About Low Resistance and Specific batteries

[Zen~]

The reason this is here is because Hoogie started it to explain why some people may have experienced bad power supply units.

Ok, so before everybody gets all alarmist and stuff... I want to state some stuff:

1) There is NO battery or power supply unit that is going to last forever.

2) Just because a battery will have a shorter life, OR it may die entirely, does not mean you should flat-out avoid LR Atty/cartos.

It ONLY means they will be possibly more expensive to use.

I REALLY enjoy using LR Cartos on my 510s and eGos, and I will continue to use them... I LOVE the way they perform. Yep, I've popped some 510 batteries... oh well. I haven't popped an eGo yet, but I know it will happen sooner than later.

I don't care.

SMOKING COSTS OVER 10 bucks a day here in NY... vaping saves me so much money I can afford to whomp all over SEVERAL eGo power supplies a WEEK and still be ahead! (plus I'm saving enough to buy a new truck... amazing)


So... everybody... get back to whatever you were doing. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain... nothing to see here.

FEEL FREE TO VAPE LR with ANYTHING you wish... an early demise of a battery is SURELY better than smoking, and if you enjoy using LR, then USE IT! Just don't complain when you have hardware failures... Higher performance almost ALWAYS means lower reliability... ask anybody that owns a race car!

ENJOY vaping LR... and STOP WORRYING!

At the end of the day we're talking about a cheap battery that costs less than two packs of smokes!

Did you complain when you were BURNING MONEY? LOL... probably... but hey, ENJOY LR... It's WAY cheaper than smoking!

</end of public service announcement>

 

[WillyB]

My eGo and Riva... I just have a standard 510 battery, an eGo and 2 Riva batteries. or whatever you want to call them... By reading this thread, I am assuming I should NOT use a LR atomizer with either my eGo, which is a 3.7v 650mah battery nor the Riva, without either shortening the life significantly or killing the battery altogether. Yes? No? Maybe?

There is always a trade-off. The standard Joye 510 atties (2.1-2.2Ω) do in fact stress most batteries, but many like the improved hit/heat.

Yes you are correct, the LR will probably shorted the life of all the batteries you've mentioned. If you are interested in extending your batteries' life span try one of the various imitation 510's out there. The SLB 510 (3.2Ω), will cut the current the batteries have to supply by about 30%. You will be working them in a kinder and gentler manner. They are also quite cheap at about $5.

 

[Luvs5rugrats]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come off all excited over a small thing but I hadn't heard this info before this thread and it kinda bummed me out. My heart sank a bit. I do like the trade-off for better performance vs going through more batteries and I did have the understanding that using a LR atty would shorten the actual vaping time of each battery. I didn't realize that I could be killing them, though. BUT, with that said, I'll stick with using them since I have never been so satisfied until I tried the LR yesterday with my new Riva. A replacement eGo battery at cignot is around $20, so it's not that bad at all and I've seen some for less, even. I really don't mind spending money on this habit as opposed to the alternative, much worse one. I do think this is good information for folks to know, though, which an informational post somewhere would be handy.

So much to learn, so little sanity left in my brain. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Zen~]

I'll stick with using them since I have never been so satisfied until I tried the LR yesterday with my new Riva.

That's the spirit, and with that being said, it's much better to make that decision knowing the possible outcome than to get downright irritated every time something goes wrong. For me, the trade-off has been well worth it. I vape a ton at 5 and 6V with standard cartos, and a lot at 3.7 LR cartos, and the only time I get angry about it is when I make the STUPID mistake of sticking a new 1.8 carto onto the 6V mod and hearing it scream in terror before it nearly bursts into flames... good times...

Performance comes at a price, and for me, it's worth it.

 

[JonnyVapΣ]

...the only time I get angry about it is when I make the STUPID mistake of sticking a new 1.8 carto onto the 6V mod and hearing it scream in terror before it nearly bursts into flames... good times....

I thought you quit smoking?

LOL

 

[Drozd]

My eGo and Riva. I'm not a electronics tech and I don't really want to learn the language. By "bigger", I mean not my standard "little" 510. That's all I know. I don't know volts, ohms, mahs... and I don't have any fancy thing, I just have a standard 510 battery, an eGo and 2 Riva batteries. or whatever you want to call them. The little pamphlet that came with my Riva says, "The Input voltage of the USB battery charger is 5v, 500mah and the output voltage is 4.2x420mah." Then it says on the next page: "The HELLO-Riva is powered by a 3.7v-750mah special power supply."

That's about all it says about that. By reading this thread, I am assuming I should NOT use a LR atomizer with either my eGo, which is a 3.7v 650mah battery nor the Riva, without either shortening the life significantly or killing the battery altogether. Yes? No? Maybe?

now hold on a minute...here's the caveat.... we're talking about a riva which is really just a eGo knock off...
the reason I say that is because it could be important...in that some manufacturers of knock offs...their Low resistance atties are actually the same or in the same range as a standard Joye atty...
for example SLB thier standard atties are 3.2-3.5Ω where the joye are 2.2Ω...
and their LR atties are around 2.0Ω....
and they all have a tolerance of +/- .3 ....

so it really depends on where you got it and the manufacturer and the resistance....

 

[Drozd]

That's the spirit, and with that being said, it's much better to make that decision knowing the possible outcome than to get downright irritated every time something goes wrong. For me, the trade-off has been well worth it. I vape a ton at 5 and 6V with standard cartos, and a lot at 3.7 LR cartos, and the only time I get angry about it is when I make the STUPID mistake of sticking a new 1.8 carto onto the 6V mod and hearing it scream in terror before it nearly bursts into flames... good times...

Performance comes at a price, and for me, it's worth it.

lol...still better than when I put a stainless Drip tip on a carto at 6V... and didn't realize that the wire in the center was a bit longer and touching the tip...electrified DT that shorted to the carto shell...

that'll make you a little miffed

 

[bsoplinger]

Perhaps a better summary would be…

If you choose to use a LR atomizer or cartomizer with the 'big battery' type mods out of China that use a MOSFET like the eGo, Riva, Hello-016 etc. then there is a much improved chance that the MOSFET circuity will just die therefore killing the unit. It will also reduce the number of recharge cycles the battery will endure if the circuitry does hold up. Pretty much expect to have to replace batteries more often.

 

[Zen~]

Pretty much expect to have to replace batteries more often.

That's it in a nutshell... But... For the added performance, it's probably worth it!

 

[Nomoreash]

Perhaps a better summary would be…

If you choose to use a LR atomizer or cartomizer with the 'big battery' type mods out of China that use a MOSFET like the eGo, Riva, Hello-016 etc. then there is a much improved chance that the MOSFET circuity will just die therefore killing the unit. It will also reduce the number of recharge cycles the battery will endure if the circuitry does hold up. Pretty much expect to have to replace batteries more often.

Add also reduced vaping time in between charges. Now the nutshell is complete

 

[mianker]

I will add my thanks to Madvapes for starting this thread and to all the extremely knowledgable folks helping all us electrically challenged people make better choices. (or at least to understand why our choices become more costly than we anticipated)LOLTHANK YOU ALL

 

[blackjackel]

Now I've read this whole thread and have seen what types of Battery/battery cases NOT to use, and which types of batters TO use, and a list of kits NOT to use on LR attys...

what I haven't seen is a list or a link or a point to a forum post of SAFE kits that WILL work with LR atties and not die out... is there such a thing? Is it possible to buy a kit with a battery that WONT crap out with a LR atty?

I hear someone talk about a Riva knockoff with a LR atty that is at the same spec as a regular ego, could you link to that? Are you saying i could use that Atty with a regular riva battery and it won't crap out?

 

[candre23]

If by "kit" you mean standard 510/KR808/ego-like batteries, then the answer is that none of them are really designed for LR attys. Some may or may not work better/longer, but all of them are under-specced for the job. Many people still use them, and some get several months of use out of a battery before it dies. Some only get a few weeks. If you want something that is guaranteed to be LR capable, then you need either an 18650 mod, or a smaller mod that can take an AW IMR cell. AW definitely makes 14500 and 16340 cells, possibly others as well.

Anything less is basically a crap shoot - it might work fine for months, or it might die early.

 

[bsoplinger]

The short answer to what is safe, as in what doesn't risk fried electronics with a LR atty/carto…

And mod that is just battery, switch and connector designed to run at 3.7V.

From China: The Indulgence. About the only mod that is just a battery, switch and connector. Everything else I know of uses the standard MOSFET electronics which is at the heart of this issue.

From USA: Many of the mods being offered by many of the makers. From MadVapes since this is their forum:
MiniVapeStack
MidiVapeStack
Roughstack
Big Roughstack (not sure what this one is actually called)
Either acrylic tube mod kit
The box mod kit

Hopefully others will add any MadVapes products I forgot to mention.

 

[candre23]

I see some people saying "Sure, ego batteries die early with LR attys, but they're still worth it."

I don't think they've done the math.

Even if you are very generous and assume that the average ego-like battery lasts 3 months, they're still much more expensive than a proper mod over even a moderate amount of time. Here's the breakdown:

 

[Zen~]

I see some people saying "Sure, ego batteries die early with LR attys, but they're still worth it."

I don't think they've done the math.

Even if you are very generous and assume that the average ego-like battery lasts 3 months, they're still much more expensive than a proper mod over even a moderate amount of time. Here's the breakdown:

In essence, you're correct.

BUT...

If you already have a couple ego batteries and want better performance, then go for it... when they crap out, buy something that will use a more more suitable battery if that is what motivates you.

Once again, the point of this thread was to make people realize that the China "Mods" are likely going to have shortened life expectancy when used with LR atty/cartos... and that fact has not changed...

The "It's Worth It" comment which I made, was to say that performance has value, and I see no point in milking every last minute out of an inferior power supply by compromising performance. Anybody that has read through this thread should realize that the mosfet china "mods" are no great value in terms of dollars and cents, and will probably consider moving up to a more suitable power supply for use with LR atty/cartos.

So you're absolutely correct with the the general concept of your chart, though your math seems to have an an agenda, as the ego can be has for MUCH less, and the ego power supplies as well, it still does not offer the same monetary value over time.

Additionally, the roughstack full kit includes a charger and 2 18350 batteries for 75 bucks and the batteries are 7 dollars each for replacements.

Here's my version of the chart, and even with reduced eGo pricing, the Roughstack is a clear value winner.

Now with that being said, there factors that don't neatly fit into either chart...

With the eGo and China "mods", each time you replace the power supply, you are replacing the switch as well. So with the China "Mod" you will have 4 new switches per year, and in the above chart, the Roughstack does not get switch replacements... I wonder how a 4 year old Rough Stack Switch will perform? It's cheap to replace it, I suppose, but I don't know how much it costs.

Also with the eGo, you will have a fresh "look" each time you replace the supply. That 3 year old rough stack might be looking tired by then... but with the China "Mod", you're basically replacing it 4 times per year, it will always look new. You can even change colors 4 times a year with the eGo.

The eGo DOES cost more over time, but "worth" is not always measured in dollars and cents... Are you a person that enjoys changing things up a bit? Then the US made Mods may not actually be for you.

It's also important to realize that neither of these options is in any way expensive... over a 4 year period the eGo will cost you 19 cents a day. The roughstack will cost a whopping 8 cents a day.

For some people, it may be worth the extra 11 cents per day to have a smaller, fresher looking power supply.

Everybody has a unique set of motivations!

 

[blackjackel]

can someone link to this roughstack kit?

 

[LowThudd]

RoughStack Kit

 

[Drozd]

another big glaring factor is the wattage people are getting too...

if you figure a mod with either an 18650 or an IMR battery is going to turn out that 3.7V ...rendering 9.13W out of a 1.5Ω atty...

the eGo with it's 3.1-3.2 ish Volts with that same 1.5Ω atty is only going to be around 6.41W...

so on their search for their sweet spot the eGo type batteries with an LR might be good for them where the 9W may be too much...
so while the eGo may be an expensive option you may want to price that against a VV mod...or at least a 5V one... because there ain't much between that 2.2Ω joye 510 (5.95W) and that 1.5Ω LR atty at 3.7V (9.13W) besides either 5V with a 2.8Ω -3.8Ω atty) or the LR atties on an eGo type device

 

[candre23]

At the risk of nit-picking, your chart only accounts for having a single battery on hand. Mine accounts for two, which is definitely a good idea (and probably necessary for many users). In order to keep two batteries on hand, you'd need to buy eight egos per year for a total of $120/year (using your price). You'd only need four IMR cells for a total of $28/year.

Also, as I said, assuming a 3 month lifespan for an ego battery with LR attys is very generous. The average lifespan could easily be half that depending on your luck and which brand you buy.

As you say, everybody has their own motivations. For some, having a smaller, slimmer, consistently newer power supply might be worth the extra money. But I felt it important for those people to see just how much extra they're paying. As we're learning more about reduced lifespans with LR attys, the additional cost for an ego-like keeps going up. That's definitely something to consider if you're in the market for a new mod.