The Real Scoop on FDA & eCigarettes!

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Kate

Moved On
Jun 26, 2008
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I think you're right, a commercial outfit will take the idea and make something legal with it, it's far too effective to not raise commercial interest.

It will take time to prove the product and changes might have to be made. Hopefully all the enjoyment won't be sucked out of it in the process. I can't see nicotine in higher levels than 10mg per ml being approved by authorities.
 

yvilla

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Nov 18, 2008
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I don't understand why e-cigs are being treated like they're in the same class as narcotics or dangerous drugs.

There is one important distinction to be made here - ecigs and eliquid are not being regarded or treated as "illegal" drugs, ie, narcotics. If they were, then there would be criminal sanctions for both possesion and sale.

The difficulty we are having is with the regulatory scheme applied to medical drugs. So our issue is primarily the worry of supplies being seized and potential civil liability for sale of what the FDA considers a "new drug", without the requisite permissions, that is, if they do decide to crack down.
 

TropicalBob

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Jan 13, 2008
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Hasn't happened yet, to my knowledge. The press releases -- made before the FDA started seizing e-smoking products entering the country -- said Walgreen's would start selling Njoy in April.

They ARE in Pilot and Travel Centers -- and the FDA isn't clamping down on sales. Only on imports. Of course that enforcement action will ripple through e-smoking before long, assuming the FDA doesn't go for all-out ban. If so, responsible companies will cease to sell them.

And despite the wishes of some, a black market in e-cigs would be too small to be viable. Plus, imagine what these illegal things would cost. Imagine underground nicotine solutions mixed up like moonshine in home vats. OMG! Cigs would be safer...
 

Obi Wan

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Feb 25, 2009
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i think the fda is confused right now and not sure what they want to try to do yet.
on the one hand they know these e-cigarettes are healthier then tobacco cigarettes and have already been helping people quit smoking.
on the other hand the image of rebelious smoking has been under attack for years now and everything is about controlling people and taking away our freedom.
and then of course there is the money issues which are complictated and sometimes corrupt with taxes,big pharmacies,tobacco companies,etc..

just my opinion,,
which i got from reading all of these awesome comments..
reading these forums and smoking my new hybrid pilots are helping me quit winstons.
 

redrose

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Jan 29, 2009
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Has anyone ever received a shipment after it was held by customs? I ask this because (as I posted in another thread) I believe the only reason some shipments are scrutinized is solely based on poor packaging. Leaking or open cartons are what would would draw attention to a package. So I'm wondering what the condition of the box was from anyone who provided documentation and had their shipment released.
The FDA has much bigger problems than e-cigs. Recently a large group of FDA scientists contacted the Obama team to tell them of Corrupt, lethal and prosecutable actions and payoffs by the highest people in the FDA. They promoted scientists who “didn’t tell, and conducted their own investigation of complaints from within. They falsified the findings, and the proverbial s*** is about to hit the fan. The investigation by Team Obama has begun. So basically, the top FDA people are on the take, and I’m guessing big tobacco was the grease.

The FDA has no authority over this as nicotine and tobacco is not a drug or chemical. Costco, Target and Walgreens are not opening themselves up to multimillion dollar lawsuits from class action suits by selling “illegal drugs.” And they’re not worrying that their orders are going to be held up in customs. We can rest assured their attorneys have been all over this. If customs receives a “tip” that possible contraband is coming in, they wait for decisions by other agencies, and in this case, that agency, the FDA makes up stuff when they're being paid to do so. That's why they can't give a straight answer.
However, the people who work on the docks and warehouses are not reading every label that comes into this country. If the box is leaking or broken, they’ll look at. I think the panic about e-cigs’s demise is needless. If you need to worry, you can worry about Tobacco lobbyists trying to dominate the market and charge ridiculous amounts for the product.
ETA http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/08/fda-scientists-complain-obama-corruption/
 
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frogbmth

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Feb 8, 2009
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www.jantyclub.com
Did you see what Pillbox posted this morning on the Totally Wicked forum, about his shipment to TWUASA

i was informed yesterday that goods i sent in bulk to the USA were being held..FDA demanding my FDA number for the nicotine product..Which i cannot supply because there isnt one..These are now being returned to me..
 

SilverEagleBW

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Feb 10, 2009
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I don't know how many of you know of this little device,sure bob does,take a look here'

Vapir Mini Oxygen Vaporizer v2.0 @ GOTVAPE.com

The video mentions if you use this you can cut down up to 95% of the harmful byproducts associated with smoking.From what i see this product has no FDA approval,it is sold as a vaporizer and you inhale herbs with it.So tell me,the FDA checked on all possible herbs you can use with this and none are harmfull?,I don't think so,however there is a herb i wouldn't mind trying with this thingy,,,,,,,:D:D:D(coughs)

If this product can be sold legally without any FDA control,then i see no reason why our e-cigs should be either,we must remove the association with the word CIGARETTE,but that might be to late now.Somewhere along the line i am sure the FDA will crack down on the e-liquids,the is no way around that at all.I am afraid our ship is sinking and fast here.:(
 

LaceyUnderall

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Dec 4, 2008
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The FDA has much bigger problems than e-cigs. Recently a large group of FDA scientists contacted the Obama team to tell them of Corrupt, lethal and prosecutable actions and payoffs by the highest people in the FDA. They promoted scientists who “didn’t tell, and conducted their own investigation of complaints from within. They falsified the findings, and the proverbial s*** is about to hit the fan. The investigation by Team Obama has begun. So basically, the top FDA people are on the take, and I’m guessing big tobacco was the grease.

Big Tobacco? I think more like Big Pharm! But this is an excellent excellent point. The FDA has some issues right now from the scientists allegations to the Peanut Butter issues. Even though Obama supported FDA control in the past, he might be thinking something different now. I can't speak for him, but I have to imagine that the cleanliness of the food supply and the integrity of the FDA is more important than giving the FDA control over something that in the past, they openly said they wanted nothing to do with and that is tobacco. Maybe Big Pharms hold is about ready to loosen?
 

TropicalBob

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Jan 13, 2008
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Wanna bet how fast Congressional approval will be of the bill to give FDA authority over tobacco? Wanna bet how lopsided the vote will be in both houses of Congress in favor of handing over control? Wanna bet Obama won't sign it publicly with a speech about "no more generations will ever be hooked on tobacco as I was?"

Do not fall for any clap-trap about the FDA being too busy. Or nervous. Or on the take. The talk is of a huge expansion of the FDA. It will find employees and time to take on tobacco. After all, where did both Surgeon General reports issue from?

Our focus must be on legalizing our form of nicotine delivery - never aligning ourselves with tobacco products. We must be better than that.

I want to revisit this thread in a month.
 

stpeters

Full Member
Feb 24, 2009
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0
Our focus must be on legalizing our form of nicotine delivery - never aligning ourselves with tobacco products. We must be better than that.

I want to revisit this thread in a month.

While I would agree in principle, and would love to see e-smoking completely replace the practice of "burning tobacco fumes inhalation" without big tobacco's help, I'm pretty sure it is not up to us who electronic cigarettes will end in bed with.

Tobacco companies (like Philip Morris and RJ) are just that - tobacco companies. They are not cigarette companies, they just happen to make that product along with many others. Entire states almost totally depend on the tobacco industry. The US produced 408 thousand tonnes of tobacco in 2000, with China leading the way at a staggering 2,298 thousand tonnes. According to the IRS: "The tax on tobacco products is now the second largest revenue generated for the U.S. Treasury, exceeded only by
the excise tax collections from gasoline."

Only one guess is needed to understand why tobacco has not been removed from our society. Our modern day society depends on tobacco to survive in it's current incarnation. No matter how much some may hate it,

This is a well matured sector of the global farming industry. Over a half a million in the US alone are employed as a direct result of tobacco farming, with well over 2 million acres of land devoted to it's production. All that tobacco has to be used somewhere.

Worldwide us humans produce almost 5 millions tonnes of tobacco a year. 4 million hectares used in it's production. A crop that generates $20 billion USD (raw wholesale, not counting taxes and retail activity). WHO states it best: "The economic value of tobacco products is vast, totalling hundreds of billions of US dollars a year".

What is my point with all this tobacco talk? The FDA (and any other regulating agency) is fundamentally powerless in the face of the government which created it. Congress already demonstrated that a couple years ago. We are talking vast amounts of money and human livelihood currently linked with tobacco production. If given a safer alternative to cigarettes that are generally accepted by the public - no matter how half-***sed and silly it seems to some - you can bet they will see that as a golden escape hatch to continue this massive industry. FDA and special interests groups be damned, full speed ahead.

--

Thus I see our duty (as e-smokers) as one to educate and demonstrate the relative innocence of e-smoking. If non-smokers say "meh, it seems harmless enough, doesn't really bother me when you do that", then the battle may soon be won.

---

If e-cigarettes become popular, the tobacco companies may decide to do whatever it takes to be the e-cigarette industry. It is simply a matter of survival. e-cigarettes become merely another outlet for there primary product - which is not analog cigarettes, but the tobacco in them. If e-cigarettes are ever to be accepted en-mass as an alternative to cigarettes, only they could hope to supply the vast quantity of tobacco (nicotine) that such an occurrence would require.

A little voice inside me hints that this may be the eventual outcome, whether anyone likes it or not. Tobacco companies would then be relatively free from law suits and other punitive actions, since they would be selling this worldwide cash crop in a decently non-deadly form.

I'm pretty sure our old nemesis Joe Camel could successfully market electronic cigarettes, how about you?

---

BTW - Propylene glycol is currently used as a humectant in raw mass-produced tobacco, so we have already been smoking it all along. Just a fun fact from the HGCA.
 

Kitabz

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Feb 11, 2009
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If e-cigarettes are ever to be accepted en-mass as an alternative to cigarettes, only they [the cigarette companies] could hope to supply the vast quantity of tobacco (nicotine) that such an occurrence would require.

Although since most of the nicotine in burning cigarettes is lost, if everyone were to switch to e-cigs, the quantity of tobacco plants required would be much less given that vaping is a more efficient use of the nicotine. (And without the need for leaves for filler, perhaps it can even be synthesised - test tube e-cig anyone?)

Mind you since many vapers consume much more nicotine than they did when smoking, perhaps this evens out!
 
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syntaxevasion

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May 17, 2008
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you're right, the levels will probably be smashed - and yet how many prescription meds get advertised with fluffy, happy, perfect people while the announcer - in a hushed voice - lists side effects describing painful, horrible death.

and those meds are FDA approved...


Love your take on it...So true :)

Ben
 
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