Also need to stop these fools!

[sherid]

Oh Please...With all due respect paid to your mostly logical thoughts...you are still a smoker. Your vapes a little cleaner but you are sucking nicotine in your lungs. If you think the anti-smoking crowd sees the e-cig as different than smoking...you are shooting yourself in the foot. As a smoker, I do not go gently into the historical record, age and wisdom has taught me that what the tide washes in the tide will wash back out again. I am not an addict, I simply enjoy smoking, if you have bought into the addicted image you are a product of mainstream media. Nicotine addiction is not coded by the DSM or the ICD unless you want to STOP SMOKING. That millions of Americans are unaware of this is unfortunate and a tribute to the paid meddlers for the success of their misinformation campaign.

Perhaps you are unaware of the historical record of tobacco and society. A little background may help you understand the e-cig is not that revolutionary. Prior to mass produced cigarettes people chewed or snorted tobacco derivatives and smoked pipes or roll your owns. Most didn't inhale the smoke into their lungs and smoking was segregated into smoking rooms only. There were prescriptions and home remedies for the oils from tobacco. Thru out tobacco's history there is a love hate relationship that shifts with societal views. Smoking has been banned many times, and unbanned many times. Our current era is prohibition, it will not stand, humans hate being told what to do. So they invent an alternative that may be more amenable to the anti-smoking establishment. To bad the group sees it as too much like smoking to be acceptable. You see you can't escape the fact that smoking is smoking and nicotine is derived from big bad tobacco. If you choose to vape flavors you will still be viewed as a scofflaw in public.

An interesting site for the tobacco timeline from academia if your inclined for some informative reading. I find it useful for gaining the bigger picture;

Tobacco TimeLine

AMEN. I knew there must be a dissident voice out there. Thank you for saying it like it is.

 

[sherid]

The bad part of this as far as I see it, are claims from a large amount of e-cig suppliers and distributors.

Smoke Anywhere!! Beat the Smoking Ban!!

Anti Smokers see these statements, and they go spastic.

For most sellers, beating the ban came first, and better health followed up second.
I expect things to get much worse.

I know that is what appealed to me. Otherwise, I would never have bought my first e cig. Although I don't smoke many cigarettes these days, I choose to stick with the smokers. Cosying up to ASH and anti smokers makes me both gag and reach for a Marlboro.

 

[sherid]

I have to agree as well as disagree with your points.

I does have to do with health & smell. Especially smell. Since I've been vaping, I find analog smell offensive. As an ex analog user, I wouldn't think of complaining.

It does have to do with power, and seeing the "beat the Ban" crap, they know they'll loose power.

Not liking the smell is no excuse for banning smoking or for that matter Italian food. The smell of garlic is offensive to many....don't like it, don't go where it is a principle ingredient in food. SIMPLE

 

[Closet Toker]

Show them this: The FDA doesn't regulate (supposedly) diet nor energy products--supplemental energy boosts. Trust me, the under 18 crowd is being targeted for "energy boosters" ad they are buying them up faster than candy.

Hypocrites....

Excellent example. My 17 yr. old son and his buddies are into the energy drinks, "Monster" and Mountain Dew "Code Red". He'll drink this stuff and video game on the PS3 all friggin' night!

 

[Vapor Pete]

I really dont want to get into this again, I went around and around with another individual who just could not see the point. This is not rocket science or brain surgery. There is a valid point to the argument. All one needs to do is read the posts, process the point, agree or disagree, and move on. The point has nothing to do with personal attacks on your freedom, hiding in the shadows, joining the smokers, being spinless, unwilling to educate the public, or anything else. Read the posts.

Perception...

if you only vape in a smoking allowed area, what perception does this give? What do you then associate with vaping? What are you trying not to associate with vaping?

The point is more on the idea of... what perception does it give when you vape in no smoking areas. To the general public, its an "in your face" attitude, AT THIS POINT IN OUR "WAR", THIS IS NOT ADVANTAGEOUS. Which would, at the same time, be what I'm trying not to asscociate with vaping. You are free to vape anywhere in public. I have never said you must restrict yourself to smoking only areas, just not NON smoking areas.

Asking permssion in someone elses establishment is a courtesy, in public there are no 'rules' about vaping (are there?), so why self impose a set of rules that do not apply?

It is a courtesy. So is not blowing your vapor around a non-smoking area. There are no rules about vaping in public areas. See the above point about self impossed rules.

The reason for smoking restrictions (at least in the UK) was harm to others and 'protect the workers'. Is this the case with the e-cig?

I wont get into the reasons certain States in the USA banned smoking, but there are more than just protecting workers. And its really irrelevant if you UNDERSTAND the point that is trying to be made.

My best,
-VP

 

[orlampagal]

Just read the top part, OMG are they really that ignorant? Nicotine acts as both a vasoconstrictor and a vasodilator, which means it makes the blood vessels contract AND expand, not just contract. The preliminary studies also prove that there is no nicotine on exhale, only on inhale, as the CO2 we breathe out does not contain the same substances we breathe in (we breathe in oxygen, our lungs exchange the gasses, and we breathe out CO2) The Nicotine stops at our lungs. HOW STUPID!!!!

 

[orlampagal]

Potty Parity is a lawsuit aimed at eliminating long lines in ladies restrooms. That is something I could get behind lol. I am tired of going out to a theme park or a mall and having to wait in line to pee, while men just go in by the dozens and never have a line!

 

[ladyraj]

I really dont want to get into this again, I went around and around with another individual who just could not see the point. This is not rocket science or brain surgery. There is a valid point to the argument. All one needs to do is read the posts, process the point, agree or disagree, and move on. The point has nothing to do with personal attacks on your freedom, hiding in the shadows, joining the smokers, being spinless, unwilling to educate the public, or anything else. Read the posts.





The point is more on the idea of... what perception does it give when you vape in no smoking areas. To the general public, its an "in your face" attitude, AT THIS POINT IN OUR "WAR", THIS IS NOT ADVANTAGEOUS. Which would, at the same time, be what I'm trying not to asscociate with vaping. You are free to vape anywhere in public. I have never said you must restrict yourself to smoking only areas, just not NON smoking areas.



It is a courtesy. So is not blowing your vapor around a non-smoking area. There are no rules about vaping in public areas. See the above point about self impossed rules.



I wont get into the reasons certain States in the USA banned smoking, but there are more than just protecting workers. And its really irrelevant if you UNDERSTAND the point that is trying to be made.

My best,
-VP

Respectfully, you are misperceiving the war...the point is to be diplomatic enough to win others to your side...not alienate the e-smokers who I assume are the target of your message. Bad form. The suggestion for self-imposed rules of behavior is a sound one if delivered as an opinion...in war...self-appointed general's learn to manage individuals in the field or they are fragged by their troops.

 

[Vapor Pete]

Respectfully, you are misperceiving the war...the point is to be diplomatic enough to win others to your side...not alienate the e-smokers who I assume are the target of your message. Bad form. The suggestion for self-imposed rules of behavior is a sound one if delivered as an opinion...in war...self-appointed general's learn to manage individuals in the field or they are fragged by their troops.

With all due respect ladyraj,
I am not misperceiving the "war". As I noted before, ASH is using this angle of "getting around the ban" to rally the masses. To be diplomatic would be to kindly obey whats already in place so as not to offend, cause alarm, or give the other side further ammunition. "War" is a word I used for lack of a better term. This is absolutly an opinion. I would have thought in a "debate" such as this, what someone posts is by default an opinion since no one here can pass as law what they are saying. So by your own statement, this opinion of "self imposed rule" is sound. And by the way, I never refered to it as self imposed rule, that was someone else. One may call it what one likes.
My best,
-VP

 

[westcoast2]

The point is more on the idea of... what perception does it give when you vape in no smoking areas. To the general public, its an "in your face" attitude, AT THIS POINT IN OUR "WAR", THIS IS NOT ADVANTAGEOUS. Which would, at the same time, be what I'm trying not to asscociate with vaping. You are free to vape anywhere in public. I have never said you must restrict yourself to smoking only areas, just not NON smoking areas.

I understand your point about courtesy and avoiding being in peoples faces. The reasons for asking about association was because if smoking is restricted in certain places (and more and more 'public' palces) and you abide by restrictions made for smoking then the public will asscociate vaping with smoking.

By smoking allowed area I meant any area that is not designated non-smoking. On re-reading this could mean a DSA (Designated smoking area) though that was not what I had in mind at the time of writing.

There is a denormalization campaign underway. Part of that is anything that looks like smoking is frowned upon. We have come to this situation because (IMHO) many reasonable people who smoke were prepared to compromise. This compromise lead to more and more restrcitions until we are where we are.

One of the key instruments used was that ETS causes harm to others. Non-smokers supported this idea and many people who smoke were made to feel guilty. This helped bans to be pushed through. Does SHV have the same impact on the health of the non-smoker?

Years ago many smokers would ask 'do you mind if I smoke'. The answer was almost always 'go ahead'. Not so now. Perhaps, in places that are non-smoking designated, asking if anyone objects, to you vaping, rather than refraining might be a way forward?

A sports stadium, local to me. is designated non-smoking. It is large and in the open air. Should people who vape also obey this rule?

ASH is using this angle of "getting around the ban" to rally the masses. To be diplomatic would be to kindly obey whats already in place so as not to offend, cause alarm, or give the other side further ammunition. "War" is a word I used for lack of a better term.

What is already in place? No vaping or no smoking?

I agree with you on the diplomatic front. Though more on the 'if no one objects' go ahead rather than abstain first. Since the latter challenges very little, the former at least raises the issue. If people object perhaps do not start or refrain after starting. Others may even suggest that this is an opportunity for eduction. (low key and diplomatic of course)

If ASH is about control then abiding by what they want (when there is no law) is allowing them to control you. ASH might wish to rally the masses, though if what you are doing is of no harm to 'the masses' how will the masses know if they do not see it for themselves?

I think we both agree that diplomacy is the best way forward.

 

[Vapor Pete]

Ok. Again, this isnt rocket science. This is the simplest way I can say it:

If the discussion is about a group who is explicitly saying, in essence, "Look at these people with their e-cigs... touting them in non smoking areas, thinking they are being healthier...blah blah blah..." Then to go ahead and actually feed into that by trying to vape in no-smoking areas only fuels and adds credence to their campaign. Thats all. I am saying given the topic, now would not be the time to "be that guy". If you disagree with that, I would find your ability to rationalize suspect.
You do not have to follow that opinion, but to not understand it is beyond me.
My best,
-VP

 

[ladyraj]

Ok. Again, this isnt rocket science. This is the simplest way I can say it:

If the discussion is about a group who is explicitly saying, in essence, "Look at these people with their e-cigs... touting them in non smoking areas, thinking they are being healthier...blah blah blah..." Then to go ahead and actually feed into that by trying to vape in no-smoking areas only fuels and adds credence to their campaign. Thats all. I am saying given the topic, now would not be the time to "be that guy". If you disagree with that, I would find your ability to rationalize suspect.
You do not have to follow that opinion, but to not understand it is beyond me.
My best,
-VP

Perhaps if you left the rock science and "ability to rationalize" out of it your point may be more palatable. I'm just saying....

 

[Vapor Pete]

Perhaps if you left the rock science and "ability to rationalize" out of it your point may be more palatable. I'm just saying....

Ladyraj, my above post was not directed at you, or anyone really. I was simply speaking out. I appoligize if the rocket science and ability to rationalize comments made my point less appealing to you.

My best,
-VP

 

[ladyraj]

Ladyraj, my above post was not directed at you, or anyone really. I was simply speaking out. I appoligize if the rocket science and ability to rationalize comments made my point less appealing to you.

My best,
-VP

I'm just used to different way of communicating and perhaps my lack of experience makes it more difficult to view the whole forest while I'm focused on the trees. I'm working on it and I appreciate your response to my posts. My best to you as well...such a great sign off!

 

[playerags]

I am going to vape where smoking is not allowed. Only because I live in a rural area in the midwest where people don't really give a crap what others do with their lives. It is a place where people don't force their beliefs on others and if it doesn't directly concern them, they don't care. Yes, there still is places like that in this country. We do now have smoking bans in place. My parents own a tavern and both smoke. They also live there. They will no longer be able to smoke in their own building. Not because the people in the community want smoking banned, it's because people in Milwaukee, Madison, Green Bay, and Appleton want it banned. It started as town ordinances. And now it's going to be statewide. Why is it going to be statewide? Can't the communities govern themselves? I don't care what people are doing on the other side of the state. Why do they care what I am doing? The answer is: because the smokers were going to the communities where smoking was allowed, and that just wasn't fair boo hoo. I am getting sooo tired of the liberal bull in this country I wish I could move. But Canada is worse, and Mexico, well there is a reason they are hopping fence and coming here. I am sorry I am ranting and it may be off topic. But please people, the answers are right in front of your face. You see it now because it is finally hitting home with something YOU care about. Every special interest group is a special interest group because they have an agenda. That agenda usually involves taking freedoms away from the masses. These special interest groups are the minority! That, by definition, makes them special. Another thing that a big majority of these special interest groups have in common is they are liberal democrats. Elections have consequences people.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I am going to vape where smoking is not allowed. Only because I live in a rural area in the midwest where people don't really give a crap what others do with their lives. It is a place where people don't force their beliefs on others and if it doesn't directly concern them, they don't care. Yes, there still is places like that in this country. We do now have smoking bans in place. My parents own a tavern and both smoke. They also live there. They will no longer be able to smoke in their own building. Not because the people in the community want smoking banned, it's because people in Milwaukee, Madison, Green Bay, and Appleton want it banned. It started as town ordinances. And now it's going to be statewide. Why is it going to be statewide? Can't the communities govern themselves? I don't care what people are doing on the other side of the state. Why do they care what I am doing? The answer is: because the smokers were going to the communities where smoking was allowed, and that just wasn't fair boo hoo. I am getting sooo tired of the liberal bull in this country I wish I could move. But Canada is worse, and Mexico, well there is a reason they are hopping fence and coming here. I am sorry I am ranting and it may be off topic. But please people, the answers are right in front of your face. You see it now because it is finally hitting home with something YOU care about. Every special interest group is a special interest group because they have an agenda. That agenda usually involves taking freedoms away from the masses. These special interest groups are the minority! That, by definition, makes them special. Another thing that a big majority of these special interest groups have in common is they are liberal democrats. Elections have consequences people.

Hear-hear!!

 

[randomane]

This is my first post reply and I just have to say that "I love you guys" I am so tired of being the bad bad second class citizen out to destroy the enviroment and each and every other personin my vicinity. I laughed when I read your responses and Thank God some one else is like me. I just want to be left alone to be myself but every time I turn around I find myself in rebel mode. Don't these gestapo have anything else to do? BTW If things like water pipes and such are legal because there is no drug in them doesn't that also apply to our ecig aparatus minus the juice? In my estimation if I have the hardware I can vape straight "no nic" juice that I make myself. Am I wrong?

 

[RandallFlagg]

This is my first post reply and I just have to say that "I love you guys" I am so tired of being the bad bad second class citizen out to destroy the enviroment and each and every other personin my vicinity. I laughed when I read your responses and Thank God some one else is like me. I just want to be left alone to be myself but every time I turn around I find myself in rebel mode. Don't these gestapo have anything else to do? BTW If things like water pipes and such are legal because there is no drug in them doesn't that also apply to our ecig aparatus minus the juice? In my estimation if I have the hardware I can vape straight "no nic" juice that I make myself. Am I wrong?

You can. Hell, you can just buy a bottle of vegetable glycerin and puff away with that. You'd be the only one who'd know.

 

[westcoast2]

If the discussion is about a group who is explicitly saying, in essence, "Look at these people with their e-cigs... touting them in non smoking areas, thinking they are being healthier...blah blah blah..." Then to go ahead and actually feed into that by trying to vape in no-smoking areas only fuels and adds credence to their campaign. Thats all

If a group is saying "Look at these people with their e-cigs... touting them in non smoking areas, thinking they are being healthier...blah blah blah..." then so what? What business is it of theirs? Vaping isn't smoking is it?

They could also say "Look at these people with their orange juices...touting them in non alcohol allowed areas, thinking they are being healthier..." So we should stop drinking orange juice in alcohol free zones because it looks like drinking whiskey?

VP with respect, while agreeing 'touting' and 'flaunting' are provacative, how do you breakdown this groups influence with the public without being 'out there', showing and educating?

 

[Cancer]

Seriously im on both sides of this idealistic battle. I agree with Bob on educating and being a courteous vaper "TO A POINT". I will vape in non-smoking areas freely(Walmart etc) but exhale into my shirt. I will ask if it is an eating place or non-smoking bar. I have never been told no and always demonstrate when asked about my device(cannot wait for my Prodigy). Yet i am ANGRY when someone is wearing too much cologne or perfume and im sneezing,yet i feel powerless to criticize them. I get angry at doorways to eating establishments when 50 smokers are powerbaking in my childs face as we walk in. So in the interest of keeping my sanity, i guess i agree with both of you.