A vaping newbie's torment...

[checkmate]

Hi all... I’m looking for some experienced vapers’ advice... or perhaps just a way to unburden my soul. I’m not a newbie to ECF but am somewhat of a new-newbie to vaping... please read on. And please excuse the length of the post.


Context here:


I’ve smoked a pack and a half a day of Marlboro Lights 100s (or stronger brands, occasionally) regularly for nearly 15 years... I consider myself a heavy smoker. I have tried to quit (cold turkey) only once, failed miserably after 2 days, never again tried to quit altogether. No ill effects from smoking so far other than the proverbial bad smell and the occasional cough, but for those exact reasons I’m looking to leave analogs since a while ago - aware that I won’t be able to quit nicotine altogether (at least for now)


Tried an M401 ecig a while back (approximately at the time when I first joined the ECF)... found it a reasonably good product but it didn’t satisfy me... too little flavor, too little TH, too little vapor, too much inconsisetency, way too much hassle... but to be perfectly honest, I didn’t put too much effort into it eithe. So no joy with the 401. (and still looking for a way to safely dispose of a large quantity of expired liqud )


Kept smoking analogs... recently saw a waitress vaping on a Leo, and decided to give the ecig another try, hopig to leave analogs... Checked web, found a well-equipped seller in my town, went there... chose and bought a Lea Tank.


I was advised by the seller to start with a strong(er) nic content to facilitate leaving analogs, so I did... Purchased some 24mg juice, in both PG and VG to try both... USA Mix seemed like a logical choice, as it is supposed to be a mimic of “my” MLB Lights. (Note: nevermind the manufacturer for now.)


Tried vaping... WOW! Amazing TH, tons of vapor, very very very nice sensation... I was happy. There were no problems in the beginning. The flavor did seem a little bland (though fresh), but I attributed it to my smoker’s taste buds... however, as I planned to combine analogs and the ecig in the first few weeks (both for me and for my environment to get used to it), I decided to order some stronger-tasting juice (you know, the usual beginner’s “I want something that tastes just like my analogs” mentality )... checked the forum for opinions, picked an appreciated manufacturer, ordered some RY4 and some Tobacco... all in 24mg...


Combined vaping and analogs for a few days... reduced analogs a bit... no problem at all. Tried to set a date to leave analogs altogether, but kept postponing it...


So the day came by itself... I was at my sister’s for lunch, went home... and realized that I had left my cigs and lighter back there. And as I had a lot to study for an exam, and didn’t feel like going to the store to buy some smokes, I said to myself “OK, this is your chance.” So I kinda took it.


And that's where my torment starts...


I must have vaped at least 1.5ml of 24mg juice just that afternoon/evening... and while I enjoyed every inhale, I somehow kept feeling the need for more... (I have to admit, I do smoke more when studying or working on my laptop, but I have never ever exceeded two packs of 100s in my life)... but no matter how much I vaped back there, I still wanted “just a few more inhales”... until I started feeling a little ill eventually. And I had a bit of trouble falling asleep that night.


Went to ECF the next day, found out that some people continued to crave cigarettes even after vaping for a while, and that perhaps they crave something other than nicotine... so I decided - as I had in the begining - to combine analogs and vaping for some time... but I didn’t buy my MLB Lights, but another brand that I also like (a bit stronger one), hoping that a few stronger cigs a day, combined with vaping, will satisfy the need for whatever the heck it is that I am craving...


Kept going on like that for a few days...


I don’t know if it is because I really had to study so much and sleep so little and just need a good night’s sleep... if it is because I am addicted to (and craving) something else other than nicotine... or it is simply that I gravely exaggerated with the nic altogether... but after three or four days, I have smoked more than half a pack of analogs a day, vaped at least 1.5ml of 24mg juice (I’m using the Lea’s .75ml tank as a reference) a day... to the point that I started feeling increasingly ill whenever I take a hit or a smoke... but I STILL feel the craving.


My question: what the heck is wrong with me? What am I doing wrong?


Last night - couldn’t fall asleep, again - I did some simple math and nearly fainted:


1.5 ml of 24mg/ml = 36mg of nic
at avg .8mg per cigarette (as rated on my MLB pack), that equals 45 cigarettes
plus the 10-15 analogs that I had every day...


That is 60 (SIXTY) cigarettes total in equivalent... OMG! That is DOUBLE than the 25-30 I used to smoke... no wonder I am feeling sick... and what troubles me, it has become a more or less a constant feeling... it subsides, craving comes in, I take a smoke/vape, craving subsides but the sick feeling comes in again... whether it is also psychological (guilt trip?), or I have really damaged my health seriously and irreversibly with THAT MUCH nic... God only knows.


Yeah, I know, I’m a sleezy weakling... I should simply be adamant and decisive and say “to hell with cigarettes and ecigs and liquids and nic and addictions, my health is more important to me than anything else”... and it is... really... in theory at least...


But I just can’t get rid of that bloody craving...




Hi, I’m checkmate.... and I’m an addict.








ANY comments or thoughts - whether positive or negative, advice, opinions, experiences... are MOST appreciated... Thank you all!

 

[nqabassist26]

You know, I can't say much about the sick feeling because I've never experienced it, and I can't give any insight as to your health. You should see a doctor if you really are worried about it, though.

In your case, which is similar to many that have vaped to rid of their smoking habit, I'd say the issue is mind over matter.

My smoking cravings didn't die down from vaping at the very beginning, it was almost like I was addicted to not just nicotine, but the taste of burning paper/tobacco and the "cruddy" feeling I got from smoking. It's hard to explain.

Just keep going, it's for your health's sake. After a while (it takes longer for some), you start to realize that cigarettes are actually pretty gross, and you won't enjoy them as much. I turned vaping into a hobby, and that really helped me keep my mind off analogs, and I slowly realized how disgusting they are and how awful they taste and make me feel.

You'll get there, you just have to let yourself.

 

[SolomonPierce]

My biggest problem with ecigs even now after a year of using them... (I've just never posted here =P) is that I can't get a consistent performance out of them. Sometimes I get th sometimes I don't, sometimes flavor, sometimes not. I'm not finally contributing to the forum myself for once because I want to ask advice as to how to proceed. I had been fairly analogue free up until July when I went to Europe, now I'm a smoker and vaper >.<

I need to find a consistent th pv so I can stop for good. That's the only thing I hate about them. I smoke american spirit blues so they have quite a kick but no added chemicals so luckily I just have to get the nicotine, no withdrawal from other substances. As long as I can get a mule kick to the throat th, I'll be happy!

 

[Wheazy]

I feel your pain...I still have an analog every now and then and I've been vaping a year and a half.

As to your current Nic intake, It seems like I've read on the forum that the nic intake from a analog to ecig isn't apples to apples. IOW, just because you vape 1 ml of 24 mg fluid doesn't mean you have absorbed 24mg of nic. I could be wrong in that but I swear I remember reading it somewhere on here.

this may just be me, but I find I have to alter my flavors and stregnths regurlarly. The taste seems to get stale if I vape for more that a few days on one flavor. I always keep 4-5 flavors on hand for this reason.

And for the times the cig craving gets really bad, I have some 30 mg Wyatt Earp Blend from Freedomsmoke USA. To me this has the best tobacco flavor and it usually satisfies me.

If you ask 30 vapers their opinions you will get 30 different responses. It all just boils down to finding what works for you.

I hope this helps and Good Luck on your journey...

 

[Wheazy]

My biggest problem with ecigs even now after a year of using them... (I've just never posted here =P) is that I can't get a consistent performance out of them. Sometimes I get th sometimes I don't, sometimes flavor, sometimes not. I'm not finally contributing to the forum myself for once because I want to ask advice as to how to proceed. I had been fairly analogue free up until July when I went to Europe, now I'm a smoker and vaper >.<

I need to find a consistent th pv so I can stop for good. That's the only thing I hate about them. I smoke american spirit blues so they have quite a kick but no added chemicals so luckily I just have to get the nicotine, no withdrawal from other substances. As long as I can get a mule kick to the throat th, I'll be happy!

There is definitely a learning curve to finding what works for you. I'm on my third PV and have done the switch from carts to cartos to dripping and am now researching tanks. For the best flavor...dripping with LR attys was the sweet spot for me, but it can be a hassle.

 

[NoMoreMondays]

Funny, you sound just like me around March of 2010!!! I quit analogs, because I could not stand that smell in my fresh cleaned clothes any longer and the fact that I had to crack the window in the truck open no matter how cold it was or how bad is was raining.

Anyways, you are doing just fine!!! Your sleeping problems are commonly called Insomnia. A side effect that some of us go through when quitting analogs. It is not related to the e-liquid, but rather to a nervousness caused by the cravings for an analog. You would be going through the same thing, if you went cold turkey, used the patch, or what-ever-else. Just to make sure, simply reduce nicotine content of your e-liquid evenings and nights to 18 mg. That sick feeling ... I would chalk that up to being nervous about 'too much nicotine' worries.

Your 1.5 mils are nothing compared to what I went through a day (roughly 3 mils). You do not have an uptake of 36 mg nicotine by consuming 1.5mils of 24mg e-liquid. While - to this date - there is no scientific study that would tell us exactly how much nicotine we are getting from our e-liquids, we do not inhale all the nicotine available in the e-liquid (otherwise we wouldn't bother posting about nicotine cravings on this forum).

I would suggest you up your liquid intake while reducing the number of analogs, if you can. Try to set yourself a goal as to how many analogs you'll be smoking every day for 2 weeks. After two weeks review your goal and maybe reduce analogs even further (like in "I'll be smoking only while listening to music" "... while watching the news" or "... while in the car" or the like).

You are trying to convince yourself of not being able to cut down on analogs, yet the fact that you are asking for help to do exactly that, is a sure sign that you aren't about to give up on that goal. Impressive! I'm pretty dang sure, you'll be here for a long time to come!

 

[hairball]

Your nicotine content in your juice is too high. That's what's causing you to feel sick and not sleep. Also, the math? Ignore it. We don't know how much nic is actually absorbed into our bodies. As for the cravings, we all went through it. The cravings are for all the other junk that's in cigarettes. Drink tons of water to flush your system out. It will pass and the cravings will die down.

 

[Codrut Popescu]

This is my 6th day only so I am a newbie just like you, but I do not feel any cravings at all. I enjoy vaping more than smoking. And I have been to pubs and in places where smoking is allowed and I was able to control myself. I felt the craving for a few seconds only when entering a place where people are smoking and I still was able to control myself by just vaping. I never had an analog and I do not intend to try one again. I am using an Ego-C (a good PV which I think it is essential) with 16 mg juice. I was 2 PAD and now I am vaping 4-5 ml/day. Whenever I feel like, I vape. This works for me! Maybe you should try to vape more with a lower concentration juice. For me, I am sure, it is more important the gesture of smoking than the nicotine itself.

 

[Denise D]

I started with 24mg and had similar reaction - shaky and insomnia. Tried some 12mg and it solved that overdose issue.

A stronger battery (Riva 1100 mAh) improved my vaping experience. I like dripping which does a better job for me of instant gratification and killing the crave for an analog. I also use a Riva 650 mAh with cartridge which doesn't deliver as well but is good for continuous vaping and just blowing a cloud. I'll probably upgrade these in the future but for now they are working out pretty well.

First thing in the morning I vape a drop or two of the 24mg but otherwise 12mg. I think I will try an 8 or 6mg for late evening, I probably don't need it so strong at night since that is when I am most likely to vape non-stop.

There are a lot of variables in finding the right vaping experience.

 

[Wartai]

Ive been vaping for around 6 weeks and started at 24mg for the first week, then had to drop it down to about 10mg..
Found that I could vape alot at that amount, I too smoked Lights when I did smoke..
A few times I did get the urge to have a smoke, but went for the ecig first, which always did the trick for me..
Every one is different, you just have to find what suits you the best..

 

[lilac7779]

I just want to say welcome to all you newbies and try to encourage you. Don't give up. If you slip and have an analog occasionally, don't be too hard on yourself. We are all human and all we can do is try our best.

 

[MegaBee]

Good luck and congrats for making it this far!!!


Last cigarette 16th October, 2011. Forever grateful for the support and advice from ECF.

 

[mtliu]

Just started a couple months ago. I am hooked! Still manage to do a couple analogs or less per day. But I have cut down severely. It's kind of like a new toy too.

 

[whitetortuga]

Welcome to the forums and I'm sorry you are having trouble. I have noticed that a lot of people seem to be craving more than just nicotine! Most of us when doing tobacco say "I can't quit, I need that nicotine!" Well, that isn't always the case. There is a lot more in those cigs than just nicotine.

I see that you mentioned studying. For me, a certain kind of chewing tobacco always got me through those tough hours of studying. No matter how much I vaped, I still felt like I needed a dip and a spitter to get me through it! And sometimes I did do just that! Don't feel ashamed that you are mixing a few analogs in there! They way I look at it: I've chewed and smoked for so long, I was making progress! I hope for you that there will be a day when you will kick them completely. Just don't feel bad if you aren't switched over 100%.

Although everyone in this forum has one goal, we are all reaching it at different strides. Some are quick, some are slow, and some seem to take every detour there is. One thing is for certain, people will be here to help you along the way! Just remember when times get tough, there are 1000s of people just like you making the same journey!

Best of luck to you!

 

[TomC]

I was a pack and a half a day Marlboro Red smoker for 40 years. Finally decided I needed to cut down so I started vaping when I was watching TV, reading at home, etc. My intention was to reduce the number of analogs I smoked in a day. For the first week or so I basically cut my cigarette consumption down to about 5 analogs a day, vaping like a mad man on 24 mg juice with a Halo G6. (Loved their Tribeca Juice).

One day, I challenged myself to try not to smoke an analog. To my surprise, it wasn't that bad. Don't get me wrong, I still thought about firing one up, but a couple of deep pulls on my G6 kept me from caving. One day turns into two, etc. etc.

I read somewhere on the forum that the nicotine consumption rates for e-cigs are much lower than with analogs due to the fact that water vapor isn't absorbed by the lungs as readily as smoke vapor. Don't know if this is urban myth or not.

I now have been analog free for a while, down to 12 mg juice and I even now enjoy some non-tobacco juices. I now find that I can go a long time (if my mind is occupied with something) without even thinking about vaping and don't even feel serious cravings. The only screw up I had was on vacation, in a bar in Nicaragua, watching the Ohio State - Nebraska football game and my e-cig battery died. I broke down and bought a pack of Marlboros ($1.50 in Nicaragua) and promptly smoked a bunch watching the Buckeyes blow a big lead.

I thimk a previous poster hit it suggesting you lower you nicotine level. I would find a vendor that ships for free and get a couple of small samples at 12 or 18.

Good luck

 

[Hoosier]

Maybe I have a different take, but I read your post as someone who's worrying quite a bit over the tiny things. Going through some detox and taking a stimulant, like nicotine, makes insomnia seem pretty normal. Using nicotine for a concentration booster, yeah, that's pretty normal. Getting distracted and taking enough nicotine in to make yourself woozy, yeah, that happens to me still to this day.

What I do not see is thought into what could turn this vaping thing into a full switch-over. I'm going to use my own story:

When I got my first PV I also got a few juices, all tobacco flavors, with 12 and 24mg nicotine levels. Quite frankly, it tasted pretty bad, but I could detect something about it that could work. I vaped when I could and smoked when I had to without worrying about quitting. I kept trying different nicotine levels in different tobacco flavors trying to find something that would give me some real satisfaction, but I just kept vaping when I could and smoking when I had to.

I finally found a nicotine level that did something for me, over 36mg, but I was still not satisfied with just vapor and the taste was still a bit of a turn off. I smoked when I had to and vaped when I could. At this point I was going through 3-4ml a day and about a pack of non-filtered American Spirits every 5 days. For some reason, my body felt OK with the nicotine that was coming from the vape, but to get some real satisfaction I had to smoke my cigarettes even though it often made me a bit woosy from too much nic. (The nicotine from a cig absorbs MUCH quicker than vaping.) The cigarettes gave me what I call "satisfaction" that my tobacco flavored juices of all these different types just could not do even with 36mg and higher concentrations.

One day, really as a joke aimed at myself, I ordered one of those weird food flavored juices in 36mg. I knew I was going to hate it, but thought it would be worth a chuckle if nothing else. When it came I had the family gather round and made a big production out of how horrible this was going to taste and to get cameras ready to capture the face I was going to make. Loaded it up and vaped. Huh, vaped again...took another vape, a real big one and exhaled. My brain assigned a satisfaction to the flavor. Armed with this juice, I still vaped when I could and smoked when I had to, but I smoked even less. First it was a cig during the morning drive to work and one after dinner that became common. As time went on I sometimes forgot one or the other of those 2, but I always smoked at least one cigarette a day.

One day I was getting ready to leave the house, for work, and noticed the pack I was putting in my pocket was missing one cigarette. (We always check the number of sticks in the pack, don't we?) I remembered that I was missing one when I put it in my pocket the day before. I had forgotten to smoke. If anyone would have told me that I could just simply forget to smoke before that, the best response they could have gotten from me was a laugh and a comparison to forgetting to breathe. It was simply unbelievable.

So, I tell that long, drawn out story, and wonder why you have not been trying different strengths? What kinds of flavors have you tried? Have you attempted to go outside your "comfort zone" in juice flavors? What are you doing to make the vapor work for you? You can do all the math you want, do all the worry pacing in the world, but what are you doing for you?

If I come off as a raging ......, I do apologize, but you did ask for ANY comments or suggestions. Asking something like that to a person like me carrys a risk...

BTW: Welcome back to ECF and I hope your journey is filled with things you never expected!

 

[sandybeach]

Great replies, everyone!

I am pretty new at vaping, too. One month, to be exact. I am still going through a learning curve. If I vape a lot at night, I can't sleep. Usually I vape 18 mg. What I started doing is cutting down to 4 mg. at night. I still have can't sleep if I vape a lot at night. I vape a LOT more than I smoked. Maybe because it tastes good, maybe because I feel like something's missing. I haven't had an analog in two weeks. Just don't want one. But if I did want a cigarette, I would have one.

I think you are doing fine!
Sandy

 

[Retriever]

Congratulations on what you have accomplished, and you have accomplished some great things! You are learning what is right for you and that takes some time. I started at 36mg nic liquid and found it too harsh. Now at 24 mg I am satisfied. For tons of throat hit try some cinnamon flavors. Glad you have posted!

 

[Jammin246]

I find that changing the flavors up helps... And food flavors help. But smoke when ya gotta and vape when ya can worked for me...

 

[vafromnc]

Hi, I’m checkmate.... and I’m an addict.

Me, too. And it's not just the nicotine. That's how Big Tobacco became big.