AP: FDA Sending Warning Letters
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Very well said Cozz,
You expressed and clarified my opinion much better than I ever could have.
Keep it up.
Cozzicon: Far better that raising ire and agitation, you have impressed me greatly. Very well said, friend. I, as well as you, truly feel that regulation on e-juice is long overdue. I'm certainly not suggesting it should be put behind the counter, available only be prescription. I'm only saying that a certain standard of excellence must be met before any of us should feel comfortable inhaling this juice into our bodies. That standard hasn't even been set yet, let alone whether or not any juice might meet that standard.
(For clarification purposes: I'm not saying that any particular juice might be below that standard. But without there being a standard set, nobody can claim to have achieved that standard.)
(For clarification purposes: I'm not saying that any particular juice might be below that standard. But without there being a standard set, nobody can claim to have achieved that standard.)
Excellent commentary. Very well said. Thanks for taking the time to make and post that video.
it is a little funny the from what ive seen the largest opion of quality people demand is how good the flavor is or the vapor production etc. ive not read any reviews of any place stating ive seen lab like standards in the place i order my juice. just an observation
Fantastic. I think you are bang on with everything you said. There are three groups in the public -- Extremists/Alarmists, those who are indifferent/don't care, and those who are gathering the facts or haven't made up their minds yet. The latter is always the largest and always the focus. The other two groups, if listened to, are generally not taken seriously. I'd hate to see us fall into one of those categories.
I agree we should all be taking our time to go through any statement the FDA makes on this and every action they take. Taking issue with everything they say here will get us nowhere. You're right. They should be making sure that juice vendors and manufacturers are producing a clean product. But we can't "let" them blur the lines on smoking cessation VS nicotine cessation, drug delivery device definitions, or using customer testimonials as fact.
Hey Cool,
If you wanted the market to handle this, then consumers would need to demand the following:
1. Labeling of ingredients.
2. Standard "best practices" for ensuring purity of the product. (personally I'd be happy with assurances that PG/VG was USP, and that nicotine was pharmacological grade)
3. Batch samples for production integrity.
4. Some kind of standard for flavoring (non toxic?).
As those criteria stand, and I'll not mention the vendor, there is only one vendor I have found (thus far) that meets all those requirements- and they are non US. There are some American vendors that meet points 1, 2, and 4. Of course this is based on what I'm aware of. There may be examples I'm unaware of.
If you research a bit, Wikipedia has an article of the most common ingredients in e-juice. But that is industry wide.
The question is- would consumers demand the previously mentioned points?
I personally demand at least points 1, 2 , and 4 before I will do business with a vendor. That's me. I'm cool with letting the market work it out because I try and be an educated consumer. The question is- is the market working? No it isn't.
The Rath incident was an indication of the market not working. It could have been far worse.
So like I said in my vid... it's time for some regulation, and we have to be politically active to make sure the FDA actually is protecting us... and nothing else.
Thanks for the vid, Cozz...I believe you're pretty spot on. Yes, we as consumers need to do all we can to help; BUT, I believe we can demand all we want to, but until the vendors step up we're going nowhere.
I don't know if you get around to other forums or not, but a couple of months ago one of our vaping organizations made some suggestions to vendors along the very points that you make. And let me tell you, there was an uprising like you wouldn't believe! Some consumers and vendors alike threw an absolute s@#! fit. "Nobody was gonna tell them what to do." And mind you, these were only suggestions, and IMO they were very reasonable...labeling, testing, bottling, etc.
I don't know what our vendors' problems are (other than maybe "mine's bigger than your's!), but they absolutely MUST get it in gear. They've waited far too long as it is. Regulation is coming whether they like it or not.
If you haven't already, I suggest you all listen to the interview Kevin and JustJulie did on VapersPlace Sunday with Yvilla and Citesteamer...Links/VP-Live | VapersPlace One of our vendors called in during the program and said that the vendors are trying to work together to establish a trade association -- I say, "it's about damn time".
I don't know if you get around to other forums or not, but a couple of months ago one of our vaping organizations made some suggestions to vendors along the very points that you make. And let me tell you, there was an uprising like you wouldn't believe! Some consumers and vendors alike threw an absolute s@#! fit. "Nobody was gonna tell them what to do." And mind you, these were only suggestions, and IMO they were very reasonable...labeling, testing, bottling, etc.
I don't know what our vendors' problems are (other than maybe "mine's bigger than your's!), but they absolutely MUST get it in gear. They've waited far too long as it is. Regulation is coming whether they like it or not.
If you haven't already, I suggest you all listen to the interview Kevin and JustJulie did on VapersPlace Sunday with Yvilla and Citesteamer...Links/VP-Live | VapersPlace One of our vendors called in during the program and said that the vendors are trying to work together to establish a trade association -- I say, "it's about damn time".
Guess someone at the FDA did read the two email letters I sent them. And look who they forwarded them on to. 
Ms. Taylor,
Thank you for your e-mail below (dated September 10, 2010) and attached (dated September 12, 2010), addressed to our Ombudsman, Les Weinstein. Electronic cigarette inquiries are handled by the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research. They have been included on this e-mail for review and response.
Center for Tobacco Products/FDA
CTP Call Center: 1.877.CTP.1373 Tobacco
Ms. Taylor,
Thank you for your e-mail below (dated September 10, 2010) and attached (dated September 12, 2010), addressed to our Ombudsman, Les Weinstein. Electronic cigarette inquiries are handled by the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research. They have been included on this e-mail for review and response.
Center for Tobacco Products/FDA
CTP Call Center: 1.877.CTP.1373 Tobacco
Honestly, there's no time for more than one forum. My unofficial duties here (lol-snicker-I'm a putz) take more time than I should probably give them. But it seems rewarding enough.
Since PVs are a new industry- it's all "cowboy" out in the market now. A lot of vendors will shake out in the next two years. Some will consolidate.
I'll give the interview a listen for sure.
i remember reading all that when it happened. The issue was they where trying to tell everyone what to do, like your master kind of thing. Making threats and stuff As in Do this or we cut you off kind of thing.
Some of the requests where ......ed as well. For example. Vendors could not buy higher then 100mg nicotine to mix down.
Thats a WTF right there.
That was more so a collection of customers who wanted to control the vendors. That does not work.
Hence why a vendors association is important.
Some of the requests where ......ed as well. For example. Vendors could not buy higher then 100mg nicotine to mix down.
Thats a WTF right there.
That was more so a collection of customers who wanted to control the vendors. That does not work.
Hence why a vendors association is important.
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If you want the train to get there, you got to lay down some track!
Or theres going to be a train wreck.
Or theres going to be a train wreck.
Anybody that hasn't listened to this yet really needs to do so.
Special Edition 9/12/2010 - kevbow | Internet Radio | Blog Talk Radio
There is no better way to get the complete history of where we are now and how we got there.
It is 76 minutes long, and worth every minute of it, so plan ahead.
Special Edition 9/12/2010 - kevbow | Internet Radio | Blog Talk Radio
There is no better way to get the complete history of where we are now and how we got there.
It is 76 minutes long, and worth every minute of it, so plan ahead.
cozzicon, great video!
What was/is the Rath incident you are referring to? I would really like to know more about it. Links? O PM me if it would be more appropriate.
Thank you,
Karen
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reviews-suppliers/113272-truth-about-rath-juice-must-see.html
Basically, Rath had a gambling problem, was having his wife do mixes without her understanding much about what she was doing, and supplier were not getting their shipments. And none of us know what was in those final mixes.
Esmoke.net does list ingredients for each batch. Their "carton" of cartridges lists the batch number. Go to their website and all the information is there including ingredients. I am not a vendor nor do I sell anything so I am not promoting this N.J. company. There are some companies that do lab test their ingredients.
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