Anger at ban on fake cigarettes at Nottingham Oddfellows Club, Leicester (UK)

[Bill Godshall]

Anger at ban on fake cigarettes at Nottingham Oddfellows Club, Leicester (UK)
Anger at ban on fake cigarettes at Nottingham Oddfellows club, Leicester | This is Leicestershire

Kudos to Ken Keatley for publicly blasting this stupid policy adopted by these Oddfellows.

"I could not believe it. No one could confuse what I am using with a real cigarette.

"I get a shot of nicotine but there are no fumes or smell.

"However, if I went outside where the smokers are, I would have to put up with a fog of cigarette smoke.

"I am not prepared to do that. I gave up the habit after smoking a pack a day. I don't want to breathe other people's smoke.

"So me and my friends will be going elsewhere.

"We used to go there every Saturday afternoon. That will mean the club will lose potentially thousands of pounds of takings over the year."

 

[DiNet]

Logic in his statements is just plain wrong. Being hypocrite is not the way to go.
Polite vaper is the way to go.

And yes it does give a "push" to smokers. Revive your memories, how many time did you lite cigarette because you saw somebody smoking near you.

I think this is bad publicity stunt, that's all.

 

[tommy2bad]

Sorry? how is his logic wrong? He doesn't smoke, if he goes outside he has to join the smokers and will be subjected to second hand smoke, No logical flaw their. And his claim that ecigs are sufficiently different depend on if he uses a look a like so as I see it the logical failure is on the clubs side.

 

[Vocalek]

Logic in his statements is just plain wrong. Being hypocrite is not the way to go.
Polite vaper is the way to go.

And yes it does give a "push" to smokers. Revive your memories, how many time did you lite cigarette because you saw somebody smoking near you.

I think this is bad publicity stunt, that's all.

In my opinion smelling smoke is a much more powerful trigger to light up than seeing something that looks like smoke. I don't know what winters are like in Israel, but in much of the United States during at least 2 months out of the year the weather is so cold that anyone who steps outside is exhaling something that looks a lot like smoke.

 

[DiNet]

So, he does not go outside at all? Point in logic is about being outside apartment at all times. There's no ban on smoking on the streets... 2nd hand smoking is there almost all the time... walking down for groceries, waiting for a bus, walk in a park even... it's everywhere.

If you don't like that you can't vape in that particular place you are welcome to leave or stop vaping. It's that simple... or should I now quit my job and go public about my employer asking me not to vape in office? Yes, it makes my coworkers want to light a cigarette. We discussed that, I understand and won't go into rage mode because of something that stupid.
And I'll definitely will not vape in restaurant if they wont allow that, and won't make a scene out of it.

a) You are not forced to go to that particular place.
b) Particular place is not obliged to do everything as you please.
c) You are obliged to follow rules of that particular place.

I wasn't smelling smoke before I stopped smoking. Now I smell it 15 meters away from me while walking down the street.
The wrong reactions at vapers are those described in "lade and the cop" thread, where cop made her poor out all liquid 'n stuff. I'm sure you know what thread I'm pointing to. That's the ones that need attention and fight, not this kind of behavior.

P.S. Winters in Israel are tropical rain style and cold for residents. 50C+ in summer vs 15C+ in winter makes me wear a coat and a hat and freeze like it's cold, snowy winter in Russia.
P.P.S. I've got poodle, OMG I can't bring it to restaurant... he's not hazardous to health, he's 3Kg dog... those .......s... kiiiiiill them with fiiiiiiiire. This is the wibe I get from this article and that guy.

 

[tommy2bad]

I think you misunderstand the situation, in the UK smoking is confined to smoking areas or on the street, when asked to go outside it usual means going to a smoking area. This will be a confined area filled with smokers and consequently filled with smoke.
Personally I don't mind going with the smokers but the idea that I should be forced to go into an area that I have been told isn't safe because I do something that upsets the sensibility of people is just plane wrong.

 

[Vocalek]

P.S. Winters in Israel are tropical rain style and cold for residents. 50C+ in summer vs 15C+ in winter makes me wear a coat and a hat and freeze like it's cold, snowy winter in Russia.

You missed my point. I wasn't complaining about having to go outside in the cold, although I do find it rather sadistic of some places to shut down the shelters that were built for the express purpose of protecting smokers from North Dakota winters. In N.D., temperatures are often well below zero degrees in winter.

North Dakota Weather: Temperatures Hit a Record-Breaking -44 Degrees in Bismarck.

North Dakota Weather: Temperatures Hit a Record-Breaking -44 Degrees in Bismarck - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

My point is that when it is very cold and anyone, smoker or non-smoker, steps outside, they exhale a visible vapor that resembles smoke. The saying here is, "You can see your breath." When I was a smoker, I never felt an urge to light up triggered by seeing someone's breath outside in cold weather.

On the other hand, I do feel resentful at being forced outside when the weather is nasty. When the ANTZ first started their anti-smoking crusade, the point was supposed to be protecting the health of bystanders by separating them from second-hand smoke. So the first anti-smoking laws called for a separate room to be set aside for smokers, and smoking was only permitted there.

Were they satisfied with this accommodation? Nope! The next step was for them to complain that occasionally a non-smoker might get a second's worth of exposure if they happened to walk by and a few wisps of smoke escaped when someone was entering or leaving the designated smoking room. They used that idea to justify closing down the designated smoking rooms and pushing smokers outside.

It just expanded from there so that now in many places in the U.S. smoking is prohibited outside in parks, parking lots, etc. In some places, smoking in your own car and/or your own home is prohibited. Then if the ANTZ decide to ignore the science and claim that vapor endangers the health of bystanders just as much as smoke does, they pass laws that prevent vaping everywhere smoking is prohibited, inside and out.

 

[DiNet]

Up to age 19 I was living in Latvia. Don't remember -41, but I do remember hitting -25 every winter and once -35.
No, "seeing breath outside" does not trigger effect. Seeing clouds of smoke inside bar/office/room does that.

The rest of your post goes totally off-topic and/or out of context so I'll just go ahead and ignore that part
But, I still don't believe this guy is doing right, or any good at all. Person that is not familiar with ecig can mistake it with cigarette (excluding here big ... mods of course). I didn't notice people are using ecigs, I just assumed they are smoking. Now, on some level, I'm kinda "looking" for vapers, caught one guy 2 days ago that rushed by me, he was using something like ecab/eroll. Saw older lady week ago shyly sucking on ego device.
I'll agree it's going to be much much harder not to see that guy on that table in bar is smoking anything else but ecig. That is if he's sitting faced to me... And I can clog room so much with my ecig and pg liquid for half a minute that it looks exactly like smoke, surely without smell but for anyone who'll see that will assume I'm smoking.

I'm not trying to make statement that it's fine to ban ecigs, tho didn't read any rage about FDA banning all and everything during hearing, I just can't agree that this kinda stuff is right at all. Democracy works both ways, you're entitled to choose where to spend your money and they are entitled to run their place as they please. I actually think that as less as possible attention to ecig industry will do only good, referencing government and their habits to ruin stuff
No, I don't want to be put on par with smokers. But I also won't support guys like him, or we'll have teachers vaping during classes in next year.


P.S. That's very promising about prohibiting smoking in parks. Only places outdoors prohibited for smoking in Israel are ones near dangerous materials, like gas stations. "Repressions" do help combat this habit, granted if person wants to, well helped me at least.
Forgot that israRail banned cigarettes from all their stations, and that's good they did so.

Edit: Forgot to point out that human psychology is a ...... You can't ignore it, you maybe vaped for too long and forgot your cravings or failures to stop due to your surroundings. I tried to quit dry, the worst part of it all was see somebody light a cig, or seeing somebody exhale smoke. It's much easier now when I vape. Actually I don't think I care at all when I see them. But back then, I could kill a pack at evening in the bar, I didn't needed to smell smoke, I couldn't even if I wanted to. It was enough to see somebody smoke to reach out for mine.
But I'm familiar with ecig and that is the difference here.

 

[tommy2bad]

It must be that people in Israel are a bit thick then, because most people here don't mistake vapor for smoke and if they do, once explained they say, 'OK then sorry to have bothered you' but then I live in Ireland, we are an easy going, avoid confrontation sort of people.
Your right, people are free to choose what they allow and not allow in their premises, just as people are free to complain publicly about that place if for no reason other than to let people know the score.

"So me and my friends will be going elsewhere.

"We used to go there every Saturday afternoon. That will mean the club will lose potentially thousands of pounds of takings over the year."

Which is exactly what this guy is doing. Fair play to him.

 

[patkin]

Irrational/illogical, and therefor dysfunctional, minds are as old as the historic human being. As smokers we've all seen how obsessive and controlling they are and how they rise to power due to their singular focus and dedication of their personal energies. That's not going to change and will, ultimately, affect vapers. The nanny state is quite dedicated whether that be smoking, vaping, or how you treat your pets. IE: The sheriffs office here will ticket you if you have a pet in your vehicle and the temperature exceeds 70 degrees. Of course it takes an obsessive, hysterical, mind to call them. Its hotter in the home they live in for pete's sake.

 

[DiNet]

I'm living in very small city located 10 minutes away from Tel Aviv.
I'm vaping at rail station while smokers are sitting outside and watch me through window. I see same faces every day, 2 of them have ordered starter kits after seeing me doing so well and "departing" from smoking area for a month. I haven't heard any complaints and station chief seen me vaping a lot of times without raising any issues.
But, I've been politely asked not to vape in offices (excluding my own) by my employer and coworkers, whom I know much better than those people outside rail station... Do I have a problem with that? Nope... It actually helps me to control consumption, otherwise I could be doing 10ml a day easy.
I've been asked not to smoke at class, by my classmates tho.
I've got a "No Go" in my favorite pizza place in city and restaurant.

we are an easy going, avoid confrontation sort of people.

And he is doing exactly the opposite here, or at least article and this discussion.
This is not fighting for vapers rights in any form. This is giving bad reputation and trying to get 15 min.
This is not the case when somebody is forced to throw out all juice by a cop. This is not the case when it is being banned from selling. This is not the case it being marketed as hazardous products instead of much better alternative to cigarette. And this is not trying to tax shizniz out of industry. And this is not attempt to educate other people that ecig is much less hazardous way to deliver nicotine than cigarette.

 

[rolygate]

Excellent arguments. Thread closed before bricks start being thrown