Am I the only one that has a problem with this?
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I think people fail to fully realize how thin the line we walk is with ecigs. Giving irrational people or organizations anything they can use as propaganda against vaping is very unwise. This fight isn't going to be won on logic it's going to be won in the court of public opinion.
If people know the truth that these things are saving lives we have a good chance. If people think we are a bunch of illegal drug using "lowlifes" that like shiny smoke machines we are almost certainly doomed. That is why keeping the ECF a clean and knowledgeable forum is so important, it's our responsibility as members to act in the best interest of others and not cause everyone to lose their right to a healthier alternative.
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If people know the truth that these things are saving lives we have a good chance. If people think we are a bunch of illegal drug using "lowlifes" that like shiny smoke machines we are almost certainly doomed. That is why keeping the ECF a clean and knowledgeable forum is so important, it's our responsibility as members to act in the best interest of others and not cause everyone to lose their right to a healthier alternative.
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The other side of the coin whether we agree with the law or not, said topic (the use of, sale, possession and purchase of) is against the law. And the whole counter culture promoting it is saying I don't care, I'll do what I want, I know better, nobody can tell me what to do, but it makes me feel good. There's a lot of people that feel the same way about rape and murder. Right or wrong laws are make to protect (in theory at least) not to remove freedom.
I don't care where we go, there are rules and rightly so. Can you imagine the chaos of a society without them? It's not like the government is taking away peoples right to eat or work, they are taking away the liberty to exist in society in a chemically altered mental state of mind that will allow you the boldness to do things that you might not do sober and in the process, hurt yourself or someone else. There's enough people that you don't want roaming free on the streets sober let alone with their minds altered or their mental guards down.
I am not ignorant or speaking from the outside without knowledge or experience, I grew up in the 70s on the tail end of the substance abuse revolution and swam in every pool I came across. I managed to make it out before drowning and only screwed my life up marginally, and only hurt a few loved ones in the process.
The rules are present like them or not. ECF has both the right and the responsibility to enforce them. If people want a community forum where they can openly discuss their illegal activity of choice then they should go elsewhere to do it, the avenues already exist. With as much as they scream that they have a right to do and talk about what ever they want (really? granted by whom?) Others have a right not to have that lifestyle thrown in their faces, especially those who are struggling to escape the grips that it has or has had on them. But even those who have never partaken. Where is that right granted? Both by law and by EFC rules and guidelines.
I'm not diminishing the value of said people. All sorts of people find themselves in that place and we all have our vices after all. (Most people have the common sense to be ashamed and do their dirty deeds in the dark and not in the open light). But as long as one is willing to sensationalize the lifestyle and openly and brazenly defy the laws, then they will and are by proxy guilty of assisting in drawing others into that illegal lifestyle who might not have been had it not been flaunted unchallenged and so brazenly to them.
Like I said before though, you can only hope to influence, you can never expect to change people. I will support ECF's decision and responsibility to keep that kind of talk out of these forums. But I will not shun or refuse to talk to these people or give ecig related advice just because of their lifestyle. But don't expect me to engage in helping them in their folly either. It's not the people that we should shun but the lifestyle.
In other words, 420ers are welcome here, as are murderers and rapists to discuss all things ecig related. Please just don't boldly and openly discuss and sensationalize those things that you would want your children protected from. Keep this a place where like minded people can brainstorm and share in this common interest and express your other interests elsewhere.
You have a very skewed idea of a dry drunk. I have no problem with medical or even recreational use of drugs that have very low physical addictive properties. That's like saying I'm on a dry drunk because I accept that other people can safely drink when I can't and have no desire to do so. Prime example is I am an addict where as my father shows no sign of physical or psychological dependency yet uses a plant for pain relief against MS he has been battling since '89. He chooses this over the highly addictive opiates the doctors try and force down his throat. He is a very successful lawyer and maintains an addict free lifestyle. He has none of the "isms" I have. Just because I understand that some people like myself are predisposed to being psychologically addicted to anything (vaping included) doesn't mean I'm on a dry drunk. It means I understand the difference between being an addict and not being an addict. I have changed physically,emotionally,and spiritually over the past 10 years, far beyond where I was in '02. Believe what you want but there are people in this world that can use alcohol and not be addicted to it.
I'd say going around blowing huge plumes of vapor and drawing attention will end up doing just as much damage. I get the feeling that a lot vapers want to be able to go and do as they please, and vape anywhere they see fit, no matter how it looks. I say, we should all learn to keep our vapor as low key as possible. Don't hide our devices, or act suspicious, bit practice "stealth" vaping when we are anywhere except the comfort of home or out of sight of large groups of people. This is one area where the "lowlifes" ( I'm kinda offended by the that term in this thread) have a distinct advantage...see, they are very a customed to taking a big lung hit and holding it in for an extended period. If everyone stealthed, there wouldn't really be an issue because no one would see the vapor. Kinda like when I'm gassy... If they don't stink, I can pass gas quietly all day and go unnoticed, but if I rip them loudly, even if there is no smell people will still find it offensive.
It's fine and great to educate, but flaunting vaporizer use is asking for trouble. With the attitudes of some here, they have more to worry about then what the so called lowlifes are adapting mod uses for.
Nicotine is a drug.
So is coffee
So is alcohol
so is aspirin.
Personally I think we should coexist peacefully with the legalize it crowd
So is coffee
So is alcohol
so is aspirin.
Personally I think we should coexist peacefully with the legalize it crowd
I'm a freedom-lover, I guess. Many of us are or we wouldn't be here. The thing is, though, that freedom is like a nutritional component - get just enough of it and you're fine, too much and you're dead.
Ultimate freedom is ultimately lethal: it means the freedom to do anything, anywhere, anytime. I like the idea that other people's freedoms are restricted because that's what keeps me alive. I can't really complain if mine are equally restricted.
There is a line to be drawn somewhere, the argument is simply where to draw the line.
Here, we are engaged in a propaganda war against people with a vast amount more power and money than us, who believe they have enough power to use us as cash generation units to be milked and then disposed of. They are working to preserve their ability to write your death certificate for you, after taking as much cash as they can.
As a result we need to keep our eye on the prize. Some of the methods used in this war might be a bit painful but there is a reason. Wars hurt, that's the way it is. ECF could easily say, "We're just a forum, it's not our problem". Some other people did. We choose to take it forward the way we think best when up against people with far more clout than any small group of citizens. In a perfect world we could be perfectly free; but this world is corrupted, subverted, in thrall to who pays the most.
In such a world, survival is the primary goal. If you survive, you build a power base strong enough to resist attack. After that, you can maybe get some freedom back. No one with an axe held over their head is free, the game is to turn the tables.
Ultimate freedom is ultimately lethal: it means the freedom to do anything, anywhere, anytime. I like the idea that other people's freedoms are restricted because that's what keeps me alive. I can't really complain if mine are equally restricted.
There is a line to be drawn somewhere, the argument is simply where to draw the line.
Here, we are engaged in a propaganda war against people with a vast amount more power and money than us, who believe they have enough power to use us as cash generation units to be milked and then disposed of. They are working to preserve their ability to write your death certificate for you, after taking as much cash as they can.
As a result we need to keep our eye on the prize. Some of the methods used in this war might be a bit painful but there is a reason. Wars hurt, that's the way it is. ECF could easily say, "We're just a forum, it's not our problem". Some other people did. We choose to take it forward the way we think best when up against people with far more clout than any small group of citizens. In a perfect world we could be perfectly free; but this world is corrupted, subverted, in thrall to who pays the most.
In such a world, survival is the primary goal. If you survive, you build a power base strong enough to resist attack. After that, you can maybe get some freedom back. No one with an axe held over their head is free, the game is to turn the tables.
I Like that approach. Free speech with 'class'. I think anyone that has read this forum can clearly see ECF is not even 'remotely' about drugs nor promoting such.
This. Get over yourself! Who the F are you to say what flavors are permissible? I can tell you, the Marry Jane flavoring tastes NOTHING nor smells NOTHING of the real deal. I know: I'm a glass art pipe maker and a proud tree vaper (Yes, vaper of a plant. Vaping, even the term, was around WAY before e-cigs. The plant vaporizers make e-cigs look like absolute junk!). Storz & Bickel make an incredible vaporizer- The Volcano. STORZ & BICKEL!!! And it's been around for about a decade before the TW Volcano.
Not to mention, it's proven to be NOT HARMFUL!!!! 2 states have legalized it and more are to follow. America is ready for this!!!! It's time; the drug war was a complete failure. Even Bill Clinton just said so!!!
Did you know that there has never been one recorded overdose causing a death because of this demonized plant. Can you say that about Pharaceuticals? Especially pain killers. I know what pain killer I prefer to use. The green. It even works better.
So yeah, I'd say it's your problem that you need to get over.
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Not to mention, you waive that right to free speech when you sign up and post here.
Seriously? Look up "sober" in Webster's. Get the B.S. AA rhetoric out of here.
If you're in AA and 'sober' under their definition, I applaud you. This isn't the place for AA's own definitions of words.
Herbal vapes are light years ahead of ecigs. Provari has nothing on STORZ & BICKEL. Now they make a fine product. Going 7 years strong.
Thanks to both, I never need a lighter.
I think if it bothers you, then your the person we are fighting aginst in the war on ecigs. Closed minds, close doors.
Thanks to both, I never need a lighter.
I think if it bothers you, then your the person we are fighting aginst in the war on ecigs. Closed minds, close doors.
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When logic fails resort to personal attacks right? Not once but twice.Spock would be disappointed in you captain.
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Do you consider "Reffer Madness" legit data?
"surprised that "herbal addicts" have enough testosterone left in their system to muster...." You do know that's been fact checked and dismissed for years now, correct. Go to NORML.org for REAL facts on herbs. Until then, just stop.
The test is actually ~10 seconds. A few drops of e-juice in to a drug test baggie. A vile is broken inside the baggie, the chemical from the vile turns a color. What color it turns depends on what is put in the baggie drug test kit.
I laughed at you calling 12 step programs, which you act like you know so much of, 10 step programs. So congrats at tearing down your own strawman. :cheers:
And how is saying to leave the AA rhetoric out of here an "attack"?
If those are personal attacks to you, I strongly suggest growing thicker skin.
I don't think it's a free speech issue.
This is the e cig forum. Not the Snoop Dogg hookah house.
This is the e cig forum. Not the Snoop Dogg hookah house.
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