An open letter to vapers, politicians..

[Anjaffm]

I'll miss you dearly, Anja. I do hope you'll stop by to say hi occasionally. Thank you for all your efforts!

Yes, please do. Your presence will certainly be missed.

thank you very much, dears. I really appreciate your kind words
I will make sure to look in here once in a while.

I have always enjoyed sharing positive news, useful finds, things that can be used to either add to our argumentation or to throw in the faces of those inveterate liars who oppose our healthier alternative for (not very healthy) reasons of their own. When I find some news like this, I may well share it here

 

[Anjaffm]

Hi dears,
just checking in to say "Hi".

I have not been on ECF forever, did not feel like bothering with recouping my password after the forum change. I do not have much to say. Business as usual, hanging in limbo here in Europe, at the moment.

But today I met a lovely lady from the US, on Facebook, who was looking for some nice vaping gear for her mother (mom is a smoker who would like some nice looking vaping gear, if she is to vape at all). So I just HAD to get into ECF again to find that lovely thread "show us your girly, decorated, pink.." etc vaping gear. And, of course, the molehill mountain drip tips. The ones that I fell so in love with that I ordered two for my pleasure, all the way from the States

So, just checking in, to say "Hi"

 

[Robino1]

*Waving!!*

Hi!

 

[Jode]

An open letter to vapers, politicians, researchers and the anti-nicotine crowd » The Original Electronic Cigarette Social Media Network



good one!

Well worth reading. And sharing, if you are so inclined.

Thanks so much for the share. Most of it is a great read. The only part I don't necessarily agree with is the name calling of the next generation of vapers. I mean, let's face it, cigarettes are probably not going anywhere soon. Which means there is a whole generation of kids coming to an age where they need to chose their paths. Some will still chose to smoke, but some are seeing there is a much safer alternative and they are simply doing what their generation does best. Making it fit their "extreme" social lifestyle. We would be kidding ourselves if we think that we are the last generation to take up a bad habit, but we can hope for a wider force taking on a better habit. Of course we want our youths to pick completely healthy paths to follow but I think we all know that is kind of a pipedream. I am sorry if people don't get or agree with my stance but I want to protect our right to vape however we see fit, from the tootlepuffer that uses it to quit a long addiction to the new adult that choses a better path then smoking and wants to "chase clouds" and have fun with it and everybody in between. What we need to do for that sect is to make sure that it is acceptable so they have access to safety regarding these practices. If it were not for that part of the site I would share the heck out of it, but it asks for it not to be shared in partial. Thanks again for the share.

 

[Anjaffm]

*Waving!!*

Hi!

Waving back - and a big hug from the other side of the pond

Thanks so much for the share. Most of it is a great read.

thank you, dear

Of course we want our youths to pick completely healthy paths to follow ...

not me I do not eat ground grain mush and drink fresh spring water.. why should I expect young people to do that?

... caution: the following is a very explicit description of what is currently happening, from the point of view of formerly very active vaper of 3.5 years ...

The only part I don't necessarily agree with is the name calling of the next generation of vapers.

Well, I do not know your age or how long you have been vaping and active in the vaping community in the internet. I have been vaping since exactly 4 November 2011 ("accidental quitter" here ) and active in the vaping community since exactly 5 November 2011. Starting in my home country, Germany.

And the developments that I have seen - in the vaping community itself - have played a big role in my withdrawing from vaping activism. The most decisive role, actually.

How can a person be active in fighting for our rights, how can a person face hatred, evil, lies, corruption and pure nastiness time after time - and have no home base to return to, for support, rest and relaxation? How can a human being "go out there" and speak up - and face all that nastiness - when he / she is being continuously alienated from what used to be his / her home base? Because the formerly comfortable, supportive home base has become trends, fashion, bigger, newer, more expensive, mega-watts, clouds, super-mega-quad-twisted-coil blabla?

When the person returns to what used to be "home base" and sees those trend-people attempting to push this crap on new vapers / prospective vapers asking for starter products? Is the returning warrior supposed to fight this nonsense on "home base" too? Chaperoning the hapless new / prospective vapers, giving them the advice that they need to get started, instead of watching them turning away in horror? Like I would have turned away in horror, if people had loudly recommended xx watt, do-it-yourself coil, subohm stuff to me, when I started out?

Let me tell you something:
If, as a new vaper, I had been received like that, with those kinds of "recommendations", I would have turned away in horror and bought the next pack of cigarettes. If I had been received like this, I would still be smoking. And abhorring the thought of vaping. As something for big mouthed kiddies and technology nerds.

This is what is going on at the moment. Not only in Germany.

One of the formerly best German vaping groups on Facebook is going to the dogs. Being destroyed from the inside out. By what the admins call "sub-ohm kiddies". Loudmouthed, rude, overbearing, openly showing their contempt for anybody who is not a cloud chaser or using xxx watts. And very openly showing their contempt for any new vaper who dares to ask a new-vaper question. The admins are fighting to save the group (edit: by removing the worst offenders and heavily moderating various threads). Because it is going to the dogs.

Go to a forum, try "last postings". Lots of stuff that is not interesting for the "normal" vaper. Bigger, more expensive, more watts, blabla. Look for the old school vapers, the ones who have been vaping - and supporting, writing, advising, helping - for years. Where are they? Most of them, in my home forum, post a a little here and there, when they are in the mood. Same as I do. But the community spirit is not what it was. We do not have the patience to explain again and again - to some completely ignorant person who does, however, consume lots of liquid and use lot of watts - that no, vaping is not dangerous, no, the formaldehyde was produced by overheating the coil, no, there is no "gateway effect", no.... ad nauseam. Many of those newer people, they embrace all that technology stuff and come across very arrogantly, especially when facing those vapers who do not. BUT they have no idea about any vaping science, and they are too lazy to even open links that are readily provided. They rather expect momma or dada to pat their heads and pre-chew their "brain food" for them, and serve it to them soft and ready. Even if they have been in a vaping forum for almost a year and choose every thread on fearmongering nonsense to voice their "concerns". While consuming a lot of liquid and running high watt mods from the beginning.

Forget that. Not my kind of people, not my world.

My vaping needs are met. For the next xxx years.

I am old school.

And this is why I have withdrawn.

----------
Notice:
Yes, there are newer vapers who are carrying on the torch. And I am grateful to them.
Unfortunately, they are not as loud as those "kiddies" that I have decribed.

 

[choochoogranny]

Anja, there you are......and feisty as ever! LOL Love reading your words and stance and miss them terribly. Just hoping you are doing well and still enjoying your vape......Yes, I still buy Molehill tips. My one indulgence now-a-days, BUT they add no calories! Ha!

 

[Jode]

Of course we want our youths to pick completely healthy paths to follow ...

not me I do not eat ground grain mush and drink fresh spring water.. why should I expect young people to do that?

... caution: the following is a very explicit description of what is currently happening, from the point of view of formerly very active vaper of 3.5 years ...



Well, I do not know your age or how long you have been vaping and active in the vaping community in the internet. I have been vaping since exactly 4 November 2011 ("accidental quitter" here ) and active in the vaping community since exactly 5 November 2011. Starting in my home country, Germany.

And the developments that I have seen - in the vaping community itself - have played a big role in my withdrawing from vaping activism. The most decisive role, actually.

How can a person be active in fighting for our rights, how can a person face hatred, evil, lies, corruption and pure nastiness time after time - and have no home base to return to, for support, rest and relaxation? How can a human being "go out there" and speak up - and face all that nastiness - when he / she is being continuously alienated from what used to be his / her home base? Because the formerly comfortable, supportive home base has become trends, fashion, bigger, newer, more expensive, mega-watts, clouds, super-mega-quad-twisted-coil blabla?

When the person returns to what used to be "home base" and sees those trend-people attempting to push this crap on new vapers / prospective vapers asking for starter products? Is the returning warrior supposed to fight this nonsense on "home base" too? Chaperoning the hapless new / prospective vapers, giving them the advice that they need to get started, instead of watching them turning away in horror? Like I would have turned away in horror, if people had loudly recommended xx watt, do-it-yourself coil, subohm stuff to me, when I started out?

Let me tell you something:
If, as a new vaper, I had been received like that, with those kinds of "recommendations", I would have turned away in horror and bought the next pack of cigarettes. If I had been received like this, I would still be smoking. And abhorring the thought of vaping. As something for big mouthed kiddies and technology nerds.

This is what is going on at the moment. Not only in Germany.

One of the formerly best German vaping groups on Facebook is going to the dogs. Being destroyed from the inside out. By what the admins call "sub-ohm kiddies". Loudmouthed, rude, overbearing, openly showing their contempt for anybody who is not a cloud chaser or using xxx watts. And very openly showing their contempt for any new vaper who dares to ask a new-vaper question. The admins are fighting to save the group (edit: by removing the worst offenders and heavily moderating various threads). Because it is going to the dogs.

Go to a forum, try "last postings". Lots of stuff that is not interesting for the "normal" vaper. Bigger, more expensive, more watts, blabla. Look for the old school vapers, the ones who have been vaping - and supporting, writing, advising, helping - for years. Where are they? Most of them, in my home forum, post a a little here and there, when they are in the mood. Same as I do. But the community spirit is not what it was. We do not have the patience to explain again and again - to some completely ignorant person who does, however, consume lots of liquid and use lot of watts - that no, vaping is not dangerous, no, the formaldehyde was produced by overheating the coil, no, there is no "gateway effect", no.... ad nauseam. Many of those newer people, they embrace all that technology stuff and come across very arrogantly, especially when facing those vapers who do not. BUT they have no idea about any vaping science, and they are too lazy to even open links that are readily provided. They rather expect momma or dada to pat their heads and pre-chew their "brain food" for them, and serve it to them soft and ready. Even if they have been in a vaping forum for almost a year and choose every thread on fearmongering nonsense to voice their "concerns". While consuming a lot of liquid and running high watt mods from the beginning.

Forget that. Not my kind of people, not my world.

My vaping needs are met. For the next xxx years.

I am old school.

And this is why I have withdrawn.

----------
Notice:
Yes, there are newer vapers who are carrying on the torch. And I am grateful to them.
Unfortunately, they are not as loud as those "kiddies" that I have decribed.

I want to start my response by saying I am not arguing with you but rather trying to see the newest generation of vapers POV as well. I will be forever grateful for those that paved the path in this incredible community, however, I also feel the newer crowds need to be welcome as well. My quote about wanting our youth to pick healthy paths I think was taken a bit too literally. I am not a granola nut either (no offense to granola nuts), but would rather see a young person pick up a sport, do well in school, and be productive citizen then take up any potentially unhealthy activities and that is a far cry from eating ground mush and spring water, but words are flat and sometimes hard to decipher.

In answer to your questions, I am a few days shy of 51, a mom, and a grandmother so I do have an interest in the future of vape after I pass. I have not been a long time vaper or poster. It will be a year this August. I use a variety of equipment from simple cartos, and small tanks to the newer cloud producing RDA's and subtanks on various batteries and my main reason for vaping is to replace my 38 year old habit,2 PAD of smoking cigs. I live in the States so I have no idea of the struggles those in Germany have, nor do I know if we will follow the same path. I completely understand your position of feeling edged out, but I have yet to see that behavior in my corner of the universe. The vape shops in my area continue to do a stellar job at balancing all that come through their doors. The grass roots are still the strongest but they are also edgy enough with some cloud comps and newest equipment to drawer in the younger or newer set. If your area no longer caters to a variety of vapers that makes me sad and angry, but that is the fault of the stores not the customers. Stores should be able to present several options unless they chose to serve only a subset of vapers and if a store owner choses that it is their prerogative. I can understand the opposite side of that as well. If I owned a store and I was told that I shouldn't also serve the newer (because it is not just the young) crowd with up to date extreme equipment and fun I would say hogwash. I want to help all interested in vape over smoking and this is what appeals to them. The newer set of vapers became bored and created a way to take vaping along for the ride in their extreme world. To them it is the same thing, if they were presented with a tootlepuffer unit they would probably run screaming to the nearest pack of butts too. How is anyone of those better then the other. I think the vaping world is big enough for us all and I still say insulting one sect of it is bad form. Of course there are the rude ignorant and obnoxious know it all that don't seem to grasp the basics but that doesn't mean that all cloud chasers are that way. Most are looking for advice on how to be safe while doing their thing. But that just may be my ingrown ignore button that has the ability to "let it be".

That is how I see it. It makes me sad to see a long(er) time vaper feel trampled on. For that I am sorry.

 

[DC2]

It makes me sad to see a long(er) time vaper feel trampled on.

I liked it a lot better when we were all here to help people stop smoking.
That's all I'm going to say about that.

 

[Anjaffm]

It will be a year this August.
... and my main reason for vaping is to replace my 38 year old habit,2 PAD of smoking cigs.

Congratulations! Well done!
It was 35 years for me, and also 2 PAD in the end. That is why I switched to e-cigs. Smoking too much was not doing me good.

I completely understand your position of feeling edged out, but I have yet to see that behavior in my corner of the universe. The vape shops in my area continue to do a stellar job at balancing all that come through their doors.

Thank you, dear.
I am not talking about the shops, though. In Germany, offline shops are not as prevalent as they are in the US. Some more are opening now in my part of the country, but most of us German vapers buy online.

So our "home base" for vaping communication is online. Our home forum, some Facebook groups, some Twitter at times. My only offline vaping communication is our monthly regional vape meet (very nice!), our yearly Germany-wide vape meet (coming up in July, very much looking forward to it!) and the annual visit to the vape fair in October. Ok, and some communication, of course, with my real life vaping friends (some of whom are - now - former smokers who saw me vaping and followed suit )

And there you have the root of the problem:
Most of the communication in our vaping community takes place online.
And I do not have to tell you how rude, overbearing and obnoxious certain people can be online. From the safety of their own living rooms. While they would never dare to bleat their nonsense into a person's face in real life.

- In all my vaping life, I have had exactly one serious altercation in real life with some complete jerk vaper. And that was a guy who had the gall to use a vape meet (!) as a welcome opportunity for spreading fearmongering lies about the alleged oh-so-horrible dangers of vaping with plastic tanks (stuff and nonsense, completely unfounded, invented by some guy who studied a few terms of chemistry, did not pass the exam and now works as a plumber). This jerk loudly claimed that vaping with plastic tanks can be more dangerous than smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day. Because an alleged "chemistry professor" (the plumber) had said so on Youtube. Duh... The ensuing "conversation" between that jerk and myself was not pretty. I do not appreciate being mistaken for a complete idiot. And I do not appreciate having people spread anti-vaping propaganda at a vape meet. While blowing big huge clouds across the table with their metal tank, of course. -
(And no, he did not talk about menthol. Which can damage plastic tanks, when used in strong concentrations. The menthol thing is common knowledge. And when a tank goes cloudy / cracks, you throw it out and use a new one. And /or use glass tanks for such liquids. Simple. And no fearmongering necessary).

That was one incident in real life. But online is another matter entirely.
Online, those who scream the loudest drown out the others. When people get tired of all the screaming, they withdraw. And when the atmosphere makes people feel unwelcome, they leave.

I do not mind sub-ohm vapers or sub-ohm vaping. Why should I? At our lovely monthly vape meet (not the one with the jerk ) all kinds of vapers sit at the same table and talk amicably. And yes, new vapers are welcome. We have everything at our table, from Evods to 50 (and more) watt box mods with sub-ohm atomizers.

I fully agree:

I think the vaping world is big enough for us all

It is those loud cloud blowers who do not agree. They are the ones who are taking over, crowding out the others. At least online. In real life, the Evod type vapers are in the large majority. It just looks different online. And well, my "home base" is online. .. Was online.

It makes me sad to see a long(er) time vaper feel trampled on. For that I am sorry.

Thank you, dear

I have had my day. And I have had my good times, when more people were like me.
My vaping needs are covered. For the next xxx years (which is a good idea in Europe, with all that political crap coming up).

Time to pass on the torch to the new generation. There are some. Some good ones.
And frankly, I personally could not care less what happens to those others.

--------------------------
Hm... maybe it was not such a good idea to come in to ECF and say "Hi".
This is what has become of the cheerful, upbeat Anja. Ah well, times change. And people change with them.

We had some good times here, together. And I thank you, dears.

edit:

I liked it a lot better when we were all here to help people stop smoking.
That's all I'm going to say about that.

I hear you. Loud and clear.

 

[Robino1]

LOL. give the software time to post. If it seems like it is taking a long time, let it sit and spin for a bit. Forum must be suffering a glitch at the moment.

 

[AndriaD]

Hi dears,
just checking in to say "Hi".

I have not been on ECF forever, did not feel like bothering with recouping my password after the forum change. I do not have much to say. Business as usual, hanging in limbo here in Europe, at the moment.

But today I met a lovely lady from the US, on Facebook, who was looking for some nice vaping gear for her mother (mom is a smoker who would like some nice looking vaping gear, if she is to vape at all). So I just HAD to get into ECF again to find that lovely thread "show us your girly, decorated, pink.." etc vaping gear. And, of course, the molehill mountain drip tips. The ones that I fell so in love with that I ordered two for my pleasure, all the way from the States

So, just checking in, to say "Hi"

Hey Anja! missed ya!!!

Andria

 

[edyle]

Hi dears,
just checking in to say "Hi".

I have not been on ECF forever, did not feel like bothering with recouping my password after the forum change. I do not have much to say. Business as usual, hanging in limbo here in Europe, at the moment.

But today I met a lovely lady from the US, on Facebook, who was looking for some nice vaping gear for her mother (mom is a smoker who would like some nice looking vaping gear, if she is to vape at all). So I just HAD to get into ECF again to find that lovely thread "show us your girly, decorated, pink.." etc vaping gear. And, of course, the molehill mountain drip tips. The ones that I fell so in love with that I ordered two for my pleasure, all the way from the States

So, just checking in, to say "Hi"

Hey!
Missed your smiley face

 

[caramel]

good one!

Well worth reading.

Really? All I see is someone calling idiots those that don't agree with his own pov.

 

[Steamix]

Anything new runs a fair chance of getting hijacked by oneupmanship - vaping is no exception.
It's the equivalent of jingling with the Ferrari key at the local nightclub to impress the gals...
If you need a snazzy car or huge clouds to hide what little is left your ego - you have my sympathies

I'm fine with my ratty iclear16's and single coil Evods on a 900mAh battery - and the nicest chica in the joint, cuz she can see ME behind these gentle whisps of vapour


Anyway, great find, Anja.

But I think we'll win this by sheer momentum. Vaping started as a trickle.
If fasttech order numbers are consecutive ( and they do appear to be ), it's a torrent now.

 

[Jode]

Congratulations! Well done!
It was 35 years for me, and also 2 PAD in the end. That is why I switched to e-cigs. Smoking too much was not doing me good.



Thank you, dear.
I am not talking about the shops, though. In Germany, offline shops are not as prevalent as they are in the US. Some more are opening now in my part of the country, but most of us German vapers buy online.

So our "home base" for vaping communication is online. Our home forum, some Facebook groups, some Twitter at times. My only offline vaping communication is our monthly regional vape meet (very nice!), our yearly Germany-wide vape meet (coming up in July, very much looking forward to it!) and the annual visit to the vape fair in October. Ok, and some communication, of course, with my real life vaping friends (some of whom are - now - former smokers who saw me vaping and followed suit )

And there you have the root of the problem:
Most of the communication in our vaping community takes place online.
And I do not have to tell you how rude, overbearing and obnoxious certain people can be online. From the safety of their own living rooms. While they would never dare to bleat their nonsense into a person's face in real life.

- In all my vaping life, I have had exactly one serious altercation in real life with some complete jerk vaper. And that was a guy who had the gall to use a vape meet (!) as a welcome opportunity for spreading fearmongering lies about the alleged oh-so-horrible dangers of vaping with plastic tanks (stuff and nonsense, completely unfounded, invented by some guy who studied a few terms of chemistry, did not pass the exam and now works as a plumber). This jerk loudly claimed that vaping with plastic tanks can be more dangerous than smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day. Because an alleged "chemistry professor" (the plumber) had said so on Youtube. Duh... The ensuing "conversation" between that jerk and myself was not pretty. I do not appreciate being mistaken for a complete idiot. And I do not appreciate having people spread anti-vaping propaganda at a vape meet. While blowing big huge clouds across the table with their metal tank, of course. -
(And no, he did not talk about menthol. Which can damage plastic tanks, when used in strong concentrations. The menthol thing is common knowledge. And when a tank goes cloudy / cracks, you throw it out and use a new one. And /or use glass tanks for such liquids. Simple. And no fearmongering necessary).

That was one incident in real life. But online is another matter entirely.
Online, those who scream the loudest drown out the others. When people get tired of all the screaming, they withdraw. And when the atmosphere makes people feel unwelcome, they leave.

I do not mind sub-ohm vapers or sub-ohm vaping. Why should I? At our lovely monthly vape meet (not the one with the jerk ) all kinds of vapers sit at the same table and talk amicably. And yes, new vapers are welcome. We have everything at our table, from Evods to 50 (and more) watt box mods with sub-ohm atomizers.

I fully agree:


It is those loud cloud blowers who do not agree. They are the ones who are taking over, crowding out the others. At least online. In real life, the Evod type vapers are in the large majority. It just looks different online. And well, my "home base" is online. .. Was online.



Thank you, dear

I have had my day. And I have had my good times, when more people were like me.
My vaping needs are covered. For the next xxx years (which is a good idea in Europe, with all that political crap coming up).

Time to pass on the torch to the new generation. There are some. Some good ones.
And frankly, I personally could not care less what happens to those others.

--------------------------
Hm... maybe it was not such a good idea to come in to ECF and say "Hi".
This is what has become of the cheerful, upbeat Anja. Ah well, times change. And people change with them.

We had some good times here, together. And I thank you, dears.

edit:


I hear you. Loud and clear.

I completely see your point. I was misunderstanding that you were referring to online communications so yes, I hear you very clearly. People think that they can spout all sorts of cruel nonsense because they are guarded by a screen and they never take a moment to think about how it may effect another. Well, here is one poster that has undying gratification to all that came before me. I thank you and wish you well. Please do not regret coming here to say hello to friends ad share a very important letter. I was so pleased to have a conversation with you and learn some things about how it is being done in Germany. Thank you!!!

 

[Maytwin]

Hey Anja - still miss you round these parts !

 

[ykalon]

Return of the dragon! We miss you around here

 

[Anjaffm]

Wooohoooo! So many lovely postings!
Say, dears, do you have an automatic "Anja-postings-finding" radar? Thank you so much for your kind words!

Anything new runs a fair chance of getting hijacked by oneupmanship - vaping is no exception.
It's the equivalent of jingling with the Ferrari key at the local nightclub to impress the gals...
If you need a snazzy car or huge clouds to hide what little is left your ego - you have my sympathies

I'm fine with my ratty iclear16's and single coil Evods on a 900mAh battery - and the nicest chica in the joint, cuz she can see ME behind these gentle whisps of vapour


Anyway, great find, Anja.

But I think we'll win this by sheer momentum. Vaping started as a trickle.
If fasttech order numbers are consecutive ( and they do appear to be ), it's a torrent now.

Amen!
I hear ya, loud and clear!
I have never followed fashion, run after trends, raced to keep up with the "in-crowd". And I will most certainly not start such activities at 54 years of age. What for? For bragging rights? Nawww... not important to me. Never has been.

And yes, with regard to vaping, the ANTZ cannot stuff the genie back into the bottle. Their loss

I completely see your point. I was misunderstanding that you were referring to online communications so yes, I hear you very clearly. People think that they can spout all sorts of cruel nonsense because they are guarded by a screen and they never take a moment to think about how it may effect another. Well, here is one poster that has undying gratification to all that came before me. I thank you and wish you well. Please do not regret coming here to say hello to friends ad share a very important letter. I was so pleased to have a conversation with you and learn some things about how it is being done in Germany. Thank you!!!

Thank you very much, dear!
The vaping community did so much for me when I first started out that I am / was more than happy to pay it forward, by helping new vapers. I learned so much from so many lovely and knowledgeable vapers that I felt a strong need to pass it on, to help others, to educate them. And I am happy to see that it has paid off.

I am very glad to see newer vapers carrying on the torch. Thank you!

 

[navigator2011]

I liked it a lot better when we were all here to help people stop smoking.

This right here is top post for 2015!!!