A retrospective study on the health effects of vaping

[Siouxinpa]

@Dr. Robert Cranfield - Thank you for this.

So much of the research being done today are typical witchhunt studies that use ridiculous amounts of a variable in order to get an adverse effect. Formaldehyde in e-liquid, as an example. They had to increase the power of the vaporization method to such a high level to get an adverse effect it would be impossible for humans to physically inhale the vapor. That little bit of information is strangely missing from the study for some strange reason.

It's refreshing for me to see that more people in the medical community are approaching vaping with an open mind.

My deepest gratitude.
Sioux

 

[awsum140]

I don't want to be contentious, and I am not a scientist at all. Just a normal, every day, vaper. I have looked, on the internet of course, and haven't found any study that indicates that nicotine is addictive by and of itself. All of the studies that show an "addictive" propertie seem to be performed using smoking tobacco. Given the "enhancements" to tobacco it would be rather difficult, at least to me, to attribute addictive qualities strictly to the nicotine. In fact there have been studies of the effects of nicotine on humans. My understanding of peer review would eliminate it from such a study on humans if it were addictive. Can you point me to any, bonafide studies that do show the addictive nature of nicotine?

 

[Bob Chill]

I really appreciate the work, Dr. I've experienced similar benefits. Heck, the only experiences I've had since quitting smoking completely over 2 years ago have been positive. I haven't experienced a single negative effect that I can link to vaping. Not one single one. But smokers have generally have a much different health baseline from the cumulative effects from years of inhaling smoke. There's really only one direction to go.

The burning question that basically all of us want to know is are there cumulative effects that lead to chronic illness? That's the "smoking gun" being sought after but for different reasons depending on which side of the issue you are on. I find it interesting that not a single thing can be documented yet. Chronic use of any substance will generally show signs of harm within a reasonable period.

IMO- polling/studying never smokers who vape probably has more value in measuring areas of concern. I look at it like this analogy:

Someone who eats McDonalds for breakfast/lunch/dinner for 5 years decides to cut back and only eat dinner there but eat smart for their other meals. Another person in perfect health with a great diet decides to go on a 5 year dinner binge of big macs and supersized fries and drinks.

The 5 year breakfast lunch and dinner person is likely going to have clinically measurable improved health while the perfectly healthy person is likely going to show clinically measurable negative consequences. When it comes to vaping, I'm most interested in what can be found in users who never smoked in the first place. They only have 1 direction they can go unless they discover that vaping is a "healthy" habit. lol. Wouldn't that be something.

 

[Dr. Robert Cranfield]

I really appreciate the work, Dr. I've experienced similar benefits. Heck, the only experiences I've had since quitting smoking completely over 2 years ago have been positive. I haven't experienced a single negative effect that I can link to vaping. Not one single one. But smokers have generally have a much different health baseline from the cumulative effects from years of inhaling smoke. There's really only one direction to go.

The burning question that basically all of us want to know is are there cumulative effects that lead to chronic illness? That's the "smoking gun" being sought after but for different reasons depending on which side of the issue you are on. I find it interesting that not a single thing can be documented yet. Chronic use of any substance will generally show signs of harm within a reasonable period.

IMO- polling/studying never smokers who vape probably has more value in measuring areas of concern. I look at it like this analogy:

Someone who eats McDonalds for breakfast/lunch/dinner for 5 years decides to cut back and only eat dinner there but eat smart for their other meals. Another person in perfect health with a great diet decides to go on a 5 year dinner binge of big macs and supersized fries and drinks.

The 5 year breakfast lunch and dinner person is likely going to have clinically measurable improved health while the perfectly healthy person is likely going to show clinically measurable negative consequences. When it comes to vaping, I'm most interested in what can be found in users who never smoked in the first place. They only have 1 direction they can go unless they discover that vaping is a "healthy" habit. lol. Wouldn't that be something.

It's actually quite a challenge to find people who vape who were not smokers. The CDC has statistics showing that less than 1 percent of teenagers who vape were previously non smokers. I believe the number was 0.7 percent. In my surveys, now over 500, I've found only 8 people. There really isn't a statistical analysis you can do in any meaningful way with that small a group. Even if I reach my goal of 1000 surveys and that percentage holds through, I'll only have 16 people. Still not enough.

 

[Dr. Robert Cranfield]

I don't want to be contentious, and I am not a scientist at all. Just a normal, every day, vaper. I have looked, on the internet of course, and haven't found any study that indicates that nicotine is addictive by and of itself. All of the studies that show an "addictive" propertie seem to be performed using smoking tobacco. Given the "enhancements" to tobacco it would be rather difficult, at least to me, to attribute addictive qualities strictly to the nicotine. In fact there have been studies of the effects of nicotine on humans. My understanding of peer review would eliminate it from such a study on humans if it were addictive. Can you point me to any, bonafide studies that do show the addictive nature of nicotine?

What level of nicotine do you use in your rig?

 

[awsum140]

Right now, I'm at 5mg (I DIY) and have been vaping for over three years. I only use tobacco flavors, by the way...fruit, candy and confections just don't appeal to me in vaping.

 

[Dr. Robert Cranfield]

Right now, I'm at 5mg (I DIY) and have been vaping for over three years. I only use tobacco flavors, by the way...fruit, candy and confections just don't appeal to me in vaping.

Have you tried to go to zero nicotine? Notice I don't write it as 0 MG? Too much like OMG.

 

[Jode]

It's actually quite a challenge to find people who vape who were not smokers. The CDC has statistics showing that less than 1 percent of teenagers who vape were previously non smokers. I believe the number was 0.7 percent. In my surveys, now over 500, I've found only 8 people. There really isn't a statistical analysis you can do in any meaningful way with that small a group. Even if I reach my goal of 1000 surveys and that percentage holds through, I'll only have 16 people. Still not enough.

There will be some here that strongly disagree with me and you may as well, but I hope to see more vapers that were non smokers. Let me clarify, placing the emphases on the non smoker part. I see vaping as so much more then just a way to quit smoking. I see it's future, hopefully, taking the place of a would be smoker and enabling them to be a never smoker. I also see it as a low cost (health and monetary) vice that can help people deal with the daily stresses instead of grabbing that cig, pill, drink, food, rent to gamble away, etc.... If vaping makes it through this very scary regulation phase then I see much good in it's future. I look forward to a world that all people will have a healthier choice of vices to help us through the day. I would be daft to think that all of a sudden people will no longer look for something to give them pleasure and comfort and I hope that thing is vape.

 

[awsum140]

I haven't tried that, yet, but I can tell you I haven't had what is described as a nicotine craving in over two years and was using higher levels of nicotine back then. I really suspect that the effect of "nicotine craving" is a result of other chemicals, and their actions on the brain, rather than specifically sourced to nicotine. Like I said, I'm no scientist or medical specialist, but that seems to be observed in many, many cases.

Anecdotally, I have also seen many say that they have to keep their nicotine level at 24mg or even higher or they get "cravings". I guess every body, and body chemistry, is different which would certainly account for that. It would be interesting to try a blind study with vapers using high nicotine levels, especially long time vapers.

 

[Dr. Robert Cranfield]

I haven't tried that, yet, but I can tell you I haven't had what is described as a nicotine craving in over two years and was using higher levels of nicotine back then. I really suspect that the effect of "nicotine craving" is a result of other chemicals, and their actions on the brain, rather than specifically sourced to nicotine. Like I said, I'm no scientist or medical specialist, but that seems to be observed in many, many cases.

Anecdotally, I have also seen many say that they have to keep their nicotine level at 24mg or even higher or they get "cravings". I guess every body, and body chemistry, is different which would certainly account for that. It would be interesting to try a blind study with vapers using high nicotine levels, especially long time vapers.

I'm pleased that you are cutting down on the nicotine level. Why not just go to zero?

 

[awsum140]

Well, I'm OCD, I guess, and have about a liter in the freezer, LOL.

 

[Dr. Robert Cranfield]

Well, I'm OCD, I guess, and have about a liter in the freezer, LOL.

OK, tell you what. Try the zero nicotine level for a week. That way you can still use what you've got. After a week, ask me the same question about nicotine addiction. I'm not being a smart ...., just want to make a point. You refer to something called nicotine craving. That's another word for withdrawal. From the aspect of physiology, nicotine has been shown to have a similar neurotransmitter effect to other addictive chemicals. But, honestly, I'm in the court of common sense and don't want grant money wasted on proving what you can prove to yourself, and what has been proven to each vapor who tries to go down the nicotine ladder too quickly. Do your own study of one. If that doesn't convince you, then there is no convincing you.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Here's a website you may be interested in (Dr. Farsalino's Research): E-cigarette Research

And a couple of Forums here on ECF:

1. Health, Safety and Vaping Forum
2. Medical Professionals Private Forum

As I understand, they are not really functional. Excessive number of subforums it not useful.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I love scrutiny. A survey becomes a study when the data is analyzed. So this is both.

Nope. It is still a survey. Nothing more. You did not analyze it, you just explained results in a bit more detail.
To become a study it have to have a control group, statistical analysis, etc.

 

[Toastyroadie]

I'm pleased that you are cutting down on the nicotine level. Why not just go to zero?

I quit smoking cigarettes almost 5 years ago and only took up vaping a couple of months ago as I have been reading about the benefits of nicotine, for Alzheimer, Parkinson and dementia.

I vape 6mg and likely won't be dropping anytime soon.

Why would you recommend someone go to zero nicotine?

 

[Dr. Robert Cranfield]

I quit smoking cigarettes almost 5 years ago and only took up vaping a couple of months ago as I have been reading about the benefits of nicotine, for Alzheimer, Parkinson and dementia.

I vape 6mg and likely won't be dropping anytime soon.

Why would you recommend someone go to zero nicotine?

I think you missed my point on that series of comments.

Nope. It is still a survey. Nothing more. You did not analyze it, you just explained results in a bit more detail.
To become a study it have to have a control group, statistical analysis, etc.

All statistical analysis is at its simplest, is explaining results in more detail. This is still a work in progress. But there is enough information to be tantalizing.

 

[Oliver]

Why don't we drop this into general discussion now?

 

[Alien Traveler]

All statistical analysis is at its simplest, is explaining results in more detail.

?
Statistical analysis is more than that. It shows if you have any result or not.

This is still a work in progress. But there is enough information to be tantalizing.

I do not see any “tantalizing” information.
Let me use an analogy.

Suppose we have some non-smoking, but heavily drinking society. Suppose smoking was introduced as drinking cessation method. Suppose we have results of survey of 100 people for whom it worked, who smoked for 3 years instead of drinking.

Results:

1. Tremendous health improvements:

- No new cases of cirrhosis among smokers

- No alcoholic dementia cases among smokers

- No DUI casualities with involvement of smokers

2. No adverse health effects due to smoking, only 2 individuals reported some cough problems, but they could be explained by other means (yes, 3 years of smoking are not enough to develop visible health problems).

So, you see, your survey is on about the same level as my “survey”.

 

[Sirius]

Dear Dr. Robert Cranfield please read and - if you agree with the M.O.V.E - add your support. Home « Medical Organizations supporting Vaping and Electronic cigarettes

Outstanding!

Welcome Dr. Robert Cranfield.

 

[Sirius]

<-- 43 year smoker quit using ecigs..Had a heart attack and I still couldn't quit. Not with pills,.patches,..or gum. My lungs are looking much better now as I have been quit 2 years in August.

EKG looking good as well.