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About Low Resistance and Specific batteries

Discussion in 'MadVapes' started by hoogie76, Oct 5, 2010.

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  1. tybin

    tybin ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 17, 2010
    WA
    if you are using gp lr attys, they have a higher ohm so it should be fine.
     
  2. amayameda

    amayameda Full Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Anaheim
    Wait... LR Atties from some vendors are safe? Ah drat! Now my brain won't let me quit until I find out if mine is... um... of a safe "ohm".
     
  3. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    I might have to check them out. I don't really like to do Low Resistance, but if I could find some higher ohm Low Resistance attys, or maybe some lower ohm High Voltage attys (I only do 3.7 volts) then maybe I wouldn't be stuck using medium ohm Standard Resistance attys.

    or not.
     
  4. vapspaz

    vapspaz Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 21, 2010
    SC
    Unless I missed something here you should NOT think of LR atties as "NOT SAFE". They are "SAFE" but will shorten the life span of your PV. Somewhere back a few pages in this thread this has already been clarified by someone (can't remember who) but they stated this very well. Basically YOU need to make the decision if you are willing to shorten the life of your power source (battery) for a better vape. And keep in mind that these things ARE disposable anyhow so they are gonna die sooner OR later no matter what.
     
  5. vapspaz

    vapspaz Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 21, 2010
    SC

    Found the post that I was referring to. As usual they were great informative post from Zen and Jonny.


     
  6. amayameda

    amayameda Full Member

    Nov 12, 2010
    Anaheim
    Ok, I guess I didn't choose my wording carefully. I didn't mean to imply that LR= Death. I just meant "safe" to use without risk of signifigantly decreasing the life of the battery. Sorry if my bad diction ruffled feathers.
     
  7. vapspaz

    vapspaz Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 21, 2010
    SC
    LOL Ya gotta go a long ways to ruffle my feathers. I misunderstood your post and was just trying to help is all.
     
  8. Sdh

    Sdh ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2010
    U.S.
    I am currently using a gp mega LR atty for my 900 battery. Yes it draws twice the power. I am far from being an electronics expert. It does take twice the power. So my battery won't last as long. Instead of 4-5 months it will be dead sooner. (I hope I can get 2 months). The bottom line for me is....it is worth it for the hit of a LR atty. Until I step up with a mod or whatever.(Very confused on upgrades.)

    Until I started LR I was tempted by analogs. Now I don't have that urge. I was smoking two cigs a day. Now I am down to one until my pack is gone. I am done with analogs finally since changing to the LR. I still will use cartomizers for driving, work, and outdoors.

    I just hope the TW LR atties are like GP.
     
  9. Scottbee

    Scottbee Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2009
    Okauchee Lake, WI
    I have 4 Rivas and 2 eGo/Tornado units that I use in a haphazard rotation. Been using these same batteries for the better part of this year... and most of them look pretty rough. The paint is scratched, the chrome and "gold" accents are discolored... they've had a rough life. Through all of that, I've only had one "cell" (not battery system) "go soft" and not deliver decent voltage or capacity. Just one.

    I believe most of the hype that these batteries are good for between 200 and 400 discharge cycles. It makes sense that using a higher discharge (or charge) current will reduce this number, but I've seen NOTHING that leads me to believe that the reduction due to going from 2.5 to 1.5 Ohms is "substantial" or "dramatic".

    As I mentioned before, if your atty or cartomizer drops into the 1 Ohm range the eGo/Riva MOSFET will fail (exploiting the flaw in the protection circuitry). But I have seen absolutely nothing that leads me to believe that you won't get a nice long, healthy life out of one of these systems if the atty/cartomizer doesn't "go defective" and stays at 1.5 Ohms or above.
     
  10. Zen~

    Zen~ Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    Spencerport, NY
    It seems to me that your sample set on which you have based your hypothesis may be a wee bit too small to come to that conclusion, as compared to the supplier that has seen enough returns to have warranted the creation of this thread.

    I believe you have had that experience, but that's a far cry from a large enough sampling to categorically state folks will experience a long healthy life from the product.

    Not that it matters, because the LR atty is worth the risk, whether it exists or not.
     
  11. Scottbee

    Scottbee Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2009
    Okauchee Lake, WI
    I believe that virtually every unit that Hoogie has had come back has failed either due to DOA, or a blown MOSFET.

    Unless he corrects me on that, I'll maintain my opinion.

    P.S. I'm the unofficial repair/analysis depot for one of the larger suppliers in the Midwest...... I've seen more than a few "popped" eGo's.

    P.P.S. I should probably add that I don't much care. I don't have a horse in the race, I just wanted people to understand what I believe is the real failure mechanism and to subdue some festering fears and misconceptions.
     
  12. NCC

    NCC Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 14, 2010
    Fla Panhandle, USA
    I'm sorry. Today I read most of this information packed thread. Unfortunately, I hadn't done that before I made Post #177, and it seems to me now that my post was a bit of a faux pas. Sorry.

    Oh, and thanks y'all, I learned a lot by reading and researching further some of the terminology which was unfamiliar to me. :)
     
  13. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Scott,
    you are sort of being unfair to the poor ignorant vapers out their (not a reference to any posters in this thread) that can't seem to relate to their e-cig as a piece of electronic equipment rather than a tobacco cigarette that takes very little thought to operate. I myself don't have a large enough sample to determine root cause or calculate failure rates, but I have this sense that those less astute vapors will experience more failures than those that pay attention to how their e-cig is working. I have not experienced a single failure with the "few" eGos and ego look alikes that I have access to (the wife's stash). I have cast off models that have failed but other than a mechanical and electrical postmortem, cannot actually determine the operating conditions that let to failure. Just the results of what happened when it did fail.
    Maybe different models of the eGo clones use different components but I thought most used a controller based on the DW01 Li-ion protection circuit. Does the Joye eGo use this chip?
    The protection board in the cheap 18650 batteries does. The two stage short circuit/over current detection using Mosfet voltage drop under fire :) seems to allow currents up to 4 amps through the 8501 Mosfet used on these boards. Maybe that is too much for the Mosfets used in the eGo. Or, maybe you are correct that the manufacturer picked the wrong Mosfet in the first place (incorrect on resistance to allow controller to detect over current properly). Or, maybe just too much dissipation, and the Mosfet bites the dust. Now, granted, these cheap cells aren't 100% reliable, but 4 amps should take care of anything an eGo user "should" be throwing at it.

    Mosfet failures being the weakest link? or design flaw? My money is on the Mosfet failing being the second highest failure, behind the first place winner, "users caused failures", then of course coming in a close third is manufacturing Quality Control.
    Your low failure rate, is due to your finesse in operating a device that you know the inner workings of. Not fair :).

    and for the benefit of those that have no idea what's inside and couple photos. A Hello 16 crispy critter, and a Li-ion protection board.


    EDIT: the chip used in the ego types is not the DW01. I spoke before putting on the 'Thick' glasses.
     
  14. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Just to save you the trouble, I'll post my own reply to my previous post.

    Rocket,
    You are obviously delusional about your knowledge of e-cig secret inner workings. Not being as smart as I am, and having a much cooler avatar, how dare you question my superior expertise and experience. I am the one that "puts" the smoke in these magic chips in the first place.

    :)
    Please note the included smiley.
     
  15. Zen~

    Zen~ Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    Spencerport, NY
    Ok, that's funny right there...
     
  16. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    I might have to wait until the wife goes to sleep and take a good Ego apart, and accuse her of losing one.
    Kind of hard to trace out the circuit on the popped ones, especially when all the circuit isn't there :)
    I just might have a tendency to pick on folks that don't want to accept blame when it's their fault when a product fails. Sure it would be better it they would include the $2 monkey proof circuit in them, but that would just drive up the cost.
    How many times have you read a complaining post and just felt the poster just doesn't get it?
    Do I think Scottbee knows his Egos? Sure I do, and I'm sure he can also picture in his mind the Mosfet channel opening up, and the electrons running around in there stirring up the smoke with each puff.
    But, I do have to try and liven things up around here.
     
  17. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    I just took apart another Ego clone, the Vgo and the circuit is much different than the hello 16 in the photo I posted.
    It does not use the same circuitry. Still haven't traced it out or tried to cross the chips used but it is different.
    So, everything I said with respect to someone's bad design comment just might be due to my ignorance of what is inside a genuine Ego, which may be even different yet (wife is still awake).
    I should have realized the circuit was different because the DW01 does not have the means to flash the cute little LED at you. Everyone knows how much we love that feature :)
     
  18. Zen~

    Zen~ Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    Spencerport, NY
    How do you get them apart?
     
  19. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    On the Hello16 there is a small gap between covers and shell. More like an edge, I vise the little sucker up and use a box cutter blade as a sharp little chisel. Tap with cutest little ball peen hammer until it starts to separate. Cut wire from bat neg to bottom cover and push it all out the top. There's probably a special tool that the repair guys get :)

    And, I be backtracking even more. The Hello16 doesn't use the DW01 chip either. My bad.
    The reason I'm interested is to come up with an off the shelf cheap controller board, like less than a dollar. The protection board is close to doing it, but would not do everything "off the shelf". That, and I like telling people that most of their failres are their fault :)
     
  20. Scottbee

    Scottbee Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2009
    Okauchee Lake, WI
    Ya saved me some typin'....

    Thanks!

    ;-)
     
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