any one new to e-cigs must read this

[leaford]

some facts arrived at so far..

from a nicotone delivery point of view claims of one cart equaling twenty cigarettes are lies.. fact

OK, that's a fact. The pen style equals around 10 cigs or so, 901 minis 5 or so, and superminis are 2 to 3 or so.

these things are bing miss-sold.. they are not really suitable for a 20/30 a day person to replace their nicotine delivery system with.. fact

Opinion, not fact. "Suitability" is a judgement. I found them suitable for my carton a week habit.

to do the above both atomizer and battery will need regular replacing.. fact

That's a fact whether you are replacing a 1-2 pack a day habit, a 5 cigs a day habit, or are just using it for no-smoking zones. Whatever you usage is, your atomizer and batteries will eventually wear out and need replacing. But of course the more you use it the faster it will wear out.

the cost and availability of both liquid and spare parts play a large part in the viability of doing the above.. some sellers are in essence charging way too much for cheap chinese devices and the fluid thats needed to run them.. fact

That's actually two assertions. The first is a truism. The cost of anything is always a factor. The second is another opinion, and I think you would find a lot of disagreement on WHICH sellers are overcharging. Take Ruyan, for example. The highest priced brand, but they developed the original technology, and that costs. Everyone selling it cheaper is riding on their coat-tails, so is Ruyan really overcharging? That's a matter of opinion, not fact.

it is possible tho not easy to do the above (replace a 20/30) a day cigarette habit with e smoking.. it can also be done in a cost effective way fact

It is a fact that it is possible, many of us have done it. It is not a fact that it is not easy. It is easy for some, and not easy for others. That has more to do with the person than the device, although a good device certainly doesn't hurt. BUt, of course, anyone who finds it easy is a placebo smoker to you, aren't they?

i have no valid informartion on the needs of placebo smokers.. what they "imagine" is unfathomable to me.. fact

Since no one else mentioned "imagining" anything, this has to be a comment on the FACT that some people overdose on e-cig nicotine. Why you automatically assert that they are imagining it, I don't know. Pretty arrogant of you, but whatever. It's just an opinion, not a fact. Personally, I OD occasionally, and have to put it down for a while.

from now on i only deal in facts..

You must mean AFTER this thread, or else you have a very expansive definition of "fact."

 

[trog100]

basic things the for average joe to work with leaford.. u are certainly not an average joe now are u..

i think the average joe who dosnt buy every brand on the planet will have problems making these things work.. i have had problems.. i am pretty good at making things work.. i am reasonably sure these things are being miss-sold.. i bought one on the one cart equals twenty cigs lie.. i also bought one not knowing it was going to need replacing quite as often as it does..

i am also reasonably sure that most of the things i have said are basically true.. and will be useful to a newbie..

it a shame comment only comes from such a small group thow..

trog

 

[Kate]

"it a shame comment only comes from such a small group thow.."
You were complaining about too many different opinions not long ago.

 

[katink]

Well, if you genuinely want more people responding... ok...

some facts arrived at so far..

from a nicotone delivery point of view claims of one cart equaling twenty cigarettes are lies.. fact - agree

these things are bing miss-sold.. they are not really suitable for a 20/30 a day person to replace their nicotine delivery system with.. fact Non-fact: I was a 40-60 smoker; I am doing just fine replacing nicotine through just and only e-smoking. So only a Trog-fact, certainly not fact for all.

to do the above both atomizer and battery will need regular replacing.. fact Misleading without a definition what your 'regular' is. Knowing you and your facts: your regular counts in days. My regular counts in months (4 to 6 months usualy, if I am unlucky maybe occasionaly 2-3 months). A world of difference between your 'regular' and my 'regular' (and I am not an occasional smoker, I use 2 to 3 e-cigs during the whole day and every day)

the cost and availability of both liquid and spare parts play a large part in the viability of doing the above.. some sellers are in essence charging way too much for cheap chinese devices and the fluid thats needed to run them.. fact I'll just go with Leaford here.

it is possible tho not easy to do the above (replace a 20/30) a day cigarette habit with e smoking.. it can also be done in a cost effective way fact Non-fact, double. That 'it is not easy' is a Trog-fact; I find it pretty easy. And 'cost-effective way': again like 'regular': misleading. I know that your 'cost-effective' way is vastly, vastly different from my 'cost-effective way'. I also know that you have only your own way in mind when typing this...

i have no valid informartion on the needs of placebo smokers.. what they "imagine" is unfathomable to me.. fact I'm sure it is a fact, that you do not understand the 'imagination' of others, or their personal 'facts' for that matter - placebo-smokers or no. And of course, if anyone not on your highway is automatically put into the category 'placebo-smoker' you are being darn unrespectful on top of it...

from now on i only deal in facts.. Make that 'Trog-facts' please.

And let me end with a little observation all of my own... you do not give any place to the fact that people differ. On all fronts. Including physically - and these differences alone can lead to quite different needs, so also to quite different answers as to what is good, and an answer to the needs, for thát person. Example? Someone with emphysema will need a very light draw... so an e-cig without that trait is useless to that person. A person that has a lung-capacity to draw every e-cig out there right to pieces (and I do know one like that, where this literally does happen with everything tried...) needs a draw so hard as can't be found in any e-cig yet... so all others then this super-hard-draw are worthless e-cigs for this person, not in the least an answer to his needs or to his liking. That's just one tiny example. Of which hundreds could be given. So your 'stating facts', even if they would be true facts (sadly most of those are only true for you), is still of no importance as to 'being facts'... what counts, is that people find what they need... regardless of any 'facts' that do not count them into the picture of reaching those facts... Even if a set of 'true facts' would be found and stated... then there would still be a neccessary piece missing, and that's the piece of how to relate such facts to personal needs. The pair of them could be useful... but I'm not seeing that as a result of what you are wanting to establish.

 

[Kate]

Hi Katink, just out of interest, since you've successfully replaced such a heavy cigarette habit. Which device/s do you use regularly? What strength nicotine eliquid do you use?

 

[trog100]

i can only handle the physical or mechanic nictoine deliver side of the equation.. its all i ever attempt to work out.. the mental side is beyond me and most people i think..

why the witch doctor says get better and people do get better is unknown.. why the western doctor hands out a placebo pill and it works is also unknown..

i think i am basically correct in saying the "imagination" has something to do with it.. if u think its real.. it is real.. but some new spare parts aint gonna fix this one so i dont go there..

trog

 

[Kate]

Are you saying that you don't know how some people reduce or cut out nicotine when you can't?

 

[CaSHMeRe]

.. the mental side is beyond me and most people i think..

Trog,

First and foremost. From here on out, you need start start speaking FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY YOURSELF. Your facts are undoubtedly skewed, and your representation of esmokers is sad. I don't think you have ever been put in the position where you are free from nicotine and therefore, only care about the "mechanics" of smoking. The mechanics of smoking are both a physical want/need and a mental want/need. You can't fathom what I mean, so therefore, you decide to put down and criticize people that so call "Placebo Smoke"

Believe it or not, there are MANY so called "Placebo" smokers not only on this board, but the world. They want to be and feel free from the addiction and hold that nicotine has but still enjoy a pleasant past time.

Stop downing "Placebo" smokers. Whether they choose to smoke 36mg eLiquid, or liquid with zero nicotine in it, we are all still in the same boat ... and that's the enjoyment of esmoking.

Nicotine is an incredibly hard addiction to break, downing the people that have been able to overcome such an addiction is just downright disrespectful...

 

[trog100]

Are you saying that you don't know how some people reduce or cut out nicotine when you can't?

some people can stop.. some people do stop.. i dont think i can.. i know for a "fact" my eldest son who has spent a lifetime suffering from chronic schizophrenia cant..

i also know more about the power of the human mind than u do.. my task is to stop him killing himself quite so quickly by using the e smoking method..

to be honest i should not be wasting my time arguing with the likes of u..

i have a good reason to fear the power of the human mind.. and i have spent a good few years trying to fathom it out.. i also know there is no "reality" simply what one perceives as reality.. there is also no such thing as sanity.. simply fitting in with the accepted norm.. pretty much what i dont do here.. he he

when u have lived and had to cope with real madness.. rationality becomes very important.. i value my rationality.. i have to..

trog

ps.. i dont knock placebo smokers.. they seem not to like the term and find it offensive..

 

[Kate]

"i also know more about the power of the human mind than u do.."
Why do you say that Trog, you don't know me from Adam?

To be honest, I think you take yourself too seriously. Your generalisations are breaking down, it's not the end of the world, just rethink your position, you can only speak for yourself. Assuming you have the measure of everyone else is mental suicide.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

ps.. i dont knock placebo smokers.. they seem not to like the term and find it offensive..

then I completely don't understand you ... lol

i was just adding my $.02 cents. carry on

 

[Kate]

I still don't know what he means by placebo smokers, I thought that almost everyone who esmoked came from a smoking background and uses edevices to get off real cigs. That makes us all placebo smokers doesn't it?

 

[leaford]

some facts arrived at so far..

... fact

... fact

...fact

...fact

...fact

...from now on i only deal in facts..

trog

... i attempt to establish some facts we can all work with ...
trog

...i also know there is no "reality" simply what one perceives as reality...

I love irony. If there's no "reality," there're no FACTS.

 

[leaford]

i have no valid informartion on the needs of placebo smokers.. what they "imagine" is unfathomable to me.. fact
trog

...the mental side is beyond me and most people i think..
trog

i also know more about the power of the human mind than u do..

Also ironic.

ps.. i dont knock placebo smokers.. they seem not to like the term and find it offensive..

Many people here are offended by the dismissive attitude displayed by the term. As if using an e-cig to fill a psychological habit is somehow less important than using e-cigs to fill a nicotine addiction.

And by the fact that you seem to hold yourself to be the judge of whether someone is using it as a placebo. Frankly, I know I am not a placebo smoker. I need my nicotine. Yet you have called me one more than once.

 

[Kate]

Hey, maybe Trog is the only placebo smoker. The rest of us are esmokers, lol. We're a new breed, Trog is stuck with trying to replicate an old habit?

 

[trog100]

I still don't know what he means by placebo smokers, I thought that almost everyone who esmoked came from a smoking background and uses edevices to get off real cigs. That makes us all placebo smokers doesn't it?

there is a placebo affect in all this.. its the part that frightens me.. i can handle mechanics.. but i do not trust my own subjective judgment or memory.. if i dont think my e cig is working well i give it my sons and ask their opinion..

my entire e smoking experience is a collective three person experience.. in truth i think my rationality works against me.. i have spent my entire life attempted to not be affected by placebos..

i am immune to witch doctors.. fake pills.. and hypnotists.. it does have its downside thow.. he he..

over ten years ago i started coughing blood.. i thought i was dead.. lung tumour.. so did the medical profession.. so does everybody when a fifty year old life long heavy smoker coughs blood.. i never stopped smoking.. why bother the damage was done..

but nothing was found and the bleeding miraculously stopped.. i was given a second chance.. did i stop smoking.. nope.. i really am a nicotine addict..

it helps keep me "sane" and tolerate the totally none rational world i live in.. this aint how i want things to be.. but for me its how things are..

trog

 

[Jag1313]

Also ironic.



Many people here are offended by the dismissive attitude displayed by the term. As if using an e-cig to fill a psychological habit is somehow less important than using e-cigs to fill a nicotine addiction.

And by the fact that you seem to hold yourself to be the judge of whether someone is using it as a placebo. Frankly, I know I am not a placebo smoker. I need my nicotine. Yet you have called me one more than once.

I like your responses Leaford, excellent reasonings. Wonder where the placebo smokers ends and the nicotine vampire starts, 1mg nicotine per pound of body weight?
Nicotine addiction is just one part, another part is a learned behavior anchored in the brain, suck on the cigarette and some cool chemical reaction starts. In addition phychological and social habits are another part of the whole. Smoke addiction has a wider spectrum then just the nicotine.

 

[Kate]

I think one of the difficulties might be that you expect esmoking to be the same as smoking Trog. You did the maths and think you are getting short changed value and nicotine wise.

We're not even talking about the same things a lot of the time. It's kind of ironic (Leaford will like it) that you say you're addicted to nicotine and not smoking. You can get nicotine lots of ways but you choose esmoking, that means you are using esmoking as a placebo? You could get your nic elsewhere, save yourself (and us) the grief of your failed attempts to pretend you're smoking. How do you justify the placebo? Is that why you have a go at esmokers who are successful at changing their habits? They are not using a placebo like you, they are vaping, esmoking and many are very happy to be doing so.

You are not happy esmoking Trog. You tell us regularly how expensive it is, how it doesn't satisfy your want for nicotine and how you know better than anyone that it's all rubbish.

I just want to tell you to go shove it. You sometimes come out with useful stuff but more often you're just a grumpy old git. Do us all a favour and start back on the fags.

 

[trog100]

yep a grumpy old git.. but careful your sweet nature is dropping.. a certain vindictive spitefulness is showing thru..

but as i said before i have better things to do than play mind games with u and the children..

i will dole out the odd battery "fact" or whatever.. which was my intention when i made the mistake of posting again.. please do not play any more games i cant be doing with it..

this entire thread would be better deleted.. end of comment no more said from me here....

trog

 

[SmokingInTexas]

OK, I been reading this for a while now and I want to speak my mind too...

I could care less the category I fall into, or what names people use to refer to me. I'm personally happy for the information I gleen from the forum. However, I AM intelligently competent to weed out the "personal commentary" from the factual information. I also understand that much of what is posted here is just that, a single individuals experience.

I'm disappointed that someone (trog) would attempt to categorize people since we are all individuals. Also, just because one person has a certain "feeling" about something here doesn't mean that all others will have the same experiance or feel the same way. I appreciate the suggestions of others (on this forum), but don't take offense if I weigh my own factors before I make any decisions. And if I fail to agree with you, and that makes me a <insert insulting name here>, then so be it.

I will be honest though, Kate, I would respect anything you tell me more than what trog posts, which is a shame, because I'm sure trog has some valid input on these subjects, .... unfortunatly, he feels that those that don't share his opinions or follow his advise are idiots. Damn shame it is.

So, to sum up, thank you all who post information here, good....bad....opinions.....facts.....guesses. Let ME be the judge of what I choose to believe. And don't call me names....tears dilute my e-juice. LOL



Tex