A realistic view amid the panic

[Train2]

Well, what do you think "approved" liquid will cost?
$2/cartridge, with maybe 1.5 mls in it, and difficult to refill if possible at all.
So, there's yer $40 for 30 mls, crappy vape in any of the 4 available flavors!

The default prices for e liquid were too expensive from the start.

 

[skoony]

I agree with a lot of overreaction going on. We only know the initial intentions of the FDA and whatever is going to happen is two years away. Things will change somewhat I'm sure, but to the extent that vaping will become a thing of the past? I don't believe so.

With vaping now a multi-billion dollar industry, government can't ignore the tax revenues to be garnered. It's all about the Benjamin's!

The Federal government isn't receiving any tax from vaping as of yet however,taxes lost
from cigarettes at the state and Federal level are estimated at 40 billion and counting.
Returning the status quo to the original and predictable revenue stream is the intent
of the deeming regs. The taxes are already in place as the master tobacco settlement.
These monies are needed to pay off bonds.

If you have Read much of what Mr. Zeller has said since the Draft "Deeming" was released in 2014, you would/should be Concerned with one key statement that he has said repeatedly. That the "Deeming" Rule Set would be a Foundational Rule Set.

Foundational to me infers that there will be Additional Restrictions/Regulations based on "Deeming". How Much will be Added or to what Severity? I Can't Say. But one thing is Clear, Deeming is Not a One-n-Done Rule Set.

Correct and to the point Zoid. things can only get worse in the future. Even with my tinfoil hat
(made with genuine Reynolds aluminum foil) on,I cannot think of anything that could possibly be worse.

I wish I had the answer to that very question. Mostly all I see on this thread is supposition, guess work and paranoia. One person even said we are being attacked by the FDA. Attacked is a bit of a hyperbole, however, taken in context of the statement I understand its meaning. Vaping is being regulated. If were being attacked, the FDA would have banned all vaping products immediately UNTIL regulations were enacted. But this is rhetoric is common of many supporting agencies in order to raise fear among the masses and garner support for their cause.

They don't have the authority to ban cigarettes either.

Your supposition,guess work and, paranoia is our analysis,calculations and,preparedness.

Mike

 

[DoctorJ]

I think you just Won the Understatement of the Year Award with this.

Yay me

 

[YoursTruli]

But you do agree we have close to two years to build up stocks. No, nothing new is on its way at this point, but I'll bet you the things we have now are about to be re-supplied in an even more abundant volume, a market flooded. Prices will rise at first, just due to panic, then we very well may see huge discounts due to the sheer inventory of items. You have time was part of my point that hasn't come across real well.

How long you can vape depends on how much DIY supplies you can store up.

No, I do not agree that we have two years to stock up. IF the FDA does not continue expanding the rules/regulations during that time (which they have made every indication they will do so) the states are going to pick up that slack with rules/regulations and taxes of their own... NO? well it has already started in several states that ban internet sales, no non-face to face sales, no buying out of state eliquid, testing of eliquid, bans on where you can vape, who can vape..... and now that the FDA has put out their current agenda the states are already jumping up to stop things they do not like about vaping... such as flavors
CASAA: New Jersey
A bill -- S 298 -- which would ban the sale of vapor products in flavors other than tobacco, clove, and menthol, is on the move in New Jersey.
while other stats are gearing up to make thier move now that everything vape related is considered a tobacco product...

Sooo... 2 years to stock up... absolutely not.

 

[zoiDman]

No, I do not agree that we have two years to stock up. IF the FDA does not continue expanding the rules/regulations during that time (which they have made every indication they will do so) the states are going to pick up that slack with rules/regulations and taxes of their own... NO? well it has already started in several states that ban internet sales, no non-face to face sales, no buying out of state eliquid, testing of eliquid, bans on where you can vape, who can vape..... and now that the FDA has put out their current agenda the states are already jumping up to stop things they do not like about vaping... such as flavors
CASAA: New Jersey
A bill -- S 298 -- which would ban the sale of vapor products in flavors other than tobacco, clove, and menthol, is on the move in New Jersey.
while other stats are gearing up to make thier move now that everything vape related is considered a tobacco product...

Sooo... 2 years to stock up... absolutely not.

Doesn't sound Too Bad to me.

"2. Section 2 of P.L.2008, c.91 (C.2A:170-51.6) is amended to read as follows:


2. a. No person, either directly or indirectly by an agent or employee, or by a vending machine owned by the person or located in the person's establishment, shall sell, offer for sale, distribute for commercial purpose at no cost or minimal cost or with coupons or rebate offers, give or furnish, to a person:

(1) a cigarette, or any component part thereof, which contains a natural or artificial constituent or additive that causes the cigarette or any smoke emanating from that product to have a characterizing flavor other than tobacco, clove, or menthol; or

(2) any electronic smoking device or any cartridge or other component of the device or other related product, including a liquid refill, that has a characterizing flavor other than tobacco, clove, or menthol.

In no event shall a cigarette, electronic smoking device, or any cartridge or any component part thereof or other related product, including a liquid refill, be construed to have a characterizing flavor based solely on the use of additives or flavorings, or the provision of an ingredient list made available by any means.

...

3. This act shall take effect immediately."

S298

And Hey... There are still Legal, right?

 

[crxess]

No, I do not agree that we have two years to stock up. IF the FDA does not continue expanding the rules/regulations during that time (which they have made every indication they will do so) the states are going to pick up that slack with rules/regulations and taxes of their own... NO? well it has already started in several states that ban internet sales, no non-face to face sales, no buying out of state eliquid, testing of eliquid, bans on where you can vape, who can vape..... and now that the FDA has put out their current agenda the states are already jumping up to stop things they do not like about vaping... such as flavors
CASAA: New Jersey
A bill -- S 298 -- which would ban the sale of vapor products in flavors other than tobacco, clove, and menthol, is on the move in New Jersey.
while other stats are gearing up to make thier move now that everything vape related is considered a tobacco product...

Sooo... 2 years to stock up... absolutely not.

Simply to add:

Non-SE, 12 months - Not doable, See 2007 Deeming
SE, 18 months - Not doable, See 2007 Deeming
PMTA, 24 months - 1 Successful PMTA Since 2007 Deeming

 

[Two_Bears]

It's those people who want to try D.I.Y or start building their own coils who are being preyed upon. Why D.I.Y in the first place ?. Because the vendors juice is too expensive, far too expensive !. And no matter where you go juice is basically the same price. So how much does it cost to D.I.Y ?. I recently found out that the vape vendor (Darkstar- one of the few great vendors here in the uk) i use to buy nicotine VG from sell their Plain VG at £9.99 - here : Vegetable Glycerine

I was buying mine from here for £16.99 before : 5 Litre Vegetable Glycerine EP USP Food Cosmetic Grade | eBay

So here's how much a typical vape vendor sells VG for : 100 ml Propylene Glycol / Vegetable Glycerine

See that ?, £2.99 for 100ml.

And you know how much cotton costs from a vendor. You can't say they aren't taking the absolute piss.

I can buy VG for £2 a litre from "Darkstar Vapours". "Alchemists Cupboard" charges £30 a litre (typical vendor prices).

£30 a litre !

Thats 1500% more than the basic retail price.

Are you really going to try to defend this kind of markup ?.

If they sold baken beans they'd want me to pay about £12 a can. This kind of behaviour is completely unacceptable whether you think it's ok or not. God knows what the government must think. Although now, i'm beginning to get the picture.

You should always get USP or Kosher grade of VG and PG.

I paid $21 for a gallon (3.78 liters of USP grade VG.

 

[crxess]

You should always get USP or Kosher grade of VG and PG.

I paid $21 for a gallon (3.78 liters of USP grade VG.

My last purchase, 4 Gal VG, hit the Door yesterday at $17per Gal. total

 

[ENAUD]

My last purchase, 4 Gal VG, hit the Door yesterday at $17per Gal. total

Got to love them Glycubes!

 

[YoursTruli]

FDA Deeming updates - VTA issues FDA regulations calendar

"The Vapor Technology Association has released an extremely useful document, outlining the key dates in the deeming implementation, and what manufacturers and suppliers must do to remain on the market.

I won't say anything more just now, but take a look through and understand that the implications of deeming do not start in 2018, but start almost immediately...."

 

[wheelie]

There are more smalltime vendors posting on this site than you might realise. There's loads of them. They are the ones getting "everyone else" pumped up over these regulations. And they are the ones who are going to go out of business. And it's those businesses that the government are targeting because they sell items like VG/PG, cotton pads etc at the most extortionate rates you simply wouldn't believe. And you'd only realise that if you were to shop around for these items at online business's who aren't vaping vendors. Then you know exactly what i'm talking about.

Apparently you do not know how business are operated. Did you ever think we have to go through suppliers. A store has a hard time buying directly from China. Stores can not buy directly from FastTech like you do. Minute it goes into the store we have to show the trail of money and where supplies are coming from. Then it is a whole new class and you need more licences and you are now an importer. I think you need to do some research as your thinking is foolish. You truly believe stores can do a big free for all and government is not watching? Stores can not even get their own hands in their pockets because government has both their hands stuffed into our pockets. Perhaps one day you will have a business of your own and learn the world of business. CHEERS!

 

[evan le'garde]

Apparently you do not know how business are operated. Did you ever think we have to go through suppliers. A store has a hard time buying directly from China. Stores can not buy directly from FastTech like you do. Minute it goes into the store we have to show the trail of money and where supplies are coming from. Then it is a whole new class and you need more licences and you are now an importer. I think you need to do some research as your thinking is foolish. You truly believe stores can do a big free for all and government is not watching? Stores can not even get their own hands in their pockets because government has both their hands stuffed into our pockets. Perhaps one day you will have a business of your own and learn the world of business. CHEERS!

I'm not sure what you are talking about at all.

The businesses i have referred to that do sell VG at a reasonable price are no different to the businesses you are referring to.

So, maybe you could clarify what the hell you're talking about mate ?.

 

[evan le'garde]

Apparently you do not know how business are operated. Did you ever think we have to go through suppliers. A store has a hard time buying directly from China. Stores can not buy directly from FastTech like you do. Minute it goes into the store we have to show the trail of money and where supplies are coming from. Then it is a whole new class and you need more licences and you are now an importer. I think you need to do some research as your thinking is foolish. You truly believe stores can do a big free for all and government is not watching? Stores can not even get their own hands in their pockets because government has both their hands stuffed into our pockets. Perhaps one day you will have a business of your own and learn the world of business. CHEERS!

Here's a typical example of a vendors price for VG
100ml - £2.99
100 ml Propylene Glycol / Vegetable Glycerine

And here's a vendor who sells it at a reasonable price.
5 Litres - £9.99
Vegetable Glycerine

The Alchemists Cupboard sells it at 1400% more than Darkstar does.

The Alchemists Cupboad's prices are typical of most vape vendors.

 

[evan le'garde]

Apparently you do not know how business are operated. Did you ever think we have to go through suppliers. A store has a hard time buying directly from China. Stores can not buy directly from FastTech like you do. Minute it goes into the store we have to show the trail of money and where supplies are coming from. Then it is a whole new class and you need more licences and you are now an importer. I think you need to do some research as your thinking is foolish. You truly believe stores can do a big free for all and government is not watching? Stores can not even get their own hands in their pockets because government has both their hands stuffed into our pockets. Perhaps one day you will have a business of your own and learn the world of business. CHEERS!

So explain the differences between these two companies. While at the same time include your previous point.

 

[Two_Bears]

My last purchase, 4 Gal VG, hit the Door yesterday at $17per Gal. total

WTG. I'm impressed!

 

[gofishtx]

Speak for yourself.

View attachment 554625

LOL

Tapatyped

or borrow wire from beckdg

 

[Gramdogg]

Here's a typical example of a vendors price for VG
100ml - £2.99
100 ml Propylene Glycol / Vegetable Glycerine

And here's a vendor who sells it at a reasonable price.
5 Litres - £9.99
Vegetable Glycerine

The Alchemists Cupboard sells it at 1400% more than Darkstar does.

The Alchemists Cupboad's prices are typical of most vape vendors.

Good job calling that ..... out. I think he is a 14 yr old that pretends he owns a business but yet shops at fasttech? Buying direct is much cheaper then fasttech. My local shop sells Evic VTC Mini with Tron for $40 Canadian.. even cheaper then fasttech and it's B&M so "they can't buy from fasttech like you and me" is a dumb statement... why would they? Fasttech isn't direct from China that would make the purchases 3rd party not "direct". He tried telling me selling $20 juice for $22 is better then selling $3 juice for $10, real business savoy expert their lol.

 

[Gramdogg]

So explain the differences between these two companies. While at the same time include your previous point.

He "owns a chain of stores" but yet "couldn't afford to vape if it wasn't for fasttech". At 20% mark up I guess that could be true but not likely lol.

 

[Zutankhamun]

If ever you wanted something else, could you not get it and use it? Did regulations ever stop you from doing anything you never thought was morally wrong anyway? I feel sorry for you if it did...

 

[tj99959]

I've been thinking the same thing. People really are overreacting.

Na .... haven't overreacted.

I've been prepared for this since Njoy went at it with the FDA.

The upside of being prepared shows up every month when there is cash left over after I've paid my bills.
So far being prepared has bought all new kitchen appliances for the wife, a great vacation in Park City, and a nice wedding for my youngest daughter.

So you just go ahead and spend all your hard earned cash at the local vendor or online month in & month out, and I'll just keep on being prepared.

The difference is, I buy stuff when it's to my advantage to do so instead of when I need to. My last purches was a $200 N-Zonic for 15 bucks. Before that, a couple of Provaris' for 30 bucks each. I can take advantage of those 'deals' because I don't NEED to buy anything.