Anyone really suprised that vaping is getting heavily regulated in many places?

[zoiDman]

Ive been vaping for a long time well before all these regulations etc.. have used a forum a couple of times to help with issues (wicking etc..) one look through any forum and their is so much obsession over vapes (people collecting, waiting for new mods, tanks etc, obsessing over flavours etc..) this if i didnt know better would make me agree about many regulations. The ridiculous size of vapes now a days and people chucking out huge clouds in public has not helped. The vaping public and the vape manufacturers really only have their selves to blame. Small old school vapes not to much health concern most likely, vaping at 100w plus on dual coils with strong flavours is a health concern and your stupid to think otherwise. I can easily see from some non vapers perspective why people thinks these devices should be banned and therefore why governments are pushed to regulate.

It is Easy in Life to sometimes draw a Nice Box around something with straight, Non-Overlapping lines, and then Point to it say'n there's the Problem.

And then to use Implied Finality that if we just didn't have that Box, things would all be Hunky Dory.

But this kind of Single Dimensional thinking can be/usually is Very Flawed. And gives one a Very Myopic view of the world around them.

In the USA, If Public Health was truly the goal of "all these regulations", wouldn't USA Policy makers be more aligned with the direction that UK Health is taking? Verses protecting Tax Revenues. Or allowing BT and BP to steer the narrative in quest of Profits. Or Elected Officials using e-Cigarettes as a Save the Children grandstand for political gain?

So if Public Health at the Population Level isn't the Primary Goal in the USA, of even some Tertiary Goal, doesn't your premise and that Neat Box around Cloud Chasers kinda Fall Apart?

And perhaps the Reason we are getting all the regulations is a bit More Involved than what a Single Box can include?

Just to Interject Some Amount of Balance to this Cloud vs. Tootle Blame Game thing.

The Worst, the Absolute Worst, Scene I ever saw was when a Mid-Age Women was asked to Stop Using her eGo/CE4 set-up inside a Restaurant.

She went on a Complete Tirade shouting that El Torito was Violating Her Rights and that they were Nazi's Hell Bent on the Destruction of Personal Freedoms.

It was kinda Comical at 1st. But Quickly Degrade into being Embarrassing (as a Vaper) and in a way Sad to see someone have a Complete Meltdown. And I'm sure left a Lasting Impression with Everyone within Earshot. And that was Everyone. Because she was in Full "I Can Vape Everywhere" Vocal Mode as they Escorted her out.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

Our crime was being too bold. We should have been less obtrusive, so as not to offend the sensibilities of the good citizens. We mistakenly saw ourselves as equals when in fact we were uppity riffraff refusing to bow and scrape and be appropriately contrite. It was only a matter of time before we would be put in our place.

Talk about a gut punch. They wouldn't want to ban vaping if we hadn't vaped so proudly? I reject that out of hand.

“Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.” ― H.L. Mencken

We're dealing with modern-day puritans who are irrational by nature and see sins in everything. They cannot be reasoned with. There is no middle ground with them. They cloak their condemnation in a disingenuous veil of concern for public health and safety; a veil which is revealed by its mutable nature in the light of facts. They will not be satisfied until vaping is banned completely.

The only mistake we have made is to conflate Puritans with normal society. Puritans are a minority good at blending in. Learn to recognize them and do not feel overwhelmed.

 

[englishmick]

Ive been vaping for a long time well before all these regulations etc.. have used a forum a couple of times to help with issues (wicking etc..) one look through any forum and their is so much obsession over vapes (people collecting, waiting for new mods, tanks etc, obsessing over flavours etc..) this if i didnt know better would make me agree about many regulations. The ridiculous size of vapes now a days and people chucking out huge clouds in public has not helped. The vaping public and the vape manufacturers really only have their selves to blame. Small old school vapes not to much health concern most likely, vaping at 100w plus on dual coils with strong flavours is a health concern and your stupid to think otherwise. I can easily see from some non vapers perspective why people thinks these devices should be banned and therefore why governments are pushed to regulate.

I won't comment on the health or big cloud stuff since other people have already done that.

A thought on what you said about vaping forums. This is a small subset of vapers, a lot of us are into it as a hobby. We just enjoy vaping, collecting, talking about it, and so forth. And we use all sorts of different gear. It's like a camera forum. Most photo takers just press the button on their phone, those aren't the folks you see on camera forums. They are also a resource for helpful advice as you said yourself. I don't see how the existence of a vaping forum would fill you with disgust and make you agree with regulations. That comes from you not from the forums.

 

[Pete M]

But if you sub ohm with a high VG liquid, you’ll make a decent amount of clouds imo. I’m not chasing clouds or anything, but my rigs put out a fair amount of vapor, which is why I use them at home. Someone like Rip Trippers blowing these huge dense clouds is not a great poster boy for vaping (or reviewing! lol)

It's true. I can make a bit of a fog indoors vaping with my MTL tanks on 13w, and though you wouldn't call them clouds in the 'bro cloudz' sense, it still lingers. It takes longer to disperse than cigarette smoke so even when I'm outdoors I try to be conscious of that

 

[MacTechVpr]

Our crime was being too bold. We should have been less obtrusive, so as not to offend the sensibilities of the good citizens. We mistakenly saw ourselves as equals when in fact we were uppity riffraff refusing to bow and scrape and be appropriately contrite. It was only a matter of time before we would be put in our place.

Talk about a gut punch. They wouldn't want to ban vaping if we hadn't vaped so proudly? I reject that out of hand.

“Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.” ― H.L. Mencken

We're dealing with modern-day puritans who are irrational by nature and see sins in everything. They cannot be reasoned with. There is no middle ground with them. They cloak their condemnation in a disingenuous veil of concern for public health and safety; a veil which is revealed by its mutable nature in the light of facts. They will not be satisfied until vaping is banned completely.

The only mistake we have made is to conflate Puritans with normal society. Puritans are a minority good at blending in. Learn to recognize them and do not feel overwhelmed.

We're dealing with something far more intimate than that I'm afraid…the primal animalistic urge to take what is others. Intimidation being a useful means to make sure that it's assured in future. When you can't earn it, steal it. So much easier when you can bully the holder into cowering submission and servitude. We as a species have gotten quite adept at it. And those who practice this are far from being Puritans.

So I'd agree, if we've made any mistake as a community it's been to acquiesce to the inevitability of this expanding phenomenon and all apologies for it.

Good luck.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

...if we've made any mistake as a community it's been to acquiesce to the inevitability of this expanding phenomenon and all apologies for it.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

 

[DaveP]

I had to sit in a tire store this morning for an hour and a half waiting for my vehicle. I'd go outside here and there and vape when the waiting room was full. When the waiting room started to empty out I'd just take a stealth hit, hold it for a few seconds, and blow some really thin vaper down my shirt. No one even looked up. They were focused on a magazine or the TV on the wall.

But, vaping at 8 watts in public is easy, especially when you are conscious of others nearby. At home I crank it up to 10 watts and live dangerously!

 

[jim_87]

In before thread lock down.

 

[Marper]

It's very frustrating, I don't vape mtl, I vape 70/30 dtl and I'm always having to check who's behind me ect, I think the aversion to vaping is actually more than smoking.
I agree that you should stealth vape especially if you are sub-ohming, personal space in our time has become an obsession so I cloud at home and only take my serpent mini out so as to not cause offence.

 

[Marper]

Banning vaping will only cause it to go underground, it's not hard to make your own juice, coils, mech mod, so where does this lead us, whatever the ban they cannot stop vaping, everything is easy to source, it's just nanny state politics in my opinion.

 

[Jebbn]

I had to sit in a tire store this morning for an hour and a half waiting for my vehicle. I'd go outside here and there and vape when the waiting room was full. When the waiting room started to empty out I'd just take a stealth hit, hold it for a few seconds, and blow some really thin vaper down my shirt. No one even looked up. They were focused on a magazine or the TV on the wall.

But, vaping at 8 watts in public is easy, especially when you are conscious of others nearby. At home I crank it up to 10 watts and live dangerously!

20w direct to lung, inhale 5secs, hold for about 35secs, exhale, a mere wisp, hold 5-10sec's longer, zilch vapour.

We went out for a meal in an area where smoking is strictly a no go. There was an outside area and I noticed a few people milling about and then a small cloud so I popped out to find out more about it.
Damn vapers defying "the man" ! After a quick greeting to all I discreetly whipped out my device and took a massive drag. I saw fear in the eyes of teh vaperz there, "dont blow our cover dude!". 40seconds later Im digging in for the next hit and theyre like "OMG! where did the first hit go? There waz no clowdz" Im like, "my dudes, chill, I learned this stuff as a teenage smoker on school grounds"

 

[CMD-Ky]

Regulation and the movement to regulate started long before big cloud gear was ever developed.
Regulation is not about big clouds or better health, but all about money losses, due to any vaping style.
Big pharma, government, big tobacco are losing money.

And then there are the ANTZ who simply enjoy telling other people what they can and can't do.

 

[dennism]

When I go out I take one or both of my nords, not stealth vaping, but not too offensive. When at home, mostly on the back porch, I use my fireluke mesh and my mesh pro, blow my clouds and offend no one. I try to be considerate of those around me when vaping in public. No smoking, no vaping is the rule I try to go with.

 

[RayofLight62]

I don't chuck clouds while walking in town, I use a Nautilus or a pod. But, saying that a large vape cloud is obnoxious - please no - petrol and diesel cars stuck in traffic while I walk along, - please no, it is a glycerine aerosol.

Let me add, we all pay a premium on cars for the catalytic converter, one of its purposes is making smoke invisible.

The large vape cloud is insouciant, yes I agree. In my youth people walked the street with a GF9595 on the shoulders - yes, that was the acoustical equivalent offence of the current visual and olfactory "offence" from a cloud chaser.

Good social norm missing, I would say, the vape is of little concern, the true problem is caused by some obtuse personalities.

Regarding all the limitation to vaping.

Vape is little understood by a majority of people, AND seems to provide some joy to the users: these make it the perfect subject for the witch hunt of the third millennium.

You don't understand it, therefore is dangerous. People rejoice vaping, therefore it must be a sin.

Got my point?

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Has more to do with the ' missing ' tobacco MSA money than clouds, inhale method or public perceptions, really anything mentioned in this thread.

 

[Horselady154]

Has more to do with the ' missing ' tobacco MSA money than clouds, inhale method or public perceptions, really anything mentioned in this thread.

Of course it does. But, in typical fashion, government tries to get public opinion behind them before they lower the axe.

 

[evan le'garde]

I'm beginning to think that vaping has metamorphosed into a fashion. Having said that though, i'm now thinking that smoking was a fashion to start with.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Um... No. Vaping at high temp in a MTL device produces by-product chemicals. You know, carcinogens? Vaping with wide open airflow, with big clouds, requires less flavor than a cigalike also... Plus, if your chucking a huge cloud, typically, inhalation is not part of the scenario... I think you are either sadly misinformed, or just a lonely troll.

Sent from my XT1765 using Tapatalk

E-cigarettes examined: Do they contain formaldehyde?

Just gonna leave this here, in case you're wondering where I get my high temp carcinogen info from... Troll.

Sent from my XT1765 using Tapatalk

This is a really funny follow up to their original study. They were excoriated by the scientific community for using bad science in 2015, and using incredibly high temps in claiming that e-cigs create formaldehyde at dangerous levels. They even reference the problems in the introduction to this "study." This article states that their follow up shows formaldehyde generation is even worse than they originally thought.

So what do they use to prove it in their 2019 update? Why, as we all know, these are the most popular, best hitting, best wicking, most efficient atties available in 2019. The CE4:

Then, how hard do they hit these state of the art vapes?
A Single Cigarette Smoking Machine (SCSM-STEP, CH Technologies), was calibrated to a puffing regimen of 60 mL puff volume, 4 s puff duration and a 30 s inter-puff interval. Aerosol was generated using a CE4 top coil atomizer (Central Vapors) with an Innokin iTaste VV V3.0 variable voltage battery. Two new CE4 atomizers were used at 4.0 V. The atomizer was weighed before and after vaping to determine the e-liquid consumed per experiment (Table S1, Supporting Information). Aerosol generated from 50 puffs was collected...

Wow - so hitting these ancient clearos 50 times in succession, with only 30 seconds between each puff didn't reach high temps? I may be an outlier, but I take around 200 hits a day, or one per 5 minutes - not 2 per minute. The aldehydes they measured might well have come from melting plastic.

And funny, their follow up study didn't address temperatures at all. Or even the nic, pg/vg ratio of the Halo juice used.

I ain't saying vaping is good for you, but damn....You gotta love real science with an agenda!

 

[ppeeble]

1) Vaping would be frowned upon by Government regardless of vapor volume. Money.
2) Vaping more liquid is worse for your health than vaping less liquid. Logic.
3) Idiocy & ignorance is rife and, indeed, appears to be fashionable. Media.

I seem to be in the minority on ECF but i come across a lot of vapers who are happy to fill a (public) room with their stink. All of the pubs i frequent which allow(ed) vaping have the ignorant, selfish vaper who thinks it's ok to fog up the whole room. These people are the cause of vaping being banned daily in more and more places. I detest them and their pig-ignorant 'it's my right' attitude. It's also the right of the proprietor to stop all vaping because of the selfish few.
And it always smells of sweetener, just sweetener

 

[Pete M]

This is a really funny follow up to their original study. They were excoriated by the scientific community for using bad science in 2015, and using incredibly high temps in claiming that e-cigs create formaldehyde at dangerous levels. They even reference the problems in the introduction to this "study." This article states that their follow up shows formaldehyde generation is even worse than they originally thought.

So what do they use to prove it in their 2019 update? Why, as we all know, these are the most popular, best hitting, best wicking, most efficient atties available in 2019. The CE4:
View attachment 823891
Then, how hard do they hit these state of the art vapes?
A Single Cigarette Smoking Machine (SCSM-STEP, CH Technologies), was calibrated to a puffing regimen of 60 mL puff volume, 4 s puff duration and a 30 s inter-puff interval. Aerosol was generated using a CE4 top coil atomizer (Central Vapors) with an Innokin iTaste VV V3.0 variable voltage battery. Two new CE4 atomizers were used at 4.0 V. The atomizer was weighed before and after vaping to determine the e-liquid consumed per experiment (Table S1, Supporting Information). Aerosol generated from 50 puffs was collected...

Wow - so hitting these ancient clearos 50 times in succession, with only 30 seconds between each puff didn't reach high temps? I may be an outlier, but I take around 200 hits a day, or one per 5 minutes - not 2 per minute. The aldehydes they measured might well have come from melting plastic.

And funny, their follow up study didn't address temperatures at all. Or even the nic, pg/vg ratio of the Halo juice used.

I ain't saying vaping is good for you, but damn....You gotta love real science with an agenda!

Now that is hilarious! Can you even get those anymore without having to hunt for them?!?

You touch on another point though - your vaping style is entirely different to mine, in that rather than taking one hit, I have chain vape sessions. And I can guess with near certainty you use a different juice and different device(s). Though I'm guessing not a CE4. And that will be true of most people on this forum. This is what must make it hard to research properly.

Mind you since it's juul that's whipping up moral panic hither and thither why on earth aren't they just running a study on them?