Analog to Vaper Nicotine level question.

[Lemonaid]

Hello,
I know this is a very subjective topic.
I have been reading many post here but would really appreciate input from former smokers on appropriate nicotine levels.
I am actually doing the leg work for my boyfriend who was the smoker switching to e-cigs
He isn't all that technical so I'm locating ordering and maintaining the gear and the juices.

My question is about nicotine levels. I started him with a 18mg disposable which he felt was ok but not nearly enough punch.
I quickly set up a clearomizer and battery with 24mg pipe flavor e-juice. he loves the flavor but he still feels it's not enough nicotine and says he is feeling the withdraws.

I see there is 48 mg available but that seems so very high and 36mg, I'm just not sure.

I've considered ordering the 48mg and mixing it equal with the 24mg he has on hand to make a 36mg and see if that suffices. this would allow me to go up or down from there my mixing magic.

I will note, and this gets to my actual question, he is accustomed to smoking at least half pack or more a day of the swisher sweets the cigarette sized which I understand have more nicotine that standard cigarettes, and unlike 'cigar smokers' who I'm informed don't inhale as deeply, he does. He draws on the swisher sweets the way most people draw on a joint so.. given that... any suggestions of nicotine levels?? Thanks in advance.

 

[JeremyR]

Inhalation technique plays a large role in delivery, these need to be smoked like cigar..hold in mouth longer and short inhale with exhale through nose maximizes delivery of nic. 36 should be enough. Direct inhaling minimizes nic absorption!

There is a thread on inhaling.

 

[TBPlayer2112]

Here's the thread that JeremyR was talking about:http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/337017-inhalation-technique-e-cigarette.html
Vaping really is a lot different from smoking. I was a PAD full flavored cigarette user. I started with 18mg with some 24mg juice for when I got a really strong craving. Now I'm just using 18mg.

 

[Rock0900]

This sounds so weird to me. I used to smoke 30 a day.
I started vaping with 12 mg/ml and easily switched down to 6. no cravings at all anymore. I can't imagine vaping 18mg/ml juice or stronger.
I do suck in about 3-5 ml a day though, inhale steady keep the vape in longer and exhale slow.

Maybe you could also elaborate on the gear he's using, as I can tell the switch is much easier with good vaping gear.

 

[user808a]

Vaporizers only replace the nicotine without replacing the other chemicals in cigs. I have heard that the ammonia in cigs freebases the nicotine so it has more of a punch to it. When I made the switch it wasn't too hard but I felt there was something missing. It took 2-5 days for me to get used to the change.

 

[akatina]

This sounds so weird to me. I used to smoke 30 a day.
I started vaping with 12 mg/ml and easily switched down to 6. no cravings at all anymore. I can't imagine vaping 18mg/ml juice or stronger.
I do suck in about 3-5 ml a day though, inhale steady keep the vape in longer and exhale slow.

Maybe you could also elaborate on the gear he's using, as I can tell the switch is much easier with good vaping gear.

In contrast, I used to smoke 20 ultra lights a day. I'm on an average of 14mg juice, but I only go through about 1ml a day so my overall nic intake is similar to (or lower than) yours.

From my experience and what I've read here, smokers are used to a big rush of nic all at once that tapers down. Once it gets low enough they want another smoke. Vapers can go this route, or instead chose a lower nic level but chain vape to keep their blood nic levels constant.

OP, if your boyfriend doesn't get the hit he needs from 18mg, try 24 or 36. If it satisfies his cravings now without causing adverse effects he may go back to 18 sooner than you think.

 

[Faylool]

I've chew the strong Nicorette for 10 years so I'm very comfortable in recommending 36 nic. It's what I prefer, I vape less continuously with that but when I'm in a chain vaping mood I switch to 30 (DIY) and 24. Depending on how you deal with the vaper like has been just said, you can achieve getting more or less. I like not to think about if I'm vaping too fast and all that. I know I'm getting too much because of nausea. I've never gotten a headache but everybody is different. Ecf venders represented here are not allowed to sell more than 24 mg. it's to gain more acceptance for vaping from the general busybodies who have an opinion about what other people are doing with their body. The body speaks and there is nothing so extremely high about 36. I've heard of a couple people who do 48. Njoy disposable has a bold almost that high. It's definitely not for chain vaping. Does this help?

 

[Ken62]

I smoked 1 1/2 packs of full flavor menthol and vape between 28 and 32mg nic content. I'm OK with 24, but not in the morning when I need a jump start. I tried 18 today and felt like I might kill someone so I went back to my 32 cinnamon - whew...

I've been off of tobacco for 1 month yesterday

 

[DaveP]

24mg juice is my level and I used to smoke 2 packs a day of ultra lights.

Dekang DK-TAB is a favorite among those who like throat hit and taste. French Pipe flavors are usually too strong to me. Mixes with higher PG deliver more throat hit and VG added to the juice increases the amount of vapor. 80pg/20vg is good for me.

The tests I've read say that vapers get somewhere between 10% and 30% of the nicotine that a cigarette delivered. We all comment on how we use our ecigs as pacifiers. When the urge hits, vape again. We all vape like fiends to keep the nicotine flowing. You can't vape like you smoked. We use to go out to the break area and smoke one or two cigarettes followed by a wait. Vapers vape constantly.

 

[Lemonaid]

Very cool thank you

 

[Lemonaid]

Thank you, the insiges have been very helpful. I think he is in that category of wanting the heavy hit, then time in between. I've noticed he goes through about 1- 1.5 ml a day of 24mg and 1 disposable 18mg. I'll read him the inhalation technique- maybe that will help. He's using a 1.8 Clearomizer and a standard battery unit with reg 3.3 output. He has other health problems like dizziness from a neck and spinal injury so it's really hard to tell if something is from the nicotine or just how he is normally..which is why I'm very cautious. I think some of the nicotine use is his desire for pain relief. (His Dr's have not been willing to prescribe any pain med's) and some of it because he simply likes smoking..

 

[Rock0900]

Gl on this. I'd like to also add that if I myself pause vaping till I get nicotine cravings, it takes a lot longer to fix it by vaping than when I smoke a cig. So I'd advise to chain vape more.

 

[JeremyR]

How's it going.. To add ... the device makes a big difference too. If he's not getting large clouds a diff device may be in order. When I went from stardust to kanger t3 on unregulated 650 I had to cut my nic back because I was getting such big hits. I was almost doubling my intake.. T2 or novas put out more it seems than ce 4 style. Even cartomizers are bigger producers.

 

[Dime1219]

I smoked a pack a day and started vaping a 25 mg and go through 2.5 ml a day. It was different for a couple of days but perfer vaping now. He might puff more now then he did before fo a while.

 

[rolygate]

........ Ecf venders represented here are not allowed to sell more than 24 mg. it's to gain more acceptance for vaping from the general busybodies who have an opinion about what other people are doing with their body. .........

Minor correction

We allow a max strength of 36mg to be advertised here on ECF, vendors can sell what they like on their sites, for retail strengths (but not pure nic as the risk is too high for people who don't realise that it's as dangerous as opening a bottle of cyanide in their house, it needs a fume cupboard).

At some point we might move up to a max strength of 45mg allowed to be advertised on ECF, because there is now a body of clinical trials that show this is required for some persons in some circumstances. One vendor is about to get a pharmaceutical license for this and has produced evidence that it is safe, for use as directed. In other words if you need to go higher, then that's OK. Probably best not to start right at the top end, though.

As stated, registered vendors can do what they like on their sites apart from selling pure nic.

Note that there is a demonstrated difference in nicotine tolerance between individuals of a factor of 10 (shown first here on ECF), and it has no relationship at all to what a person smoked previously. In other words a few find 6mg the most they can handle, and in contrast a very small number of people cannot succeed with less than 60mg strength (and get no symptoms of nic OD at all). This is absolutely not recommended for anyone except experienced vapers. Actually it would probably be better to trial WTA liquid before going to such a strength.

There is a typical bell curve graph of nic strengths that people need, especially at the start: most are around 18mg. It doesn't matter if you need to go higher, if there are no indications of over-consumption - it just means you need more. It probably isn't a bad idea to reduce a bit over time; many do.

As the OP says, mixing low + high will get you somewhere in the middle, as required. Also you can use a lower strength at night, before bed, that way. Some need to go low in order to sleep better.

 

[Disconnect]

FYI here is my . Stuck it in a blog post since it keeps coming up

(The 3mg experiment I mentioned didn't pan out, btw, but I still use 6mg steadily. Including most mornings!)

 

[nosaint]

Personally, I think there are more addictive chemicals in analogs than just nicotine. Nicotine may be the primary, but there's more going on. It took me a couple of days for vaping to be enough. Giving up that one cig a day after my bourbon was tough, but that's probably a mental addication as much as any thing else. I did find that as I cut the nicotine, I needed to increase the flavor. I went from 12 mg with 10% menthol to 5 mg with 18-20% menthol. I have read on this forum, that menthol, even for those who never smoked menthol, helps provide the throat hit that people want.

 

[Disconnect]

There is a lot of other stuff in cigs. Some of it is designed specifically to increase the speed you take in nicotine and the amount of rush you get from it (ammonia, for example.) Its hard to replace all that without using the same/similar additives..

That said, a lot of people who just couldn't make vaping work have had luck with WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) juices. More of the chemicals (alkaloids) from the tobacco are left in with the nicotine.

 

[CrossXFire]

I dont think i agree.

How does it not passing in and out of your lungs amplify the amount in the blood stream? you might pick up more flavors on retrohale but i doubt your getting more of the nic.

 

[markfm]

1/2 pack a day of sweets might be equivalent to a multi-pack cigarette smoker, if someone is really inhaling them.

If it was me, I'd definitely consider trying the 30 or 36 mg/ml eliquid. Some heavy smokers absolutely need to go "high test". I used to use a bit of 30 and 36 mg/ml at strong craving points, though normally used 24 mg/ml early on.

Any headaches, rapid pulse, etc., absolutely cut down on the nic, but for a hard craving point, heavy smoker, the 30 - 36 mg/ml might be needed to get over the hump.

The rest of this post is background on nic content. I'm not a doctor or a scientist, this is an accumulation of some items from various places.

The nic label specified for a cig, say 1 mg, or 20 mg/pack, is the nominal absorbed/metabolized nicotine.

The actual raw, source, nicotine in a typical cigarette is apparently around 8 - 10 mg, based on a couple places I've looked at, meaning the rated value of 1 mg absorbed typical is about 1/10 the starting nicotine.

Swisher Sweets apparently have order of magnitude 10 - 15X the source nicotine of a cigarette, due to their being larger than a normal cig and being made from primarily the higher-nicotine-content tobacco leaf (cigs are made from pretty much everything in the plant). How much of that is absorbed would depend on how a person inhales, but it might reasonably be multiples of what is absorbed from a cigarette. A person smoking 10 swisher sweets could easily be smoking the equivalent of up to a couple packs of standard cigs.

The nic level of eliquid is source, not metabolized. Best values I've seen, from work by JF Etter, indicate that we absorb somewhere around 1/5 - 1/6 of the nicotine. There's variability based on particular gear and experience, but this is the ballpark.

Rule of thumb is that a full strength PAD cig smoker might use 24 mg/ml, 3 ml/day, on a standard KR808 or Riva/eGo. An unfiltered smoker, or much higher than PAD smoker, might need higher strength.