A word of caution.

Status
Not open for further replies.

VpnDrgn

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 21, 2010
1,310
382
Gulfport, MS.
I wanted to put this in the new member forum, but I am obviously not a new member.
Maybe one of the mods will copy it there.

I am not a doctor or a chemist, so take this as you will. :)

I have seen post in the past about great ideas for alternative atomizers,
and recent post about different means of using nicotine liquids, and I
wanted to put out a warning for a little caution.

While there has been no clinical studies on the effects of long term vaping,
or the cumulative effects of the combined ingredients we use for juice,
I am sure the original designers of the e-cig consulted with doctors and/or
chemists to determine if the liquid components could be "vaporized" safely.
If for no other reason than to avoid killing or grossly effecting the health of
their customer base.

This brings me to a few points I want to make to people who like to experiment.

-- Atomizers are designed to operate at a certain range of temperatures, this is
because the components in PG and VG are only safe to vaporize at certain temps.
An example, some chemicals in VG will change to poisonous variants if heated
over a certain temp. Does this mean you are going to release a cloud of poison gas
on your handmade atty? No ( I hope not :facepalm: ), but the cumulative effect of
vaping this poison will/could hurt you.

-- Nicotine is a POISON. This is a fact, but so is the fact that caffeine is a poison.
Even if you use nicotine juice in the way it is meant to be used, you can over do
it and make your self very sick. Can it kill you? IMO no, You would have to continue
vaping through some very debilitating effects to make the nic levels high enough
to kill. That's not to discount the possibility of a combination of circumstances
creating a "perfect storm", so to speak, and causing serious harm.
An example, two recent post suggested either adding nicotine to a drink, or using
it like snuss in a homemade wad. First, nicotine and gastric juice do not mix, why do
you think chew and dip are spit out instead of swallowed. It will almost certainly
make you nauseous and, depending on the levels of nicotine, may do damage to
your stomach or bowels. Second, nicotine is a vascular constrictor ( hope I got the
terms right ), putting a concentrated dosage on your gums and cheek will restrict
blood to that area, and repeatedly doing so, may cause irreversible damage.

-- This last is more about equipment than chemicals. Lithium Ion batts are used
because they provide the most storage capacity for size, and the best ( or the best that
is feasibly applicable ) means of efficient delivery of power. They are still a relatively
new application though. That's why they aren't readily available. Although they are the
best means for our application, they still have a very narrow range of operation, and are
pushed to the limit of that range in most e-cig uses. Our uses demand higher amps and
higher current discharge rates than most equipment that uses these batts. Luckily, it
appears that the mnf's have recognized our needs and are coming out with batts that
are safer ( note I said safer not "safe" ) for our uses. If you are not an EE, or someone
used to designing electronics, that can take into account all the variables of amps, voltage,
and current, please be careful. You could very easily design the next great MOD that gives
you a great vape the first 10 times you use it, then explodes 2" from your face the 11th time.

I am sorry this ran so long, and if you read this far, thank you.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that while vaping is safer than smoking,
it could very easily be abused, and the consequences could be devastating.

Please use a little common sense when trying out new things, and by all means,
do a lot of reading in the ECF library to get a better grasp of this great alternative
for smoking.

Vape on people :vapor:
 

fray

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Jan 13, 2011
1,555
518
arkansas
www.ejoose.com
I didn't find anything inaccurate there. I appreciate you didn't make it sound like a scare tactic. Common sense and good judgement will prevent most bad things that could possible happen to you from e cigs.

Lithium batteries do scare the crap out of me, so I use caution as much as I can. (especially with charging)
 

VpnDrgn

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 21, 2010
1,310
382
Gulfport, MS.
Thanks, I didn't want it to come across as one of those "OMG did you know this!" threads.

A little reasonable precaution and some common sense should prevent anyone from harming themselves.
But, there are always those that will jump into something with misconceptions because they didn't
take the time to fully grasp a new concept. And then they run around like Chicken Little when it
doesn't work the way they figured.

Point in case : The FDA did a study on several nicotine carts from China. They found 3 ( I think it was 3 )
carts that had a carcinogenic compound in it. That compound happened to be one of the elements in
antifreeze. What they didn't point out in the summary that was released to the public, was that the level
of the compound was not even detectable by the standard test. It only showed up in a specialized
secondary test, and that the level was so low ( 1/40,000th of a percent ? ), that vaping enough to reach
poisonous levels was not feasible.

Of course, the #1 battle cry of the anti-ecig fanatics is "It has antifreeze in it!".
 

Iffy

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 3, 2011
9,626
79,411
Florida Suncoast
I'm more concerned about FDA inspected products with e. coli than I am about anything related to vaping. Just my prioritized
2cents.gif
!
 

Natalia

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 27, 2010
3,231
6,259
California
Very well written VpnDrgn, not the "sky is falling" hype I've read elsewhere. Common sense and research are our friends.

I agree with fray, the scariest part of vaping to me is the batteries. I'm constantly checking them when charging, would never think of leaving the house or even sleeping during that time. As soon as I have one that doesn't perform in a way I'm comfortable with, off to the battery recycle it goes.

Thank you for a great post!
 

fray

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Jan 13, 2011
1,555
518
arkansas
www.ejoose.com
Thanks for the health info. I never realized how PG and VG could be affected simply by the temp at which it's heated.

The amount of heat needed to break down the VG is pretty high. Atomizers do have the ability to get hot enough, but I think anyone would stop vaping as it would be like a dry atty taste from from hell.

I wish I had the specific temperatures but I am on my phone with limited searching capabilities. There was a thread going around last December or so that went into detail.
 

Doberz

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 19, 2010
530
64
NW Indiana
www.facebook.com
An example, two recent post suggested either adding nicotine to a drink, or using
it like snuss in a homemade wad.

I never "suggested" someone drink e-juice. I was just sharing my own experience. Please don't over exaggerate things I've said.

I have to admit though, the original thread topic was ridiculous. You don't just "drink" or make wads of fake snus out of e-juice...
 

VpnDrgn

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 21, 2010
1,310
382
Gulfport, MS.
I don't feel I exaggerated anything, I was not trying to point fingers or name names.
I do feel that if you post your experience with drinking nicotine in a thread named "alternative methods",
that would imply a "suggestion". Of course, that is my opinion only.

After reading some posts about experimenting with means and methods, I felt I needed to post a
cautionary warning about experimenting with what is in fact a poison. Obviously I am going to use the most
recent posts I had read as examples, but there are many posts about experimenting with juice and
hardware.

Experimenting is a good thing in general, it is how we have come so far developing PV's and juice.
I merely wanted to point out that people need to be as knowledgeable as possible with all the
permutations of what their experiments may do or not do.

I was trying to point out ways that things could go wrong with specific examples of recent posts of experiments.
 

x-smok3

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 1, 2011
441
161
Tennessee
I agree and thank you for your post. I read the threads you were referring to and felt they were over the top. I was particularly worried about the one who was vaping 50mg liquid. I hope that was a typo. IMO these experiments are what get people seriously sick and give ammunition to those who want to ban the sale of E-liquid.
 

wdave

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 11, 2009
1,491
115
Cincinnati, OH
I don't feel I exaggerated anything, I was not trying to point fingers or name names.
I do feel that if you post your experience with drinking nicotine in a thread named "alternative methods",
that would imply a "suggestion". Of course, that is my opinion only.

After reading some posts about experimenting with means and methods, I felt I needed to post a
cautionary warning about experimenting with what is in fact a poison. Obviously I am going to use the most
recent posts I had read as examples, but there are many posts about experimenting with juice and
hardware.

Experimenting is a good thing in general, it is how we have come so far developing PV's and juice.
I merely wanted to point out that people need to be as knowledgeable as possible with all the
permutations of what their experiments may do or not do.

I was trying to point out ways that things could go wrong with specific examples of recent posts of experiments.

There is no need to explain yourself. Even if isn't all true, hearing opinions from both sides is very helpful. Especially for teenagerd who might be picking up ecigs for the wrong reasons.

And I liked you "matter of fact" presentation. No hint of fanatisim.

Stay around the forum. You are being very helpful.

Dave
 

Doberz

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 19, 2010
530
64
NW Indiana
www.facebook.com
I don't feel I exaggerated anything, I was not trying to point fingers or name names.
I do feel that if you post your experience with drinking nicotine in a thread named "alternative methods",
that would imply a "suggestion". Of course, that is my opinion only.

After reading some posts about experimenting with means and methods, I felt I needed to post a
cautionary warning about experimenting with what is in fact a poison. Obviously I am going to use the most
recent posts I had read as examples, but there are many posts about experimenting with juice and
hardware.

Experimenting is a good thing in general, it is how we have come so far developing PV's and juice.
I merely wanted to point out that people need to be as knowledgeable as possible with all the
permutations of what their experiments may do or not do.

I was trying to point out ways that things could go wrong with specific examples of recent posts of experiments.

Maybe it was my fault for not pointing it out that I don't recommend it. I've read enough threads on these forums over the past couple years to know it's not a good idea. When I did it, it was only because I couldn't vap or smoke for 8 hours straight and I'd start to go nuts. What I did consume, was only a drop or two of some low MG juice. And it was only on a few occasions. Even at that though, I still wouldn't recommend it to someone to try. I really was just trying to share my experience. You should post on that other thread about the cautions, because I just happened to stumble across this one. The original poster seems to be more clueless to the cautions of consuming e-juice in other ways than vaping it.
 

LadyLynx

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 8, 2011
854
794
WA
There are risks and rewards to everything we do. Chili paste is safe to eat but when you fry the crap out of it and create a noxious cloud of pepper evilness, much suffering insues.

What I do agree with is that from the experiences of my personal health improvement, the ecig or PV is certainly a better alternative for me, than analogs. It is always good to share and analyze the information we have, and I like to see questions and debates brought up. Thought provoking converstation and differing opinions provides us the extra brain synapses (synapsi?) to further articulate discussion.
 

Longhorn RN

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 4, 2011
91
36
Texas
Thanks for the OP! So many times we all agree about the "seemingly obvious" and we forget that there are many people that may be naive, under-researched or like stated above, teens that do not respect vaping and what is about or for. Knowledge and the infamous "gut feeling" of second guessing is under-rated. I am so glad that I found vaping and it has changed my life for the better but not without ALOT of research.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread