An idea for avoiding FDA approval or control

[LaceyUnderall]

Nope. vaping is urban slang for smoking marijuana or tobacco through a vaporizer.

We don't have to defend ourselves against tobacco cigarettes. We simply put ourselves up in comparison for the differences. We have to present A vs. B and prove why B should be given clearance if A has clearance.

Lithium Quote: defend the fact that taking nicotine from vapor is better than burn it up and inhale the smoke?

If the fight against smoking is truly health related, then removing one potential health risk (SHS) is definitely a step in the right direction. A clearly stated point, hounded over and over, turns into propaganda which people will believe. They do it against us. We just have to do it back.

 

[katink]

If that's true, e-smoking is dead. Finished. Erect the tombstone. We will never be NRT and the process alone will take these off the market for years and assure our beloved Big Pharmaceutical and Big Tobacco of hearings to oppose these dangerous devices for addicts. We have been and must remain a cigarette alternative, nothing else, with no further claims made.

I think the homeopathic path would be a wonderful way out of the mess with not being tobacco nor being (or wanting to be, totally agree on that one) NRT. As for terms and abbreviations, I think the HRA-path (combined if possible with the homeopathic path, if that keeps as promising as it is at first glance) should be the terms we want ourselves under (HRA - Harm Reduction Alternative). That is if we háve to fall under one of the known terms (as to HRA). So a Harm Reducing Tobacco Alternative, in fact... HRTA. (I choose for that term, rather then NRT or 'healthy/healthier', because of the opposition against use of the word 'healthier' at this time , and the unwanted NRT-term with all the loss accompanying that, indeed I too think e-smoking in the way it now is, and should be because that way it helps so many would be in the graveyard then.)

Great find Lacey! Very much worth a more in-depth look indeed!

 

[swanee]

I see a lot of nice support for this or that but to me the biggest move will come when the chinese manufactures will remarket and start seling these as herbal vaporizers ......About e-Cigarettes - Electronic Cigarettes | Electronic Cigarette - Super Mini e Cigarette sale buy from China | E-Cigarette-Blog.com theres too many lies going down in the name of profitsss

 

[Kate]

Vape comes from vapour, not vapid. Vapour is not smoke even if it is the vapour from cannabis.
Smoking comes from smoke (created by combustion)
Tobacco comes from a herb.
Nicotine is a toxic, addictive extract from some plants.

If we do not use words accurately we are going to be hopeless at representing ourselves. Twist meanings for yourself by all means but officials will only be insulted if you try to evade the facts. In many places it's the spirit of the law that counts, the intent, not the letter/words.

It doesn't matter what we say, this will all be legally defined, categorised and regulated by authorities as they see fit, probably in a much more accurate, scientific way than we're doing. I know which horse I'm backing and it isn't being allowed to 'smoke' or take poison in the long term.

Maybe we are smoking tobacco.
Maybe we are quitting smoking.
Maybe we are taking a medicine.
Maybe we are receiving homoeopathic treatment.
Maybe we don't get twice the dose of a cig in the same amount of time.
Maybe a dose is fourteen puffs even though that is not how we commonly dose ourselves.
Maybe the US won't consider nicotine liquid a poison in the same way the British and Australian authorities have defined it.
Maybe nicotine is a medicine.
Maybe smokers could use a harm reduction medicine to quit smoking tobacco.
Maybe harm reduction strategies are just excuses for weak wills and people should be able to quit cold turkey.
Maybe a committed vaper is a smoker even if they don't use tobacco and there is no merit in claiming that it helps some of us to quit.

In time we'll see what authorities make of it all. Fingers crossed, hey.

 

[swanee]

Vape comes from vapour, not vapid. Vapour is not smoke even if it is the vapour from cannabis.
Smoking comes from smoke (created by combustion)
Tobacco comes from a herb.
Nicotine is a toxic, addictive extract from some plants.

If we do not use words accurately we are going to be hopeless at representing ourselves. Twist meanings for yourself by all means but officials will only be insulted if you try to evade the facts. In many places it's the spirit of the law that counts, the intent, not the letter/words.

It doesn't matter what we say, this will all be legally defined, categorised and regulated by authorities as they see fit, probably in a much more accurate, scientific way than we're doing. I know which horse I'm backing and it isn't being allowed to 'smoke' or take poison in the long term.

Maybe we are smoking tobacco.
Maybe we are quitting smoking.
Maybe we are taking a medicine.
Maybe we are receiving homoeopathic treatment.
Maybe we don't get twice the dose of a cig in the same amount of time.
Maybe a dose is fourteen puffs even though that is not how we commonly dose ourselves.
Maybe the US won't consider nicotine liquid a poison in the same way the British and Australian authorities have defined it.
Maybe nicotine is a medicine.
Maybe smokers could use a harm reduction medicine to quit smoking tobacco.
Maybe harm reduction strategies are just excuses for weak wills and people should be able to quit cold turkey.
Maybe a committed vaper is a smoker even if they don't use tobacco and there is no merit in claiming that it helps some of us to quit.

In time we'll see what authorities make of it all. Fingers crossed, hey.

I guess i'm just thinking more how to get around whatever bull**** the fda comes up with. you rename a ecig a electronic herbal vaporizer and that box will have no problem going through customs....

 

[Kate]

Yeah, that could be true but we still call them ecigs, ecigarettes and electronic cigarettes for now. Authorities have started using common terms already for legal definitions, we might have missed the boat. Certainly for future progress we need to describe what we do and what it's called accurately. Sneaking around laws won't happen because they are not about semantics but intent. Perceptions and attitudes can be influenced however.

 

[surbitonPete]

I can't help thinking that unless it's harmful to the lungs ...E-cigarettes seem to have the potential to be a great way to deliver a lot of medicinal drugs.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I see a lot of nice support for this or that but to me the biggest move will come when the chinese manufactures will remarket and start seling these as herbal vaporizers ......About e-Cigarettes - Electronic Cigarettes | Electronic Cigarette - Super Mini e Cigarette sale buy from China | E-Cigarette-Blog.com theres too many lies going down in the name of profitsss

Yes. Let me put into perspective who the e-cigarette-chain-gain.com really is.

Electronic Cigarette Blog | Everyone is an expert on e-cigarette, Wholesale E-Cigarette - China Ruyan Wholesale - Discount Electronic Cigarette Wholesale From China, E-Cigarette-Global.com | The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat and ruyan are one in the same. They also have another 25 sites... and all of them are content stealing... Google e-cigarette-mart.com... You will find our site as #3 and theirs as #1 & #2.

Two years ago we wrote on our blog: "The electronic cigarette is a revolutionary device that acts much the same way an ordinary tobacco cigarette would, but rather than toxic smoke, it produces vaporized nicotine."

Does that look familiar? Rep. Ruyan stole it and now, it is being mass produced world wide because all suppliers think this is from the manufacturer. It is not. It is ours. I feel bad because we have to "hunt" all of the innocent... but that's ok... Google and Yahoo and MSN have been alerted so eventually, the chain gang will hopefully not be accessible via those search engines any longer.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Vape comes from vapour, not vapid. Vapour is not smoke even if it is the vapour from cannabis.
Smoking comes from smoke (created by combustion)
Nicotine is a toxic, addictive extract from some plants.

If you can find me a link to any dictionary that says this... I would appreciate it. I can't find one. Only to the urban dictionary Urban Dictionary: vape. The only reason vape #4 has high hits is because RTV's effort to vote it up.

Tobacco comes from a herb.

It's a plant and it becomes an herb when the nicotine is pulled from the tobacco leaf.

In many places it's the spirit of the law that counts, the intent, not the letter/words.

Agreed. And when the powers that be look at it, it will be smoking.

It doesn't matter what we say, this will all be legally defined, categorised and regulated by authorities as they see fit, probably in a much more accurate, scientific way than we're doing. I know which horse I'm backing and it isn't being allowed to 'smoke' or take poison in the long term.

Maybe we are smoking tobacco.
Maybe we are quitting smoking.
Maybe we are taking a medicine.
Maybe we are receiving homoeopathic treatment.
Maybe we don't get twice the dose of a cig in the same amount of time.
Maybe a dose is fourteen puffs even though that is not how we commonly dose ourselves.
Maybe the US won't consider nicotine liquid a poison in the same way the British and Australian authorities have defined it.
Maybe nicotine is a medicine.
Maybe smokers could use a harm reduction medicine to quit smoking tobacco.
Maybe harm reduction strategies are just excuses for weak wills and people should be able to quit cold turkey.
Maybe a committed vaper is a smoker even if they don't use tobacco and there is no merit in claiming that it helps some of us to quit.

In time we'll see what authorities make of it all. Fingers crossed, hey.

As a user, that's great. You want to quit smoking tobacco and eventually you want to quit "vaping". That's great. As a user, I want to quit smoking tobacco, but I have no desire to quit smoking. Again, I keep coming back to I choose to smoke. Someone else chooses to stuff their face with McDonalds. I certainly don't tell them it's wrong, even though it is just as damaging as smoking AND it is an acceptable form of child abuse.

When you are done with "vaping", there will still be millions of us who choose to continue smoking. And as far as HRTA suggestion by katink, that's what I am talking about.

We all have to accept that the tobacco industry will eventually not be the force it is now. FSC cigarettes are going to be mandatory US wide by 2010. That's next year! No manufacturer will manufacturer anything but! Why wouldn't we as users and suppliers of the electronic cigarette industry, align ourselves down the middle?

The fact is the FDA/HPSC/Health Canada/Ministry of Health/Etc... is going to look at any vaporizing device, use the sample and say: "this is smoking". Whether it is labeled a personal vaporizer or cigarette is not going to matter.

And... it is the "Quit Smoking" printed in the manuals that is sending up the red flags.

 

[Kate]

Lacey, it doesn't bother me if you smoke, you carry on.

I vape. I use a device to make vapour which I inhale and call it vaping. To me it doesn't come from vapid, I think in the context we are using it it doesn't refer to vapid or cannabis.

Good luck with the smoking.

 

[TropicalBob]

Crash. We hit a dead end. I'll not comment further either. But Lacey, please pursue this as best you can keep us e-smokers up to date.

 

[surbitonPete]

Whatever way you look at it isn't 'smoking' in the true sense of the word. Perhaps we should call it 'steaming' or 'misting' ..

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Crash. We hit a dead end. I'll not comment further either. But Lacey, please pursue this as best you can keep us e-smokers up to date.

Agreed. And I am working on this...

CigArrest has had to put up a good fight against the anti-tobacco lobby. However, they are using lobella inflata in their product which is aka Indian Tobacco. It has similar properties to nicotine. Have you ever used this?

PS- AHHH on this server too busy stuff.

 

[ladybug51]

Well I got to read page one before the nasty little "The Server is too busy" piece of caca. I'll bet anyone $1K this doesn't get posted right away. It's 10:24AM here.

Bah Humbug!

I think it's a different posting that the site is having problems.

 

[ladybug51]

I'll be squat. It posted! Too bad no one had time to bet me.

Ha ha ha. Now let's see if this one does. The first one said 11:19. How does this forum decide what time it is?

 

[ladybug51]

Lets try again.

One of the BIG reasons they say is it allows children to smoke. Like they can't smoke real cigs. if they want to?

This might already have been addressed, but each time I want to go to any previous page, the server is too busy. Yet I'm here now. ???

 

[ladybug51]

Lets try again.

One of the BIG reasons they say is it allows children to smoke. Like they can't smoke real cigs. if they want to?

This might already have been addressed, but each time I want to go to any previous page, the server is too busy. Yet I'm here now. ???

 

[Cage]

I don't know much about the laws in other countries, and I have no idea if these things will be banned or allowed in the U.S., initially. (more research must be done, we are looking into this, blah, blah blah)
Health issues, child safety, FDA responsibility, etc. are all great bullet points and I'm sure many speeches will be written on this new "evil".
But pay no attention to the man behind the curtain ladies and gentleman.
When the powers that be determine how much they can profit from our addiction, you can bet your last dollar that approval, control and our beloved vice taxes are well on their way.
As the number of smokers decreases, so does the revenue. Our government "knows" smoking kills x amount of people each year. Cigarettes are still for sale. Why? We all know the answer... money.
I'm not worried about losing my new toy. I may have been able to escape the grip tobacco had on me, but I know the tax man is never letting go.
8-o

 

[Myk]

I don't think you need a "how many puffs do people take" to equal a dose. It's how much the manufacturer/distributors say is a dose.
Advil is a good example of this. 200mg-400mg of Ibuprofen is OTC. 800mg is prescription only.

You can chug a whole box of ginseng extract if you want even though the maker says one bottle is a dose.

Looking to herbals/alternative medicines is the answer, IMO.
And that is along the lines of what I've been saying. The e-juice is tobacco extract with flavorings added. They haven't been able to successfully claim herbal extracts are drugs.

The only hope is to slap the FDA's hands and say this is indeed a tobacco product. Otherwise you will need someone to pay them for the OK to be approved (which like with Chantix won't really matter if it's safe or not rather how much someone pays the government).

 

[TropicalBob]

I just have to break my silence and say how delighted I am to learn that the nicotine patch is a tobacco product, as is nicotine gum, nicotine lozenges and the prescription-only nicotine nasal spray. By using nicotine mixed with other chemicals, they become tobacco products -- because, doncha see, the nicotine comes from a tobacco plant! Voila! There was no need for all that clinical trial stuff they went through, or the expensive application and approval process.

Because they contain nicotine, they were all exempt from FDA regulation!

Boy, I bet Big Pharmaceutiful feels stupid now, since the FDA can't regulate tobacco products like the patch, gum, inhaler, nasal spray, lozenges. And if those don't need regulation, then the FDA certainly has no authority over a vial of chemicals that contains some of the exact same drug -- nicotine.

This is comforting news, indeed.