According to Glantz

[nicnik]

E-cig failure is good for Big tobacco's interests.

Says who? Says Stanton Arnold Glantz, Ph.D., American author, leading tobacco control activist, Professor of Medicine in the Division of Cardiology, American Legacy Foundation Distinguished Professor of Tobacco Control, and director of the Center for Tobacco Control Research and Education at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine, elected member of the Institute of Medicine, UC San Francisco Cardiovascular Research Institute and Institute for Health Policy Studies member, co-leader of the University of California, San Francisco Comprehensive Cancer Center Tobacco Program, Bronze Palm recipient as an Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts of America, the "Ralph Nader of the anti-tobacco movement" and engineer. I'll take his word for it.

In a blog post he titled, "More evidence that e-cigs are depressing quitting smoking in the real world", he responds to an abstract of what looks like a trashy study, by claiming the sum of the previous research agrees, then goes on to display incredible insight into the minds of the BT execs: "This is, of course, good news for the multinational cigarette companies, which are increasingly dominating the e-cigarette business."

Of course, I don't agree with his statement about the other research, but the BT comment - I AGREE! I wish he could control his urges to help BT's attempts to wipe out the current vaping industry.

https://tobacco.ucsf.edu/more-evidence-e-cigs-are-depressing-quitting-smoking-real-world

Edited - I'd forgotten to include the quote and break the link.

 

[edyle]

"More evidence that e-cigs are depressing quitting smoking in the real world"
e-cigs are depressing quitting smoking

what the heck does that supposed to mean

 

[nicnik]

"More evidence that e-cigs are depressing quitting smoking in the real world"
e-cigs are depressing quitting smoking

what the heck does that supposed to mean

That using e-cigs decreases the chances of quitting smoking. We know it isn't true, but please try to empathize with the frightened ANTZ.

 

[edyle]

That using e-cigs decreases the chances of quitting smoking. We know it isn't true, but please try to empathize with the frightened ANTZ.

anytime somebody has to carefully devise a complificated headline, to me it's like they're making so much effort trying to ... lie without actually lying.

"More evidence that e-cigs are depressing quitting smoking in the real world"

Seems to me the evidence clearly proofs that tobacco revenues are plummeting
so the strategy to deflect from that simple fact
is to change the topic to "quitting smoking"

 

[nicnik]

anytime somebody has to carefully devise a complificated headline, to me it's like they're making so much effort trying to ... lie without actually lying.


Seems to me the evidence clearly proofs that tobacco revenues are plummeting
so the strategy to deflect from that simple fact
is to change the topic to "quitting smoking"

Correction of my interpretation of "More evidence that e-cigs are depressing quitting smoking in the real world": He's saying that e-cigs are already causing people that would have otherwise quit, to keep smoking, and that the abstract he quoted is further evidence, along with other studies he's misrepresenting.

He's also been claiming that the (imaginary) gateway effect of vaping leading to smoking, is already occuring on a large scale. So, even though many, many people are quitting cigs with vaping, and smoking rates are falling while vaping rates rise, vaping is causing more smoking, both in discouraging quitting, and encouraging starting, according to Glantz.

I believe that the ANTZ that get the most profits from people smoking are not stupid, but this guy keeps seeming like he's out to prove me wrong. Yes, as you say, tobacco revenues are plummeting, but collecting hordes of corrupt money is addicting, and Glantz is fearful of painful withdrawal.

 

[Kent C]

"More evidence that e-cigs are depressing quitting smoking in the real world"
e-cigs are depressing quitting smoking

what the heck does that supposed to mean

What he meant to say is "It's depressing that there is evidence that people using ecigs are quitting smoking in the real world"

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

glANTZ is strictly a quit or die ANTZ and he doesn't consider or admit that those of us who have switched to e-cigarettes have quit smoking, we have just changed brands. If he said anything different the grant gravy train would go away.

 

[DC2]

glANTZ is strictly a quit or die ANTZ and he doesn't consider or admit that those of us who have switched to e-cigarettes have quit smoking, we have just changed brands. If he said anything different the grant gravy train would go away.

This.

If we are using nicotine without the guilt, with no plans to stop...
Then we are who he is talking about...

 

[catlady60]

This.

If we are using nicotine without the guilt, with no plans to stop...
Then we are who he is talking about...

glANTZ can't stand that we're using nic without the guilt. That's how come this fanatic is trying to demonize us by lumping vaping with smoking. He can't--or won't--see the forest for the trees.

 

[DC2]

glANTZ can't stand that we're using nic without the guilt.

I'm not sure if it's because he's a sadistic madman, or if it's because his career depends on it.
Regardless, he will always be known to me as Satan glANTZ.

 

[Kent C]

I'm not sure if it's because he's a sadistic madman, or if it's because his career depends on it.

No reason both can't enter in to the stANTZ.

 

[DrMA]

Here's more "according to glANTZ"

 

[Oliver]

So, I spoke with Prof West last week. In his view, cigalikes are problematic in so far as they do not appear (from the population level data) to be associated with quitting. I'm not 100% precisely sure whether he indicated that they are associated with less quitting, but he was quite clear: where the population level vaping-associated cessation is being observed, it is not cigalikes that are doing the business.

So, how to get this over as the main narrative? Especially when it is true that the c-store segment is (since the sale of Logic) dominated by the tobacco industry...

 

[Oliver]

I mean to say: that cigalikes are not the whole story - that there's an entire world of product that is helping people to stop smoking, and the vast majority of it has nothing to do with the TI.

 

[caramel]

glANTZ is strictly a quit or die ANTZ and he doesn't consider or admit that those of us who have switched to e-cigarettes have quit smoking, we have just changed brands.

According to this logic he's still wearing diapers, he just changed brands.

 

[Endor]

I mean to say: that cigalikes are not the whole story - that there's an entire world of product that is helping people to stop smoking, and the vast majority of it has nothing to do with the TI.

Tying this with your comment about getting this out as the main narrative, I think this is the next challenge. How do we educate law and policy makers about the fact that the vast majority of GOOD products, that actually help people stop, have nothing to do with the tobacco industry?

 

[nicnik]

Tying this with your comment about getting this out as the main narrative, I think this is the next challenge. How do we educate law and policy makers about the fact that the vast majority of GOOD products, that actually help people stop, have nothing to do with the tobacco industry?

By throwing them out of office.

 

[azb8496]

"I'll take his word for it." You show how dangerous that is in your last paragraph. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't understand how dangerous that is.

 

[nicnik]

"I'll take his word for it." You show how dangerous that is in your last paragraph. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't understand how dangerous that is.

It's amazing how much people will just rely on what the "experts" say. But even even they don't trust them, what they say might still worry their non-fans that they might be right.

When I first was considering trying e-cigs, I was scared off by the "antifreeze" propaganda, even though I was already aware of deciptful exaggeration re 2nd hand smoke, the 3rd hand smoke lies, and other excuses for controlling us and raising the cigarette taxes. It was several years after, that I finally made my way to vaping.

I don't easily trust authority, but I can still fall victim to that kind of abuse of trust.

 

[azb8496]

It's amazing how much people will just rely on what the "experts" say. But even even they don't trust them, what they say might still worry their non-fans that they might be right.

When I first was considering trying e-cigs, I was scared off by the "antifreeze" propaganda, even though I was already aware of deciptful exaggeration re 2nd hand smoke, the 3rd hand smoke lies, and other excuses for controlling us and raising the cigarette taxes. It was several years after, that I finally made my way to vaping.

I don't easily trust authority, but I can still fall victim to that kind of abuse of trust.

Bias is a pervasive, real, and exceedingly common phenomenon. It is very useful in social situations. I know that when I'm in a fast-paced chat with my friends, I'll tend to agree with or support someone before I've had a chance to seriously think about what they've said, just because I've trusted them in the past (e.g. they're my good friend that I usually agree with, my father, etc.). People in this country are more and more pressed for time with the prevailing ideology that fast is efficient, and efficient is supreme (not to mention many jobs being crammed into one due to our increasingly dire economic status). I long for the days when people were afforded the ability to go deeper into thought.

Studying the Constitution several years ago, I was and am still impressed by how insightful its authors were and how many contingencies they foresaw. I don't mean to bring this up as a truth of US superiority, but just as evidence that we once were much more than we are today; even with all our technology.