuitry working hard to step down to 2.2 volts

 

[DaveP]

A display would allow using lesser batteries, but the mod should have a fixed max. limit and if that battery's that good then should be no worries.

I've run 8.5 watts at .6 ohm on my 30w mod and the case gets hot, the battery cell's not stressing, it's just the circuitry working hard to step down to 2.2 volts

Exactly. Boost and Buck circuits produce heat when they regulate. Even if the display on the RX200S is only showing the result of a calculation it's informing the user where they are in terms of current draw. Since it's the same in all batteries in a multiple battery circuit with the exception that current adds in the output in parallel and averages in series, it should be a tip off when they see their battery drain current exceed. Each battery draws the same current.

 

[AJ Steele]

My VTC mini does that. I'm guessing it's the current at the coil and not at the battery? Or no?

 

[DaveP]

My VTC mini does that. I'm guessing it's the current at the coil and not at the battery? Or no?

I think it's doing an ohm's law calculation and displaying the result. I can't see them adding the circuitry to read current flow in each battery. In the graphic below individual battery current is the same. In parallel configuration current adds in the output and voltage is equal to individual battery voltage. In serial config current is the same, but voltage adds. Individual battery current is the same in both configurations. This is max that the batteries can safely deliver. The coil will determine actual draw.

 

[justinjj1280]

Vape shops are vital to the survival of the industry, but man, some (not all) of them kind of lost their way, in my opinion. I've vaped for a few years, but there are some shops that are just intimidating to walk into, like a private club where everyone knows the language. Imagine how a smoker feels walking in looking for his or her first kit. I can't see pushing mechanicals and subohm on new vapers. I love that we have all of this new equipment, and I love the hobbyists, but a simple eGo kit is still the most important product we have to offer to the current smoker. I've been vaping for years and still use regulated, internal battery mods and standard tanks (I'm starting to buy rebuildables and 18650 mods because of the deeming regs only) and some of these shops make me feel like a total lameoid when I walk in. That's why I pretty much only buy juice at the B & M shops.

 

[AJ Steele]

I think it's doing an ohm's law calculation and displaying the result. I can't see them adding the circuitry to read current flow in each battery. In the graphic below individual battery current is the same. In parallel configuration current adds in the output and voltage is equal to individual battery voltage. In serial config current is the same, but voltage adds. Individual battery current is the same in both configurations.

Yeah, I understand that about multiple cells. My VTC mini just uses a single 18650 but you are likely correct, it's probably just a calculation and not an actual current reading.

 

[DaveP]

Vape shops are vital to the survival of the industry, but man, some (not all) of them kind of lost their way, in my opinion. I've vaped for a few years, but there are some shops that are just intimidating to walk into, like a private club where everyone knows the language. Imagine how a smoker feels walking in looking for his or her first kit. I can't see pushing mechanicals and subohm on new vapers. I love that we have all of this new equipment, and I love the hobbyists, but a simple eGo kit is still the most important product we have to offer to the current smoker. I've been vaping for years and still use regulated, internal battery mods and standard tanks (I'm starting to buy rebuildables and 18650 mods because of the deeming regs only) and some of these shops make me feel like a total lameoid when I walk in. That's why I pretty much only buy juice at the B & M shops.

What I see in the local vape shop crowd is lots of sub ohmers. A year or two ago the air was clear. Now, there might be only two or three customers, but they are sitting at a table drinking a cup of free coffee and blowing plumes.

Most new vapers are buying the cheaper starter kits and then graduating to whatever their friends are doing. Some know what they want and others don't.

Juice in the shops I've been in don't match my preferences. I've walked around the juice bar in several vape shops and sampled the entire lot. Even among the various juice brands they mostly have the same under taste that throws me off. I like clean, mostly clear juices and I always come back to Hangsen and Dekang because of that.

 

[DaveP]

Yeah, I understand that about multiple cells. My VTC mini just uses a single 18650 but you are likely correct, it's probably just a calculation and not an actual current reading.

Yep, I think they know your voltage and your coil resistance, so the current draw at the battery is X. It's free in terms of hardware costs to just use what's known.

Current=Voltage/Resistance