Adding to the tribal knowledge

[Hafaza]

First attempt,

~5 grams Natural American Spirit Organic (Red Pouch) in ~45 ml PG (just covering loose tobacco).
3 days of 12 hours on 12 hours off in a slow cooker at 150 degrees. Slight agitation midway through last heat cycle.
Poured from steeping glassware through metal screen into coffee filter. Ran resulting liquid through a syringe with cotton ball twice (changing to fresh cotton between). Filtering is a PITA.
Ended with about 28 ml of extract. Came down with a cold and sore throat last night so I do not trust my sense of smell or taste ( in fact have not vaped at all today). Will not bother to sample this until I am better again, in a few days with luck.
Color is darker than I thought it would be. Wish I could smell

 

[Hafaza]

Still with cold so in no shape to taste yet, but...

I looked at the extract that I bottled yesterday and it seemed to have a layer on the top. I tilted the bottle to see if I could get a better view. Are there oils extracted in the process? Not soluble in PG I assume if that is the case? Or is this something else, a byproduct of other materials being used, like the filters or cotton?

 

[Str8vision]

It's nothing like the oil extracted by PGA, it's just particulates (plant material), that passed through your cotton filter. Should still taste just fine but may gunk up your wick and coils quickly. From what I've read, coffee filters are rated around 25 - 35 microns and I would estimate cotton balls in a syringe at around 15 - 25 microns optimistically. If you like the flavor but want a cleaner extract there are much better filtering methods/materials available. Many use 5 micron filter felt while others (including myself), use filter paper for even higher levels of filtration.

 

[Hafaza]

Since it has all separated to the top, I guess I can just draw with syringe from under it. Thanks for the confirmation again, I will have to order some filter media. Will update when I can taste/smell.

 

[usr/]

Still with cold so in no shape to taste yet, but...

I looked at the extract that I bottled yesterday and it seemed to have a layer on the top. I tilted the bottle to see if I could get a better view. Are there oils extracted in the process? Not soluble in PG I assume if that is the case? Or is this something else, a byproduct of other materials being used, like the filters or cotton?

View attachment 416216

Hey Hafaza, congrats on your your extract. Just wanted to add a few observations on this. I filter down to 2.5 um on my finished extracts and never see this with them after I bottle, but I am careful not to shake or disturb the extract too much in this early stage due to oxidizing it. Once bottled I just gently roll or tip the bottle a few times just to give the extract some mixing before I put it away for aging. After it has aged and has been mixed is when this thin layer appears in my mixed juice. (ie: after the introduction of pg/vg/nic) and a little more aggressive shaking to mix all the final ingredients. This thin layer almost always appears and I've found that it is super fine air bubbles that have risen from within the mixture because of shaking. In your case it probably needs more filtering this early on. At this point I'm not so concerned with oxidation, because it's not going to last too long anyway! After mixing, this thin layer will appear and then disappear repeatedly for a few days. When it appears I gently shake or roll it out till it's gone then let it sit. It will reappear then I gently shake or roll it out again. It has become my gauge as to when the diffusion is complete and ready to be vaped. It has always completely disappeared after a few days never to return. This has never affected clarity, it will remain crystal clear. At this point a lot of people continue to let their mix set and age longer and yes they do improve the longer they sit. Anyway good luck with your extracts and hope your feeling better.

 

[Hafaza]

That is super excellent information and advice. I will just gently roll it or turn it over a few times and see what happens over the next few days. Thanks! More when I can smell and/or taste...

 

[Hafaza]

Throat and nose finnaly getting better, so thought I would try a sample.



Smelled kind of good, but when held up to the light, it was totally yuck.



Closer inspection from the sides revealed large amounts of particulate.



Viewed from the top it is a cloudy and very suspect looking liquid.



Frankly, it looks disgusting. My filtering was a 100% fail. I have no desire to vape this. Yuck. Question is, can it/should it be salvaged? Obviously what you guys have been saying is 100% correct, finer filtering 5 to 2.5 micron size. Also, do coffee filters and cotton balls introduce more particulates into the fluid? Calling this a failed experiment at this point.

 

[marc42]

give it a filter through a teabag , that should remove larger stuff no problem.
I need to get around to sorting a better filter system myself but thus far the teabag works well.
you have to at least give it a vape!

 

[usr/]

Throat and nose finnaly getting better, so thought I would try a sample.

View attachment 417144

Smelled kind of good, but when held up to the light, it was totally yuck.

View attachment 417147

Closer inspection from the sides revealed large amounts of particulate.

View attachment 417148

Viewed from the top it is a cloudy and very suspect looking liquid.

View attachment 417149

Frankly, it looks disgusting. My filtering was a 100% fail. I have no desire to vape this. Yuck. Question is, can it/should it be salvaged? Obviously what you guys have been saying is 100% correct, finer filtering 5 to 2.5 micron size. Also, do coffee filters and cotton balls introduce more particulates into the fluid? Calling this a failed experiment at this point.

I agree with marc42. Filter it again through a coffee filter and see if it cleans up. Leave off the cotton/syringe step. You shouldn't be seeing that much particulate even after just a primary filter. (ie:coffee filter stage). If it cleans up mix up some at around 15% extract with pg/vg/nic of your choosing and try it.

 

[Hafaza]

I agree with marc42. Filter it again through a coffee filter and see if it cleans up. Leave off the cotton/syringe step. You shouldn't be seeing that much particulate even after just a primary filter. (ie:coffee filter stage). If it cleans up mix up some at around 15% extract with pg/vg/nic of your choosing and try it.

Ok, will try that. Once more through whatever filter I have on hand. Thank you for the advice, will update...

 

[Hafaza]

With the advice above, I warmed the extract just a bit and filtered again though an unbleached coffee filter.



This is just after filtering, but the difference is significant. Encouraged, I mixed a taster.

PG40/60VG 9mg @ 10%

Interesting. Mild, earthy, almost musty, but not in a bad way. It has a heaviness to it that feels more like what I was used to. The taste is quite similar to the smell, which is again similar to the smell of the tobacco in the pouch. Perhaps a little more percentage would help, but I think maybe something else. Tiny bit of Vanilla or perhaps Carmel or maybe a bit of Coffee?

I do notice one thing. When I vape unflavored @ 9mg it never really kills my desire to reach for an analog. The itch is always there, nagging at me. This does that. After a short chain vape, I have almost zero interest in a real cig. Might be crazy, but I even think I got a very cig like buzz off the vape. A head buzz, kind of like a heaviness. Not an all day vape for me, but since I am a recently a cig smoker my vaping habits are very analog like anyway. I tend to reach for the vaporizer when I feel I need the nicotine. This would appear to satisfy that. I would not say it tastes good, but I will say it tastes familiar in a way that seems to satisfy that terrible desire. I am still coming off a cold so taste and smell are still a bit off.

I am going to give this a go through all 5ml. Not sure how gunk on coils will be. I am spoiled vaping unflavored as I only re-wick once every 7-10 days and new coil maybe 2-3 weeks. All and all, encouraging enough to experiment more, perhaps starting with some proper filter paper or similar.

Thanks everyone for the advice and encouragement....

 

[usr/]

With the advice above, I warmed the extract just a bit and filtered again though an unbleached coffee filter.

View attachment 417492

This is just after filtering, but the difference is significant. Encouraged, I mixed a taster.

PG40/60VG 9mg @ 10%

Interesting. Mild, earthy, almost musty, but not in a bad way. It has a heaviness to it that feels more like what I was used to. The taste is quite similar to the smell, which is again similar to the smell of the tobacco in the pouch. Perhaps a little more percentage would help, but I think maybe something else. Tiny bit of Vanilla or perhaps Carmel or maybe a bit of Coffee?

I do notice one thing. When I vape unflavored @ 9mg it never really kills my desire to reach for an analog. The itch is always there, nagging at me. This does that. After a short chain vape, I have almost zero interest in a real cig. Might be crazy, but I even think I got a very cig like buzz off the vape. A head buzz, kind of like a heaviness. Not an all day vape for me, but since I am a recently a cig smoker my vaping habits are very analog like anyway. I tend to reach for the vaporizer when I feel I need the nicotine. This would appear to satisfy that. I would not say it tastes good, but I will say it tastes familiar in a way that seems to satisfy that terrible desire. I am still coming off a cold so taste and smell are still a bit off.

I am going to give this a go through all 5ml. Not sure how gunk on coils will be. I am spoiled vaping unflavored as I only re-wick once every 7-10 days and new coil maybe 2-3 weeks. All and all, encouraging enough to experiment more, perhaps starting with some proper filter paper or similar.

Thanks everyone for the advice and encouragement....

Hafaza, coffee filter will give you a pretty clean extract that is definitely vapable, but micro filtering will give you a super clean liquid that's somewhat easier on coils. But NETs are still coil wreckers. I should say wick wreckers. My coils last for months, all you have to do is dry burn them lightly brush them off dry burn again and ready to go. NETs and a good dripper do well together. Low maintenance good flavor. Sometime I just rebuild coils just to do something beside re-wicking. At 40/60 pg/vg 9mg you may want to up your % to 15 or 20% extract to get a little more flavor. ymmv. I was a 42 year 1 1/2 pad smoker. I managed to quit smoking with the vape, but couldn't scratch that itch for smoke, until I found the NETs. Synthetics and nic. just weren't cutting it. Since then I have no desire for a cigarette. Coming up on 2 years very soon. I know they say there's no WTA, but there is something more in there than just flavor. The only time I even remotely tempted to smoke is when I break open a fresh tin of some good tobacco that I'm fixing to extract, and I get a good smell of it, all I can think of is how good it would be to load up one of my dad's briars and have a smoke. But I can't/won't do that, so I just have a good vape, and it's good. Anyways, good luck with your ventures.

 

[Johntodd]

Interesting. Subbed.

 

[Hafaza]

Going to sum up and put this thread to bed.

Almost a month after the extraction, the liquid shows more particles in suspension. Warmed it up and filtered through yet another coffee filter. The advice here for finer filtration is sound. Mixed at 10% originally it was not really bad on the coil/wick, though replacement wicking was required after about 4-5 ml.

The extract now has mellowed/softened from the day it was capped. I find now that I need to go to about 13-15% flavoring. The flavor though is I think more complex and the musty kind of taste is gone. Even sniffing the extraction it does not seem strong or overpowering. Clearly, as others here have said and given guidance, even a short amount of aging improves the extraction. No idea why this is so, but there it is.

So, what have a learned from the first try?
1) NET extraction is easy and it tastes good.
2) Coffee filters are fine for the initial filter, but subsequent filtration needs to go down to 5 microns or so. Will buy those materials now.
3) Allowing the extract to age does help and improve it.

Going to cook up a better batch when all the supplies get here. Thank you all for your help. Surprisingly easy....

 

[usr/]

Good luck to ya! Keep us updated on what your brewing and how they turn out.

 

[Hafaza]

Swapped this into a REOS that had been used for a Cappuccino/Vanilla vape. Trace amounts left in feed tube and cap. OMG, it is nirvana! And, I will never replicate it, lol. /face palm

 

[usr/]

Swapped this into a REOS that had been used for a Cappuccino/Vanilla vape. Trace amounts left in feed tube and cap. OMG, it is nirvana! And, I will never replicate it, lol. /face palm

Yeah, hate when that happens. You should be able to get it pretty close though. Just put that in your notes: "Trace amounts left in feed tube and cap" lol.

 

[Ian444]

I do notice one thing. When I vape unflavored @ 9mg it never really kills my desire to reach for an analog. The itch is always there, nagging at me. This does that. After a short chain vape, I have almost zero interest in a real cig. Might be crazy, but I even think I got a very cig like buzz off the vape. A head buzz, kind of like a heaviness. Not an all day vape for me, but since I am a recently a cig smoker my vaping habits are very analog like anyway. I tend to reach for the vaporizer when I feel I need the nicotine. This would appear to satisfy that.

I managed to quit smoking with the vape, but couldn't scratch that itch for smoke, until I found the NETs. Synthetics and nic. just weren't cutting it. Since then I have no desire for a cigarette. Coming up on 2 years very soon. I know they say there's no WTA, but there is something more in there than just flavor.

I agree with the above, I don't vape a lot of NET, but when I do it certainly brings on a relaxation that synthetics or unflavored can't, and tastes great too.

Edit - Hafaza, try to replicate that flavor, it may be easier than you think. Maybe 5% to start with.

 

[cinetrope]

I've spent a few days reading posts in http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/liquid-extraction-tobacco/ and was curious about an aspect of the filtering stage of the process. Has anybody successfully used a ceramic micro-filter? (the kind used to purify water when back packing or camping) Would it remove too much of what gives an NET it's flavor? Are the pores too large/small? (I have one made by Sweetwater, three stage, 0.2 micron) I thought I'd post my question on this thread incase it was part of the tribal knowledge base. Thanks in advance for reading or responding to this post. I use commercially prepared NET ejuice as part of my daily rotation and would like to try DIY at some point.

 

[Str8vision]

I've not used a rigid ceramic filter but suspect @ 0.2 micron retention it might load and clog - very - quickly. The porous metal filters I've used to filter fuel/solvents (>10 micron), aren't cleanable (can't be adequately back flushed to dislodge/remove the trapped particles), and so are considered disposable once they load to the point of restricting flow.

You will need to apply either vacuum or positive pressure to filter PG and or VG at 0.2 microns and I suspect there would be some flavor loss. How much I don't know, 1 micron is as low as I've ventured although I did recently order 0.7 micron borosilicate glass filters to experiment with. There was a perceivable flavor loss at 1 micron (as compared to 2 micron), but I've been working on methods that help mitigate that loss.

Most vendor made NET is filtered at or above 2.5 microns with the exception of MVJ's line of NET which I - suspect - is filtered around 1.5 microns based on flavor/performance.