A retrospective study on the health effects of vaping

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Dr. Robert Cranfield

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alien Traveler" data-source="post: 16043419" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
alien Traveler said:
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Statistical analysis is more than that. It shows if you have any result or not.

I do not see any “tantalizing” information.
Let me use an analogy.

Suppose we have some non-smoking, but heavily drinking society. Suppose smoking was introduced as drinking cessation method. Suppose we have results of survey of 100 people for whom it worked, who smoked for 3 years instead of drinking.

Results:

1. Tremendous health improvements:

- No new cases of cirrhosis among smokers

- No alcoholic dementia cases among smokers

- No DUI casualities with involvement of smokers

2. No adverse health effects due to smoking, only 2 individuals reported some cough problems, but they could be explained by other means (yes, 3 years of smoking are not enough to develop visible health problems).

So, you see, your survey is on about the same level as my “survey”.
Almost. But not quite the same in your analogy. Rather than changing from one health hazard to another with a totally different disease profile, it would be like changing from alcohol to an alcohol substitute that people were clamoring about causing exactly the same diseases as alcohol. So to do a comparison between vaping and smoking is very unlike a comparison between smoking and alcohol.
At the end of this analysis I plan on comparing the disease incident in vapers to the well known incidence of disease in the general population as tracked through the CDC and NIH. The general population will be the control group.
 

awsum140

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OK, tell you what. Try the zero nicotine level for a week. That way you can still use what you've got. After a week, ask me the same question about nicotine addiction. I'm not being a smart ...., just want to make a point. You refer to something called nicotine craving. That's another word for withdrawal. From the aspect of physiology, nicotine has been shown to have a similar neurotransmitter effect to other addictive chemicals. But, honestly, I'm in the court of common sense and don't want grant money wasted on proving what you can prove to yourself, and what has been proven to each vapor who tries to go down the nicotine ladder too quickly. Do your own study of one. If that doesn't convince you, then there is no convincing you.

I'll be mixing flavors this week sometime and will make a 30ml batch of my favorite mix with no nicotine. 30ml should last me at least five days anyway. I'll even "speed steep" it in a UC cleaner rather than let it steep for two weeks. I'll let you know how it works out. I really don't expect to feel any noticeable effects, I've gone totally without vaping for over a day at a time more than once with no noticeable effects. I will stipulate that some people may well be more susceptible to the effects of nicotine than others, and I may be one of the "lucky" ones.
 

Dr. Robert Cranfield

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I'll be mixing flavors this week sometime and will make a 30ml batch of my favorite mix with no nicotine. 30ml should last me at least five days anyway. I'll even "speed steep" it in a UC cleaner rather than let it steep for two weeks. I'll let you know how it works out. I really don't expect to feel any noticeable effects, I've gone totally without vaping for over a day at a time more than once with no noticeable effects. I will stipulate that some people may well be more susceptible to the effects of nicotine than others, and I may be one of the "lucky" ones.
George burns smoked cigars until he died at 100 years old. He was one of the lucky ones.
 
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DC2

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I've heard of CASAA. I am a member of the TSFA.
Did you mean SFATA?
It is not surprising to see measured health benefits. What's surprising is that I have yet to find another similar study. If anyone here knows of one, or can find one, please let me know.
There was a survey very similar to what you have done.
It was a few years ago, at a vape convention.

I'll see if I can find it.
it's relatively toxic at low doses and it's addictive.
Nicotine High-Toxicity Myth Destroyed
Nicotine maybe not so addictive after all?
I'm pleased that you are cutting down on the nicotine level. Why not just go to zero?
Personally, I continue to use nicotine for the health benefits I expect to gain.
Nicotine, the Wonder Drug? | DiscoverMagazine.com

Also, nicotine increases memory, concentration, and attention, even in non-smokers...
Will a Nicotine Patch Make You Smarter? [Excerpt] - Scientific American

Both good reasons to use nicotine in moderation as far as I'm concerned.
:)
 
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mattiem

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OK, tell you what. Try the zero nicotine level for a week. That way you can still use what you've got. After a week, ask me the same question about nicotine addiction. I'm not being a smart ...., just want to make a point. You refer to something called nicotine craving. That's another word for withdrawal. From the aspect of physiology, nicotine has been shown to have a similar neurotransmitter effect to other addictive chemicals. But, honestly, I'm in the court of common sense and don't want grant money wasted on proving what you can prove to yourself, and what has been proven to each vapor who tries to go down the nicotine ladder too quickly. Do your own study of one. If that doesn't convince you, then there is no convincing you.
I've got to ask you. Will you be convinced that nicotine (to someone that has never smoked cigarettes) is not as addictive as some have been lead to believe.
 

Bob Chill

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The thing about nicotine in it's pure form is that addictive or not, not one single scientific study can find a damn thing wrong with it. I mean like nothing. Studies go way back too. Even for inhaled nicotine vapor. Like this study from 1996. Pumped rats full for 2 years straight with inhaled nic. Nada. Zippo.

Long-term effects of inhaled nicotine. - PubMed - NCBI

Then studies started realizing "oh wow, nicotine helps the brain!"

Repeated nicotine exposure in rats: effects on memory function, cholinergic markers and nerve growth factor. - PubMed - NCBI

I challenge anybody to find a scientific study that links simple modest nicotine ingestion to ANY adverse health effects that are any worse than caffeine.

Nic or zero nic is nothing more than a personal choice in my opinion. But the choice really hasn't little if anything to do with harm.

Me personally, I love it. Works great. Helps the brain click. No doubt in my mind. Might be my wiring and I don't really care. I have a complicated job loaded with math and analysis. I personally and anecdotally am 100% convinced that I benefit from modest nicotine consumption just like I do from my simple 1-2 cups of black coffee per day. I've done my homework. The jury is still out in some ways but not really in many others.

Even the FDA themselves are good to go with long term use of NRT products. Didn't start that way. But after many many folks chewed gum, sucked down lozenges, and stuck a patch on their arm for a decade plus, nothing happened. Nada. Zippo. Well except for the gum. There are documented cases of jaw and teeth problems from all the chomping and grinding. But not at the hands of the ingredients anyways.
 

DC2

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It is not surprising to see measured health benefits. What's surprising is that I have yet to find another similar study. If anyone here knows of one, or can find one, please let me know.
There was a survey very similar to what you have done.
It was a few years ago, at a vape convention.

I'll see if I can find it.
Here is the survey I was talking about...
Interviews With “Vapers”: Implications for Future Research With Electronic Cigarettes

It's not quite as similar to yours as I remembered it being, but it WAS over four years ago.
Maybe I need to up my nicotine intake.
:laugh:
 
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BigEgo

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I won't post just to increase my post count. Elsewhere it is called spamming. Rules are rules, gentlemen. 5 posts will get here quickly.
I am not a smoker, not a vaper. I was introduced to vaping by a friend who had used it to quit smoking. She had gotten her 30 year old son to quit smoking simpy be telling him he couldn't smoke in the house, but he could vape. He was adamant that he was not going to quit smoking. He would just vape inside and smoke everywherre else. He ended up quitting cigarettes within a month, not intending to quit. My son was a closet smoker, but discovered e-cigs on his own and quit. I had a 70 year old neighbor, smoking since age 10. He was able to quit (cigalikes believe it or not). Another friend, my now significant other, was also a closet smoker when we met. Needless to say she is now vaping. So I started doing research. There is a lot of controversy about the health benefits, but no one that I have seen ever actually took the time to ask folks about how their health had changed when they started vaping. So, I did. The changes are incredible. We can talk about theoretical dangers based on what is in them, or how they seem to affect cells, or individual organs, or genetic markers that might make a difference, but the proof is in what happens to the person, not in theory, but in practice. My study has about 500 respondents and is growing. Currently there are over 120 people who have been using e-cigs for 3 years or more. It is clear that not only do they feel better, but there are far fewer measurable adverse health events when you stop combustible tobacco products. Measured, documented and now reported. I now am co-owner of a vape store. As with others who have started this business, I am concerned about getting people to a clearly safer and measureably healther option.

Robert Cranfield, MD

First, I would like to say welcome.

Second, while your work is interesting, I don't put a lot of faith in survey studies. We need objectivity, which can only be had by having trained medical professionals monitor the health of volunteers in vivo over a period of years. I am aware of such studies going on currently and I am sure the FDA and others have expensive longitudinal studies planned as we speak. I think we will begin to see more and more clinical studies in time being published all over the place. They are coming, but they obviously take a lot of planning and time to conduct.

I am a vaper but I am not convinced e-cigs are completely without risk. My biggest concern is with the flavorings and the lack of knowledge as to which flavoring compounds are benign to inhale and which might be a hazard. The science on inhalation simply does not exist for most of these compounds. They are all approved by the FDA for ingestion, but not inhalation. As a doctor, I am sure you are aware that the two must be treated differently. And doing studies on this topic will be very time consuming and expensive since there's hundreds of potential compounds used in flavors.

We do know that diacetyl and acetyl propionyl are potential hazards and much fuss is being made about those two chemicals being present in some of the more popular liquids (some in very high amounts). This is an area of concern for some of us. I fear that some people may end up doing serious damage to their health due to these diketones (which have caused deaths in popcorn factory workers). It's true that there's (generally) more DA/AP in cigarette smoke, but it's not an apples to apples comparison because most people vape a lot more (in volume of vapor inhaled) than they ever smoked. And there are liquids out there with far more DA/AP than is found in cigarettes (up to 2000 ppm, which is much higher than the 400-500 ppm in cigarettes).

My hunch is when it's all said and done that e-cigs will be much less harmful, but the industry is going to have to go through some growing pains (removing certain chemicals from their liquids) before we get to that point.
 

Dr. Robert Cranfield

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Did you mean SFATA?

There was a survey very similar to what you have done.
It was a few years ago, at a vape convention.

I'll see if I can find it.

Nicotine High-Toxicity Myth Destroyed
Nicotine maybe not so addictive after all?

Personally, I continue to use nicotine for the health benefits I expect to gain.
Nicotine, the Wonder Drug? | DiscoverMagazine.com

Also, nicotine increases memory, concentration, and attention, even in non-smokers...
Will a Nicotine Patch Make You Smarter? [Excerpt] - Scientific American

Both good reasons to use nicotine in moderation as far as I'm concerned.
:)
Addiction and toxicity are very different. The LD50 in MSDS sheets is what has been tested on lab rats. There have been attempted suicides with nicotine that exceed the current scare level and people have survived. But at 500 mg suggested level remember that's just 2 bottles of 10 ml 24 mg juice. Or if someone git concentrated nic at 100 mg/ml that's only 5 cc or one teaspoonful. Also remember that nicotine was used as a natural pesticide at one time.
I'm all for being on one side of the issue or the other. I think there are valid arguments pro and con. But it is a disservice to deny facts. You can support your issue on either side and be factual.
 

ZCAR1

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Dr. Cranfield, below is a comment by bones1274 (joined ECF Oct.27, 2010).
It might be helpful to your study to contact him as he seems to have a shed-load of recent documentation.
This is from the post "Is Organic Cotton Harmful" 6/3/15

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can we secure from General Quarters now?

I have been using organic cotton wicks for almost 2 years now and here is my personal outcome from it. But first a little background. Smoked 1PPD for 21 years and quit 5 years ago. Used ecigs to quit. Cartos with cotton fill for 3 years and RBA with cotton wick for almost 2 years. Anyways, due to a medical condition unrelated to smoking, (burn pit exposure) I have had EXTENSIVE lung testing over the last 6 months as follows:

1. Pulmonary breathing test. (sitting in a glass box and breathing into a tube for a variety of tests for 45 min)
2. Methacolene challenge. (used to determine if you have asthma)
3. Stationary bike test (30 min on a bike with full O2 face mask, BP cuff, and 15 or so different monitors stuck all around your chest. Resistance on the bike increases over time and a Doctor administers the test.)
4. CT scan of the lungs.
5. MRI of the lungs.
6. High resolution CT of the lungs.
7. VQ scan (like a CT but they inject you with radioactive dye. You also inhale radioactive solution throughout the test)
8. PET Scan (like a CT but you are injected with radioactive dye.)
9. Angiogram
10. High Stress Angiogram (Angiogram performed when your heart rate is at max, 165 BPM. Heart issues can cause breathing issues)

Every single test showed that I had normal lung function with absolutely no signs of damage from smoking, asbestos exposure, or now cotton exposure. The doc is still working to see if what is going on with me is burn pit related. While I understand that everyone else is different, if someone else can offer better conclusive evidence that vaping cotton is harmful, please step forward.

Cheers!
 

DC2

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I think there are valid arguments pro and con. But it is a disservice to deny facts. You can support your issue on either side and be factual.
Did you read the links I provided?

I propose that, given enough time, there will be two facts...
--Nicotine is not as toxic as the world believes
--Nicotine by itself is NOWHERE near as addictive as the world believes

Yes, nicotine is still toxic.
So is everything else, it's just a question of dosage.
:)
 
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Dr. Robert Cranfield

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Did you read the links I provided?

I propose that, given enough time, there will be two facts...
--Nicotine is not as toxic as the world believes
--Nicotine by itself is NOWHERE near as addictive as the world believes

Yes, nicotine is still toxic.
So is everything else, it's just a question of dosage.
:)
I've read them before.
 
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