I was gonna use the 1.5 Ω atomizer I just bought with my inferno from volcano. It is a 1000mah 3.7V battery. Will that atomizer burn out my inferno or can it take it. Should I look to the 2.0Ω atomizer instead. They say the thing is made to work well with the cisco LR306 so I am assuming it can take LR atomizers. Any advice would be appreciated.
About Low Resistance and Specific batteries
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I would use the 2.0Ω to be honest.
Incidently, just got the wife's new Volcano Inferno kit in today and the big battery in the set is no good. Only pushing 2.3 volts.
Incidently, just got the wife's new Volcano Inferno kit in today and the big battery in the set is no good. Only pushing 2.3 volts.
I'm coming in way late on this thread and I really, really wish I had seen it earlier. I have a position and opinion that differs from many of the sentiments stated here.
First off, please keep in mind that I'm probably one of the few people on this forum who actually replaces the MOSFET in his eGo/Riva class batteries. I do it on a somewhat regular basis and I know the characteristics of the MOSFET and the controller (PCB) pretty well. I have bench tested the snot out of these components.
The eGo/Riva MOSFET can and will happily deliver current to a "standard" LR (1.5Ω) in perpetuity without nary a whimper. I have never seen or had a MOSFET fail when delivering current into a standard and healthy LR atomizer/cartomizer. This represents about 2A of current, and on the bench the MOSFET can easily handle it.
The eGo/Riva MOSFET will absolutely and certainly fail when you try to run about 3A through it. This represents about a 1Ω load resistance for the eGo/Riva systems.
The eGo/Riva controller has a form of "short-circuit" protection. If you put a "dead short" (below about .5Ω actually) across the system, the controller will sense it and shut down, protecting the MOSFET. This works fine.
There is a known flaw in the protection circuit though. If you put a 3A (~1Ω) load on the system the short-circuit protection will not detect this as being a "short" and it will not protect the MOSFET or cell. Invariably the MOSFET will fail.
EVERY TIME that I have replaced a MOSFET in one of these systems I have been able to trace it back to an atomizer or cartomizer (either LR or SR) that for one reason or another had dropped to between .5Ω and 1Ω in resistance. Every time.
As an interesting additional data point. I almost exclusively use Bauway 1.8Ω LR atties that I buy from Madvapes. Invariably, after using them for a few days (heavy use, VG dark liquid) I can sense a change in vaping characteristics (warmer, heavier vape). If I pull the atty and test it I will often find that it is now running 1.5Ω or so. I could go into a lengthy explanation as to why this is happening (most people would expect it to "go open"), but I'll save that for another post.
If I don't do anything about this and continue to use the atty, it is not unusual for it to drop to 1.3Ω within the next day or so. If I'm unlucky, it will just quickly drop to 1Ω... and I will lose a MOSFET.
And before one says that this is a "LR atty only problem", I have seen similar things happen with "standard" Joye atties and the "standard" Boge cartomizers that my wife uses.
So my essential point is... this isn't a "LR atty only" issue (but it does seem to occur more often with the LR units) and it is NOT due to a 1.5Ω-1.8Ω load drawing more current than the MOSFET can deliver. This is largely due to the resistance of the atty/cartomizer changing with time and use.. and a FLAW in the load-sensing protection circuit in the eGo/Riva class systems.
First off, please keep in mind that I'm probably one of the few people on this forum who actually replaces the MOSFET in his eGo/Riva class batteries. I do it on a somewhat regular basis and I know the characteristics of the MOSFET and the controller (PCB) pretty well. I have bench tested the snot out of these components.
The eGo/Riva MOSFET can and will happily deliver current to a "standard" LR (1.5Ω) in perpetuity without nary a whimper. I have never seen or had a MOSFET fail when delivering current into a standard and healthy LR atomizer/cartomizer. This represents about 2A of current, and on the bench the MOSFET can easily handle it.
The eGo/Riva MOSFET will absolutely and certainly fail when you try to run about 3A through it. This represents about a 1Ω load resistance for the eGo/Riva systems.
The eGo/Riva controller has a form of "short-circuit" protection. If you put a "dead short" (below about .5Ω actually) across the system, the controller will sense it and shut down, protecting the MOSFET. This works fine.
There is a known flaw in the protection circuit though. If you put a 3A (~1Ω) load on the system the short-circuit protection will not detect this as being a "short" and it will not protect the MOSFET or cell. Invariably the MOSFET will fail.
EVERY TIME that I have replaced a MOSFET in one of these systems I have been able to trace it back to an atomizer or cartomizer (either LR or SR) that for one reason or another had dropped to between .5Ω and 1Ω in resistance. Every time.
As an interesting additional data point. I almost exclusively use Bauway 1.8Ω LR atties that I buy from Madvapes. Invariably, after using them for a few days (heavy use, VG dark liquid) I can sense a change in vaping characteristics (warmer, heavier vape). If I pull the atty and test it I will often find that it is now running 1.5Ω or so. I could go into a lengthy explanation as to why this is happening (most people would expect it to "go open"), but I'll save that for another post.
If I don't do anything about this and continue to use the atty, it is not unusual for it to drop to 1.3Ω within the next day or so. If I'm unlucky, it will just quickly drop to 1Ω... and I will lose a MOSFET.
And before one says that this is a "LR atty only problem", I have seen similar things happen with "standard" Joye atties and the "standard" Boge cartomizers that my wife uses.
So my essential point is... this isn't a "LR atty only" issue (but it does seem to occur more often with the LR units) and it is NOT due to a 1.5Ω-1.8Ω load drawing more current than the MOSFET can deliver. This is largely due to the resistance of the atty/cartomizer changing with time and use.. and a FLAW in the load-sensing protection circuit in the eGo/Riva class systems.
Scott,
You reinforce a point that I like to make to anyone having failure problems with their e-cig. It's usually "your fault".
Not paying attention to performance, just blindly sucking and hoping someone gets satisfaction from it
)) justs sets the individual up for failure. Repeated, like over and over, failure.
It's nice to know how things work on the inside, but not necessary. The human brain has the capability to develop a fine control of high technology devices without knowing what's inside. Sort of like sensing yield in a fastener without a torque wrench.
I don't have many failures with e-cig components. Most are 'adequately' designed with at least one 'weakest link'.
The voltage drop resulting from mosfet on resistance, that increases with current, being used to detect an overcurrent condition, protects the system but sacrifices the mosfet. Some think that a bigger, meaner mosfet is the answer, and like you, a design flaw. But moving the 'weakest link' further up the performance curve would end up hurting the 'dumber' vapers that vape blind. You know, women that vape
You reinforce a point that I like to make to anyone having failure problems with their e-cig. It's usually "your fault".
Not paying attention to performance, just blindly sucking and hoping someone gets satisfaction from it
)) justs sets the individual up for failure. Repeated, like over and over, failure. It's nice to know how things work on the inside, but not necessary. The human brain has the capability to develop a fine control of high technology devices without knowing what's inside. Sort of like sensing yield in a fastener without a torque wrench.
I don't have many failures with e-cig components. Most are 'adequately' designed with at least one 'weakest link'
.The voltage drop resulting from mosfet on resistance, that increases with current, being used to detect an overcurrent condition, protects the system but sacrifices the mosfet. Some think that a bigger, meaner mosfet is the answer, and like you, a design flaw. But moving the 'weakest link' further up the performance curve would end up hurting the 'dumber' vapers that vape blind. You know, women that vape
On that note, I think I'll pull up a chair and watch the fireworks.Scott,
But moving the 'weakest link' further up the performance curve would end up hurting the 'dumber' vapers that vape blind. You know, women that vape
Fireworks? Why?
Scott: Serious question.
Is it a possibility that the undervoltage sensing circuit in the eGo controller allows the voltage to get low enough that the mosfet is not "full on" and in a slightly elevated on-resistance condition increasing the dissipation? D to S voltage drop under load conditions also reduces the effective G to S voltage, I think.
Vaping until low voltage cutoff could be killing some of these.
Thoughts?
Scott: Serious question.
Is it a possibility that the undervoltage sensing circuit in the eGo controller allows the voltage to get low enough that the mosfet is not "full on" and in a slightly elevated on-resistance condition increasing the dissipation? D to S voltage drop under load conditions also reduces the effective G to S voltage, I think.
Vaping until low voltage cutoff could be killing some of these.
Thoughts?
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ya i must say i was a little offended by the woman remark ...
On that note, I think I'll pull up a chair and watch the fireworks.
Scott,
Some think that a bigger, meaner mosfet is the answer, and like you, a design flaw. But moving the 'weakest link' further up the performance curve would end up hurting the 'dumber' vapers that vape blind. You know, women that vape
Ummm... I personally don't think that a bigger, meaner MOSFET is the answer at all, and that's not the "design flaw". The "design flaw" in my (strong) opinion is that the "short circuit" protection on the controller is poorly done.. and while it will properly sense a resistance dropping below .5Ω or so... it will not properly sense and protect itself when the resistance is in the 1Ω range. And it should. At that resistance level the MOSFET will certainly fail, and the protection circuitry should disable the system before that happens.
My runtogether sentence structure set me up for that one.
I haven't looked into the eGo circuit like you have. Doesn't the eGo sense the "full on" voltage drop across the fet to measure current?
The comparator probably has two pre-programmed over current trigger points, one for short circuit and one for just plain over current. If only one trip point, that is a weakness. If the overcurrent trip point is too high, I agree, a weakness in design. By bigger/meaner I was referring to those that want a 400 volt 60 amp fet in a heat sinked TO-220 case in their mods.
What about the "almost discharged" performance of the fet? Have you found that "turn on" is weaker, possibly contributing to thermal destruction?
Wasn't intended to be confrontational.
I like following your groundbreaking diggings into the eGo.
set me up for that one. I haven't looked into the eGo circuit like you have. Doesn't the eGo sense the "full on" voltage drop across the fet to measure current?
The comparator probably has two pre-programmed over current trigger points, one for short circuit and one for just plain over current. If only one trip point, that is a weakness. If the overcurrent trip point is too high, I agree, a weakness in design. By bigger/meaner I was referring to those that want a 400 volt 60 amp fet in a heat sinked TO-220 case in their mods.
What about the "almost discharged" performance of the fet? Have you found that "turn on" is weaker, possibly contributing to thermal destruction?
Wasn't intended to be confrontational.
I like following your groundbreaking diggings into the eGo.
The eGo works perfectly for it's targeted price point.
If you want to tow a 32ft fishing boat with a Dodge Neon, have at it. It will do it for a while...but not for long. We can talk all day about dropping a V8 into it and a beefed up drivetrain and even a heavy duty suspension to get the job done better. It's still a POS Neon...that now costs twice as much....and nobody would buy it.
If you want to tow a 32ft fishing boat with a Dodge Neon, have at it. It will do it for a while...but not for long. We can talk all day about dropping a V8 into it and a beefed up drivetrain and even a heavy duty suspension to get the job done better. It's still a POS Neon...that now costs twice as much....and nobody would buy it.
It's nice to have an explanation as to why it fails, though, it's still going to fail when used by a large and growing segment of eGo users that are not Vaping Hobbyists.
Contrary to the opinions of some folks on ECF, A PV should be a simple device that is used as a nicotine delivery replacement for Analogs. They want a device that doesn't turn into a long involved daily chore of testing atty or carto resistance, juicing up, rotating stock and making ready for the next day of nicotine replacement.
Some have turned vaping into a hobby of sorts, others simply cannot be bothered by it. Those that don't perform due diligence will blow up eGos, and for them, the eGo was probably a bad choice. The eGo with an LR atty/carto then, by default, would be an exceptionally bad choice as that combo is more likely to fail sooner than using SR.
While the explanation is good to know... in the grand scheme of things the eGo LR combo is probably NOT the device to be suggesting to the casual user, as they are being led down a path to disatisfaction. And while we're on the subject, my pet peeve is seeing folks suggesting exactly this combination to newbs that are seeking advice on which eCig to purchase. It's almost the opposite of what should be happening.
This was some very useful information about the inner workings of a device that is nearly universally touted as the "one to have" to our newest converts. And like I said, it's nice to know why it fails, but ultimately...
It fails
Contrary to the opinions of some folks on ECF, A PV should be a simple device that is used as a nicotine delivery replacement for Analogs. They want a device that doesn't turn into a long involved daily chore of testing atty or carto resistance, juicing up, rotating stock and making ready for the next day of nicotine replacement.
Some have turned vaping into a hobby of sorts, others simply cannot be bothered by it. Those that don't perform due diligence will blow up eGos, and for them, the eGo was probably a bad choice. The eGo with an LR atty/carto then, by default, would be an exceptionally bad choice as that combo is more likely to fail sooner than using SR.
While the explanation is good to know... in the grand scheme of things the eGo LR combo is probably NOT the device to be suggesting to the casual user, as they are being led down a path to disatisfaction. And while we're on the subject, my pet peeve is seeing folks suggesting exactly this combination to newbs that are seeking advice on which eCig to purchase. It's almost the opposite of what should be happening.
This was some very useful information about the inner workings of a device that is nearly universally touted as the "one to have" to our newest converts. And like I said, it's nice to know why it fails, but ultimately...
It fails
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Now THAT is Sticky material right there. Great info Scott. Thanks
But moving the 'weakest link' further up the performance curve would end up hurting the 'dumber' vapers that vape blind. You know, women that vape
Alrighty then.
JonnyVapΣ;2276975 said:
Word.
Oh christ... Here we go again. LOL
Edit: Here ya go Zen. TW is having some kind of yo yo sale thing and if you catch it at the right time YOU can snag a nice Ego for a hell of a price! LOL Go ahead... you KNOW you want one.
http://www.totallywicked-eliquid.co...-tornado-e-nic-or-electronic-2-2-product.html
Oh never mind. I just noticed in another thread you already knew about the sale. lol
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Ya know, I just bought a Hello 016 kit from cigparts.com, and one of the atties that came with the kit was a LR 510. I was pretty stoked at the time, but after reading this I'm just shocked. Every other website I look at says not to use LR with the Hello, and they included it in the starter kit!
@amayameda: I totally agree, although I don't have a Hello. LR Atomizers are being sold with eGo-types as well. And, being sold by nearly all suppliers. Yet, I haven't seen a SINGLE one of them provide any warnings on their sites regarding this issue. Borders on shameful, IMO.
Now, what brought me here: It's a little off topic, sorry.
But, people in this thread probably are the best informed to answer my questions.
I'm looking for opinions on a good place to buy some AW 18650s.
I'm looking for good price, and high mAh.
High Drain, as per this thread, not wanted.
Doesn't have to be AW ... but, it is my understanding they are the best.
Is that right? If you have a different opinion, let's hear it.
I'm expecting delivery on a Precise 18650 in the next few weeks and want to feed it well.
Now, what brought me here: It's a little off topic, sorry.
But, people in this thread probably are the best informed to answer my questions.
I'm looking for opinions on a good place to buy some AW 18650s.
I'm looking for good price, and high mAh.
High Drain, as per this thread, not wanted.
Doesn't have to be AW ... but, it is my understanding they are the best.
Is that right? If you have a different opinion, let's hear it.
I'm expecting delivery on a Precise 18650 in the next few weeks and want to feed it well.
I have been using a ego usb from goodprophets for 4 weeks with LR's with any problems thinking about getting another one if this one will go out. All my friends love the vape that it has. I hope it doesn't kill.
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As does Liberty Flight's in their Riva kit. I hate getting an atomizer that I don't dare to use.
You can get them directly from David. He has the 2600 and 2900 mah ones. You can also get them from lighthound.com. I suggest getting them from David, why pay for the shipping twice...
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