All my used carto's are TOAST !!

[bornagainst]

People get heated. I totally understand.

However if there's a valid issue that needs to be addressed, I am sure it will be. On a personal note though, we gotta do what's best for ourselves, and hopefully help others out on the way.

Last thing I want to do is .... heads with people when I firmly believe we all share a common bond.

 

[skydragon]

People get heated. I totally understand.

However if there's a valid issue that needs to be addressed, I am sure it will be. On a personal note though, we gotta do what's best for ourselves, and hopefully help others out on the way.

Last thing I want to do is .... heads with people when I firmly believe we all share a common bond.

I agree with you there born. I don't even know why this should be a butting heads discussion. Or why it should get heated. (although I admit and in case you hadn't noticed, yanks' response kind of ticked me off )

There is no way I want to stop using cartos so I certainly don't have any agenda in that respect. I just wasn't real happy about what I found and if a safer alternative can be used, it should be. Otherwise, they are as bad as PM.

And yes, analogs have a high probability of killing you in the long run but there are many fumes/vapors that can kill you much quicker when inhaled. Like I said, it kind of reminds me of inhaling mattress material. I don't know if it is, but that is what it reminds me of.

 

[aubergine]

I know it hurts to dissemble a carto, but am I really the only one who has unscorched carts? I don't even wait for a full cooldown. It's very steady vaping. What IS this deal??

I'm sure no agent or anything. I'm pretty sure that the very little discoloration I'm seeing is staining, when I see anything at all, and I just ripped up 2 more - except on the one that I truly vaped straight into pure unvapability. And that was HOURS. Bewildered.

 

[bornagainst]

aubergine, its simply because you are fabulous, and scorched cartos just don't happen to those who are fabulous.

 

[yanks21]

Sorry you were urging EVERYONE to contact their suppliers and tell them you will no longer buy carts from them and I assumed I was someone, my bad.

 

[skydragon]

OK, I've been using V4L cartos for about a month and a half. I love the product but I don't much like the idea of inhaling burnt polyfill either.
I chain vape (i mean chain vape), I us manuals and autos during work, and a passthrough on weekends and in the evening. I store used topped cartos separate from those I just finish off and have no time/inclination to top, because I tend to mix flavors with the topped ones.

I often vape a carto for HOURS w/o topping, many many hard hits. Not recommending this, but I do - I'm busy.
I recognize when it's done - it's not a toasted taste, it's an off-taste. Not a burnt marshmallow - a just done marshmallow.

So reading this thread this evening I went into 6 never-topped cartos. I included one that I knew I'd kept at too long, as I'd been away from my stash. Pulled everything out and unrolled it in good light.

After looking at those pics I expected to see a lot of discoloration, and would have reported it - I really do use a cart hard and long. But all but the one I'd overdone were simply white. Tiny bit of very light, almost invisible beige on one, at the very inside. (I unrolled the paper tubing as well as the batting - the very faint discoloration was just on the paper.) No way that it was dark enough to indicate that those were "burnt", and I dunno if it was a very light scorch or flavor-stain. On the one that I really overdid, there was a small scorch mark on the paper, medium brown, and a bit of the batting was very faintly discolored. And I KNEW I was killing that one, I really tasted it. I expected something like those pictures.
Nothing remotely like.
So I dunno what's going on. My adult kids note that I vape constantly, and are interested in how long a cart lasts. I smoked for many, many years, and I treat one untopped carto as equivalent to 3/4 to 1 pack of cigarettes. That's a lot of hits.

No one has any need to believe me, but I'm not a shill for V4L, or a groupie in denial. That's just what I see, straight up.

I also have a stash still unwashed from week one of vaping. Undid some of those and none resembled the mess in picture, but some were definitely scorched. I remember the learning curve, and also "getting it." No experienced vaper who's trying something new wants to feel like they're being dissed or treated like a noob, but something is off here.

I also opened up a few blanks that I'd loaded w/ Tasty Vapor and Ms T juice. Hard to tell as the juice itself in those was dark, but I saw what might have been a little more discoloration - could be light scorching, or just stain from the flavoring.

Something's not right here, I don't know how folks are scorching these so badly.

I'm sorry that anyone felt put down in the forum; complaints and concerns in there are consistently responded to with interest, courtesy and disarming honesty, and I'm in there very frequently and read most all new posts every day.

Hi aubergine,

This is what confuses me. I don't get what the differences are.

The first one I pulled out I also attributed to discoloration from the juice but there was no doubt at all about the other three.

I really don't understand why some but not all. I guess that is what we are trying to figure out.

 

[skydragon]

Sorry you were urging EVERYONE to contact their suppliers and tell them you will no longer buy carts from them and I assumed I was someone, my bad.

As stated I meant EVERYONE who is concerned. I guess I wasn't specific enough.

So, EVERYONE who is concerned with this issue should contact the vendors since I'm guessing most of us don't know how to make our own and they are who we must rely upon.

For those of you who are not concerned, don't do anything.

 

[SikVapor]

Well, the thread got closed in that supplier subforum. I was really surprised that the owner responded, acknowledged the issue, and said they were working on it. They do have a representative in Leaford over there, so we know they have the means to do it. I am disappointed, however, that the thread was locked and closed. Seems akin to "sweeping it under the rug for the time being" type of response, but the negative tone probably had something to do with it to.

I have to chuckle at your attempt to have a civil and productive thread about this issue in that subforum LOL. I mean, you have been there before right? What did you think was going to happen? Saying that they have a fan following would be the understatement of the year. I just knew the thread would degrade to back and forth derision. There was one cheerleader over there that was swinging on the nutsack hard and it took quite a bit of self restraint to jump in. I just did not want to get involved in such a hostile conversation.

I do like V4L as a company, though. I've had problems with incorrect orders and faulty equipment, and they have remedied the problems in a timely fashion. I appreciate them having a rep in China working with manufacturers, all their flavor choices, excellent warranty (QC on equipment could be better though) and constant specials/sales. I am far from being a fanboy though, once somebody comes up with a safe(r) cartomizer design I will buy from them. I wouldn't be surprised if the company to introduce that breakthrough was V4L, with all their connections and R&D work. V4L has indicated they will introduce their "ultimate" carto design to succeed the premiums, maybe this issue will be resolved in that version. In fact, it would probably be in their best interest to be the first supplier to introduce such a design to capture a sort of first-mover advantage effect. As a consumer, I don't care who does it first, I just hope it happens soon.

I received my latest shipment from them today, an XL battery and premium cartos. So far I am LOVING the performance of the premiums. The flavor is wonderful and the vapor production is phenomenal. In the interest of this thread, I definitely share the same concerns. I will vape the premium carto on an XL battery at 3.7V. I will not refill, I will not use a passthrough to increase voltage and will not use the 901-to-808 adaptor to increase airflow. I will dissect the cart and post pics once the carto has finished.

 

[whozshort]

Good post SikVapor.

I think the other thing we need to think about is these things (specifically "e-cigarettes" and not mods) were manufactured to be treated like cigarettes. Take 10-15, three to five second puffs, and then put it down for at least 20 mins to half an hour. I am assuming this would allow time for the poly to resaturate so to speak and prevent burning.

What ended up happening is too many people needed to use their PV's more than analog cigs to be satisfied, thus using them in a way it wasn't designed for. Manufacturers didn't foresee this, and hell we needed our fix!! I would be very curious for those who are having burnt cart issues and for those that insist they do not, exactly what their vaping style is. Not necessarily "light/medium/heavy", but do you treat it like a smoke and how much did you smoke previously. What kind of breaks did you take between puffs? I think anyone who smoked a pack a day+ should be using multiple carts and batteries for each vaping session to minimize overusing/overheating the PV - if you smoked 40 cigs a day it's reasonable to think you will need 3-4 full ecigs to get you through the day, alternating throughout.

Having said that, I totally agree manufacturers need to look into this and fix this issue. I am just trying to think of any sort of constants between cases of burning to figure out how we can prevent it in the meantime.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[miss MiA]

a Parlament cart that had just lost it's flavor as I was reading these 13 pages. No burn taste whatsoever! Was even still producing decent vapor. Top off, it looks good (Please excuse my winter dry hands.

That view is what -- and all, except to the extent that I do center, poke and fluff occasionally -- that I was referring to myself when this thread first began awhile ago, and I said I haven't been seeing burn in mine (nor heard discussion of it at that point beyond effect on taste, despite being around tons of refill talk, more than I ever ever everrrr wanted to lol!). Which was before pics and more info were posted here, that I wasn't aware of previously. I'll also be sure to start pulling some of mine apart now for good measure. But nope, just sayin (not to you Michelle ), twas no intent to sweep whatever there might be under any rugs here either.

@Unit40, you were wondering if certain juices could be contributing factors, so in case you didn't see it I wanted to point out that many pages back, the first time around or so, someone else did say their cartos had the same extreme appearance as yours when using the same juice you were referring to. I'd hoped it would end up being discussed too.

@Scottbee: Haven't met ya (hi!) but wanted to say I appreciated your input on the other thread. And you interact so well, managing to be frank and realistic yet always noninflammatory, even given a loaded situation. Attractive consulting offers should speed your way! (Hey um, have you ever extracted the filler and 'naked dripped' with cartos? Still very interested in the truly massive savings benefit that could represent over other atty styles for that, IF they do hold up reasonably well to it, and don't tend to get ruined in the extraction process, etc. Which isn't to say that I'm to where I'm not gonna use them as-is either; I gots me A LOT of them devils already!! Just looking at all possibilities, including for the matter of deciding whether to refill... much. )

@Katmar: I don't see this much around here but... (((Katmar)))

 

[bobbysox10]

V4L cheerleaders, fanboys its all crap. V4L is a family. They take care for there customers and the customers take care of them. That is what you get when you choose a decent company. Ok so they have problems, who doesn't?? They have the biggest customer base for a reason. Now the burning issue. Leaford is known to most as the Yoda of E-Cigs and he uses the Vapor King and has always been known to prefer cartomizers(The e9 was his top fave and the vaporking was 3.) and he continues to use them so obviously there has to be something that causes the burning that not everyone does. I mean would someone who knows almost if not all about e-cigs continue to use something that is causing the cartomizer to burn??? I think not. So I will say this, yes the cartomizers are burning and they shouldnt, yes the issue should be addresed, no its not happening for everyone, no this won't stop me from choosing the best e-cig in the world(in my opinion). Am i crazy??? no. I would rather inhale burnt polyfiber on occasion than an unknown "primer fluid" from a 510 or 901 atty or old juice buildup that sits in the 510 and 901 atty or 4000+ chemicals from analogs. The fact is no e-cig is perfect. They all may have some flaws. They won't be perfect untill the FDA mans up, regulates it and contributes into finding a way that we can all buy any model e-cig we want and know that they will all work correctly. If there really is a safe material for the cartomizers that won't burn than that sort of thing would be required if the FDA grew some o well you know. So continue to discuss but seriously stop the battle. Cartomizer haters stay off of V4L or any other cartomizers sub-forum and stop the hate speachs. Cartomizer lovers stop responding to the hate speaches. Simple as that. This forum site is here to help us not cause arguements that have us battling to the death and acting like kids.

 

[bobbysox10]

double post soory

 

[Adrenalynn]

It would be easier for me if you would please just look those terms up in a dictionary.

Crud! Thanks! I'd have never thought of that!

It would be easier for me if we could agree that we'd try using even the simplest of English as the common language.

The suffix "...er" would suggest "more"

"safer" being synonymous with "more safe".

If something is 100% "safe", then how do we make it "safeER"? As far as I know, there could never be a 101% safe state, right? Something that is completely safe and then more? This really isn't a difficult concept, is it?

The ONLY way we can define "safER" is in context of "unsafe". So now we need to define specifically what IS "unsafe" in this instance so that we will know what needs to be made safER.

So specifically what is UNsafe here? By what mechanism is it UNsafe? To what degree is it UNsafe? How are we measuring the SAFEty? ["un-safe-ness"]

With no baseline by which to measure it, we can not possibly have a goal nor understand when we've reached it. There's no "there" there.

Hence my request to define "safer" in terms of "unsafe[ty]". All I see is unqualified ramblings and W.A.G... If we know by what mechanism and measure something is unsafe, then we know specifically what needs improvement. Then it's just simple problem solving. Running around flailing hands like an idiot isn't helpful - it amounts to nothing but some exercise, being out of breath, some tired arms, and just generally looking like an idiot. If that's the actual goal we could save time and frustration by expressly stating that goal, but from where I sit it appears self-evident anyway...


I hope this has helped to clarify for you why I'm asking for "safer" expressed in terms of "unsafe". I'm not sure I could explain it any more simply...

 

[AlexTM]

So, V$L is a family? Well, so were the Corleones. Excuse me if I am unimpressed, but V4L and every other seller are businesses, and they want my money. I want a decent product in return. That's (hopefully) not what familiy is about.
I am perfectly willing to recommend sellers, too. But I can't quite understand why any business sees it as a necessity to make it's "family members" go rabidly after everybody not entirely satisfied with a product they sell, and why V$L in particular feels it's necessary to make ridiculous statemens about other products they don't sell, and do nothing about an obvious problem that was reported months ago.

Because, obviously, this problem exists, and it's not rare. Obviously, it happens to people who are not too dumb to vape. Obviously, everybody but the very most dumb need to be protected from this or similar problem, particularly newbies! Because even if they are user error (which I doubt) it's a very common one. And obviously, this issue threatens all vapers, via the FDA.
So, obviously, reacting with attacks and derailing of discussions on those reporting the problem is a lousy way of handling the matter.


Regarding how common the matter is: Even if we assume that everybody here speaks the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, then we have, very approximately, for every one report of burned filling about 2-3 three people telling that it never, ever, happened to them. Which would make this a problem that possibly affects 20-30% of all users. (Very rough estimate, of course.) I dunno, still sounds like more than enough to me to worry.


Oh, and I opened one of my cartos tonight, one of the whole 4 or 5 I vaped. First one opened, barely vaped (and believe me, I was over-careful), never refilled: Small hole. (Hole is definitely a hole, filling slightly meltet.)

 

[Brew]

V4L is probably one of the best companies I have done business with in a long time. That said the issues have been documented for over a year. It took me 3 min to get the MSDS and find the list of toxic chemicals from burnt polyfill. That is a year before I came along and was exposed to smoking burning petrochemical toxics and aerosols.

There are no excuses for risking any portion of your customer base, to those chemicals and still promote the items as safe. Now your gonna get some crap assembly work and other glitches every so often, but the base product it unsafe due to its design and construction materials.

Anyone who argues against any of the above is either in their own fantasy land, or freely accepted domination and indoctrination of the most devious kind.

The problem can be easily cured by spending more money in manufacture and selling for less profit. This involves laying people off and restructuring. That is the reality of today's world, if you want to stay in business.

And no, they won't sell product liability insurance on a new invention like e-cigs till the manufacturer pays for safety studies.

 

[AlexTM]

The problem can be easily cured by spending more money in manufacture and selling for less profit. This involves laying people off and restructuring. That is the reality of today's world, if you want to stay in business.

Actually, given the price of cartos, I don't even think that you'd necessarily make less profit. I know people here are willing to pay more for Greencig (which in turn is not well available, and flavoured only, hence no business there, either), and I should guess that a lot of people would be paying a bit more for a safer KR8, too.

Of course, how much more can burn-safe filling material cost? We are hardly talking dollars here, are we, per carto?

 

[Katmar]

Interestingly enough, I have gone through some, not all, of the threads regarding kr8 cartos burning. There were over 50 people who posted, of which, maybe 8 or 10 could be considered noobs.

Many, many pictures were posted. This has been an issue for at least 1 year, and that is probably since it was only noticed by someone then. In that time, NOTHING has been done to make the kr8 safer. We have more flavors, bigger batteries, etc., but the cart design remains the same.

Until that issue is resolved, I will NOT recommend the kr8 to noobs. I think it is unfair and, possibly, reckless on my part to do so.

Even though one of the suppliers said it WAS an issue, he closed his thread because he said it has been hashed to death. I disagree with that assessment. Until this issue is RESOLVED, there is still a danger of inhaling toxic poly whatever without knowledge. You may call it user error, or dumb noobiness, it doesn't matter. I now know it is NOT always user error.

I have been accused of having an agenda. Of targeting someone or something. I have absolutely NOTHING to gain from this. I have been happily vaping away, unaware of any danger. There have been a few physical problems that the doctor is having trouble finding the source. I came upon the thread regarding burnt cartomizers and starting taking a bunch of mine apart. Some old, some new, some used a little, some refilled a lot. I found burnt filler material in the majority of them. This has given me great concern and I believe it needs to be resolved.

I don't see anyone stepping up to the plate to insure they are doing ALL they can to make the kr808 cartomizer safer, after over a year of complaints. One supplier said he was working on it, but at the same time, said it was hashed to death.

 

[AlexTM]

Making this an "us vs. them" and claiming that "them" have an agenda (whatever that is supposed to be) makes it a lot easier to explain why there wasn't much done. After all, just a few noobs and people with an agenda, versus that little happy family!

Not particular intelligent for a business, especially since that business after all just resells the stuff, and the basic complaints therefore were not even directed at them. I wonder how many people are turned away from cartos, burned filling or not, by the behaviour of the "happy little family" of exactly one vendor.

Ah well, doesn't matter - it's still the cartos as such which are the problem, and not the "happy little family". I want safe 2-parters to give to Newbies that I know won't want to bother with 3-parters. Is that asking too much?

 

[Katmar]

Making this an "us vs. them" and claiming that "them" have an agenda (whatever that is supposed to be) makes it a lot easier to explain why there wasn't much done. After all, just a few noobs and people with an agenda, versus that little happy family!

Not particular intelligent for a business, especially since that business after all just resells the stuff, and the basic complaints therefore were not even directed at them. I wonder how many people are turned away from cartos, burned filling or not, by the behaviour of the "happy little family" of exactly one vendor.

Ah well, doesn't matter - it's still the cartos as such which are the problem, and not the "happy little family". I want safe 2-parters to give to Newbies that I know won't want to bother with 3-parters. Is that asking too much?

I saw in several threads where people were saying they had a perfumy taste from the happy family seller and they got attacked and left the sub forum. If you are not part of the inner circle,. you are on your own. Don't bother with a complaint, you will be attacked and accused of being a troublemaker.

I hope someone DOES come up with a safer 2 piece. I don't think it would be all that hard. I saw many good suggestions in reading through these threads.

 

[unit40]

Why is it possible to turn this topic into a linguistic battle. Prefix, suffix, unsafe means not-safe, dangerous, vulnerable, harmful, involving or causing danger or risk, liable to hurt or harm. Why do I even respond to this? Because someone feels as though creating the image of a rambling lunatic flailing their arms like an idiot is going to distract from the topic and make it a non-issue. Unfortunately, the ball is rolling and gaining momentum. Think snowball if you would like. What I see being asked here is for the Feds to examine this issue. After all ,they have the labs, the scientists, the linguists, the attorneys, the PhD's also. Why do the members here who are conscerned with what appears to be a hazardous (look it up, don't ask me for a definition, but you can study and dissect the meaning at will) and potentially harmful product, (you may discuss the word harmful at your leisure as well) have to be questioned on their fears and findings as if they are witnesses for the defense ? It is a tactic I learned long ago in Psych 101.