All VG liquid DIY...carry over from Vinegar thread

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Cyrus Vap

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This is a 100% VG DIY conversation carried over from the vinegar pseudo hijack...

As to PG, no matter how pure, it has a taste. You can get used to it, it's not outright rank. But everybody I know after switching to all VG for a few days, wouldn't dream of going back. A few drops of water/alcohol thins VG perfectly, the taste and the vapor are wonderful.

Fernand I'm interested in this. Two questions.

1) I've heard nic base isn't so stable/enduring in 100% VG. Thoughts on this?

2) what proportion of DW/PGA do you use to total VG?

thanks!

Fernand, I like the idea of vaping clean VG....how much alcohol or water do you use in your mixes, ans isent pure VG carto and atty killers???

Thanks

I use all vg nic and have not had any issues. There is speculation that nic can become seperated invg but it is just that, speculation. Most believe that if mixed properly it will stay suspended. If you are not sure give it a shake before using.

Thinning will depend on your equipment but I wouldn't use any more than 20% DW in pure VG or no more than 5% PGA. Some VG is already hydrated so be careful and start with a lower %. I find that flavoring alone will thin it enough for my equipment.

I'm jumping on the bandwagon (maybe you should start a new thread so we don't hijack the vinegar thread?). I would love to vape pure vg juice but the 'high concentration pockets of nic' in nic base thing scares me. I did get brave and order my last bottle 50/50 whereas before I always got my nic in 100% pg and used pure vg when mixing from there.

What's been your experience with this? Problems with pure vg nic base I mean...

BnB, I have checked into the "hot spot" theory quite a bit. Seems that it is possible if the initial mixing was not complete. If the initial mixing was proper any settling or separating is highly unlikely. I have done numerous titration tests on the vg nic I get from MFS and have not found any evidence of hot spots, not even a warm spot :) .
 

wizard10000

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Except for PG-based flavoring I've mixed VG-only for about six months so my jooses generally end up being about 90% VG. My body doesn't care much for PG, which dries me out and aggravates my COPD.

I personally wouldn't go back to mixing PG even if my body did tolerate it better - I do find I need to use more flavoring than if I was working with PG, but I can fog up a room in nothing flat :)

I'm vaping 24mg these days and have been catching goodprophets' 36mg VG when it's been on sale and buying 480ml at a time, which usually costs me about $25 shipped and lasts for months. Milligram for milligram it's the least expensive stuff out there (if you catch it on sale, which happens fairly often) and for me the 36mg VG has been fine to work with as I find it's thin enough that by the time I add flavoring I never have to thin the 0mg VG I use to bring the joose down to 24mg.

The only down side I've seen is that when I do my DIY coffee I use 25% coffee extract plus some other stuff so I wasn't able to make 24mg joose with 36mg VG - until I got an idea and started extracting coffee directly into the 36mg nic. About half the nic I use gets lost in the extraction process but the stuff's so cheap it doesn't bother me.

I find the slightly reduced TH doesn't bother me, the need to use a little more flavoring isn't really an issue and as far as VG being a carto-killer I haven't found that to be true.

I'd suggest everybody try working in straight VG at least once - you might find you need to add a little more flavoring but I don't have to drink a gallon of water a day to stay hydrated - and I think working in VG gives me a smoother vape and the vapor production is usually off the charts :D
 
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Fernand

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I saw on the vinegar thread, someone said they felt PG mixes make them tired. anyone else have that experience?

One of the "toxicities", or "effects" (depending on perspective) of PG is that it's an alcohol-type sedative-hypnotic. In other words at high doses it can intoxicate and induce sleep. It clearly does not have the same time-scale or potency as ethanol, though I've never tried drinking more than the drip-tip delivered ;-) But at the vape level, I thought for kicking cigarettes it was great. Kept the nerves down. But later, I found I was sleeping a lot, and kind of sluggish. It's funny that it wasn't very obvious subjectively, it's a more subtle effect than a benzodiazepine, for instance, but my wife was commenting on how I'd slowed down, and when I switched to all VG it was a significant and welcome difference to have my more customary energy level back.

The other two main side-effect of PG I observed were:

Extreme drying of the mouth, eyes, nose, in other words all mucous membranes, including the intestines. had to drink a lot of water, and still it persisted.

The other was an acid stomach. I used to take antacids and a famotidine tablet in the morning every day. A number of friends who tried vaping reported that, and one in France who had had an ulcer became quite unhappy with it.

None of these were like "in yer face" and crippling for me, but I'm happier to have only a slight nasal stuffiness remaining when I switched to all VG.
 
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Fernand

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Sorry this is (mostly) a repeat, but I wanted to post this here for newcomers, as it summarizes a lot of experiences.

I have been vaping all VG for about a year, since I realized PG was causing me some problems, sleepiness/low energy being the most annoying. Then I realized that I didn't need to put up with it, nor the taste that I never cared for. It was a revelation.

Anyway, no, there is no problem with nicotine stability in VG. I have several bottles of 100 mg/ml nicotine in VG that are over a year old, that were kept at room temp in the original bottles, and it's as good as new. No, there aren't some mysterious pockets unless the solution isn't well stirred in the first place, same as a PG solution.

I use all VG, except for the small quantities of PG that comes with flavoring, but it's not a matter of being religious about anything, I could live with 10 or maybe even 20% PG, before it gets very noticeable, but why should I?

DIY example: I start out with an empty 10 ml bottle, put it on the scale, zero it out, then add the nicotine in VG, which weighs about 1.2 g per ml, so for typical (for me) 10 mg/ml strength, I pour in 1.2 grams of 100mg/ml nicotine (1 ml). Then fill the bottle half way with VG (I usually use Humco that they sell at CVS etc), and add the flavoring recipe, 2% of this, 1% of that, the total doesn't ever exceed 20 drops, which works out to about 5-6%. People who use 25% flavoring aren't vaping VG/PG any longer, and I think they're very very brave. Then I add 5 drops (0.25 ml) of water, and 5 drops (0.20 ml) of PGA or 151 proof liquor. Then finish pouring in the VG to the 10 ml line. Shake under hot water tap, that gets the steeping going. Let it sit overnight in a warm spot, and by morning it's good to go. It wicks plenty well enough for me, you can always add a little more water if you want thinner juice, that doesn't hurt a thing either.

No, it's not an atty killer, I don't see an obvious difference from whenI vaped Dekang. There's no sugar or coloring in my DIY, if I want very sweet I add a drop or two of sucralose in PG. If I want more "dry", I use a drop or two of FA Bitter Wizard. I use small amounts of FA or PA flavoring. It tastes great, the vapor is great, the amounts of (possibly hazardous - we can't be sure) flavoring is at a minmum, no diacetyl, acetoin or acetylpropionyl. I feel great, no longer tired, no acid stomach, no dry mucous membranes. I'm very cautious about what I add to it, and I'm a very happy vaper, except that sometimes I can't find the door for all the vapor

Yes, Wizard, I've noticed that too, it takes a little more flavoring, but you know, this isn't a candy bar. I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but I'd rather live. And flavoring is the big unknown. My rule is "not more than 20 drops total" per 10 ml juice of typical strength flavorings in PG, like FlavourArt's (FA).

Burning juice is a nightmare with some atties, and it's hazardous. Some flavorings can break down to nasty stuff, PG is rather heat-stable, but VG starts to break down over 180 deg celcius. Normally an atty doesn't even get close to that temp, but if it's burning juice with loose glowing wires etc, you will know right away, the more VG in the juice, the easier to tell, because acrolein is formed, and you can detect truly minute amounts as a nasty burned grease taste before there's serious danger. There have been measurements taken, and no acrolein was ever detected under normal vaping conditions from VG. But I know it when I taste it, you will too, and you just have to avoid defective atomizers.
 
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Bostonsnboxers

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Well, the community is either people who have made the switch, and know they like it, or ones that don't believe it. Not much to talk about past that, I guess.

I was personally convinced to at least give it a go with your post in the 'other' thread ;)
I recently placed an order for, and just received my nic in a 50/50 blend (100mg) and if I blend that without pg (except for the minute amount in flavoring) it's a step in the right direction. Previously I've purchased nic in 100% pg and added vg to that.

I still have quite a bit of the 100% pg left though, so it'll be awhile before I dip into the new nic (I'll report back if I'm still hanging out here) and if I find it agrees with me, I may very well try 100% vg next!

I've only ever read 'bad' things about vg nic base (pockets not mixing properly, etc) except for a few poking in now and again that can't tolerate pg, so a big thank you to all that have shared their experiences otherwise! Alternatives are a good thing :)
 

AzPlumber

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I am using 80% vg but may try cutting vg with a little water, what % water would you suggest? Does it stay blended with the vg ok?

Hey Canoe, is that 80% before flavors or 80% including flavors? I use a 20/80 pre-mix and after adding flavors I don't feel a need to thin it further. If you want to experiment with dw I would start with 5% and probably not go over 10%.
 

canoeist

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Hey Canoe, is that 80% before flavors or 80% including flavors? I use a 20/80 pre-mix and after adding flavors I don't feel a need to thin it further. If you want to experiment with dw I would start with 5% and probably not go over 10%.

The flavoring is included in the 20%, I am using 80% vg them the rest in pg & flavor.
 

Fernand

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I use the same mix in all the possible cartos and atties, including eGo-Ts, EMDCCs, Echo-Es, Boges, Resurrectors, i06, 306, Joye atties, HH.357, the MadVapes dual coil carto tanks with the tiny hole, etc., at 3.3 to 5 volts.

In 10 ml of VG with some Nicotine in 100% VG and under 20 drops total of flavoring in PG (0.030 ml/drop, 0.6 ml max) I add 5 drops of water (0.25 ml), often tap water (in the SF Bay Area the water is very clean), other times distilled water, and 5 drops of "alcohol" (0.080 ml), from 151 Rum to 96% Grain Alcohol. So it's at least 91% VG in the final juice. At first the fact it was thicker than PG confused me, and I would sometimes add a few more drops water, up to 10%. It doesn't seem to hurt, and VG and water are perfectly miscible, but why bother?

Now I just stick to 5 and 5. That's 3.3%. And 6% max PG from the flavoring. All it takes is a little bit, enough so it flows faster than say 20 weight (or do I mean 10 weight?) motor oil when you invert a bottle. If you put it under a warm water tap to shake, you will see why: when it warms up near an atomizer, it immediately turns thin enough to wick as well as PG. But when it's cold it doesn't dribble out when you want it to stay put. Best of both worlds.

But the thing you won't believe is that at 6% worst case PG, that vapor tastes SO nice! I'm spoiled, 20% PG starts tasting a bit "industrial", but 6% is OK, thins it a bit. I'm not sure if they offered flavoring in 100% VG I'd bother switching, but who knows, how can we be sure? Maybe it WOULD be even better -- but at 6% PG it sure seems fine the way it is.
 
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I want to thank Fernand for his contributions to this thread. Big time. Thank you! Reading about the "toxicities", or "effects" of PG has really hit home with me. I have acid stomach I did not have when I smoked, I am dried out and have a lack of energy. Like Fernand cited for himself, these are not in your face level effects with me but now that I think about it.... I would like to stay off smokes and avoid these lame effects. Looks like I have to start home brewing. I have been reading up on it (obviously) and now I know I have to make the leap. Please keep this thread alive and kicking so more folks can get the knowledge and give up the PG.
 

micksf

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Looking forward to your findings. I may try it as well.

I was personally convinced to at least give it a go with your post in the 'other' thread ;)
I recently placed an order for, and just received my nic in a 50/50 blend (100mg) and if I blend that without pg (except for the minute amount in flavoring) it's a step in the right direction. Previously I've purchased nic in 100% pg and added vg to that.

I still have quite a bit of the 100% pg left though, so it'll be awhile before I dip into the new nic (I'll report back if I'm still hanging out here) and if I find it agrees with me, I may very well try 100% vg next!

I've only ever read 'bad' things about vg nic base (pockets not mixing properly, etc) except for a few poking in now and again that can't tolerate pg, so a big thank you to all that have shared their experiences otherwise! Alternatives are a good thing :)
 
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