Applebee's was a no go...

[Pheisty]

Jen, thanks for your response. I apologize if I, too, got a little 'feisty'...but it's just my nature. And I'm passionate about personal liberty, in case you hadn't noticed. We can certainly agree to disagree and I really do appreciate your well-thought-out response. And I agree...let's get back on track.

(as a former restaurant owner in NYC and an Italian i had a sign that said "we proudly serve feisty hot headed Italian woman here.. would u like them on a bun to to go" )

Baaahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!

 

[kristin]

Woohoo, there's another libertarian in Wisconsin.

Make that three. Pheisty (and seabs), if you are on Facebook, I want to friend you!

Where are you guys in Wisconsin?? We need a big Wisconsin vape meet!

And for the record - vaping is NOT included in the Wisconsin smoking ban. We even tried to get them specifically excluded recently, but it was a no-go. I would recommend that any bar or bar/restaurant in Wisconsin that is seeing a decline in revenue since the ban should welcome vapers! CASAA even has a special "No Smoking/vaping Allowed" decal/sticker in our store for business owners and managers to post to prevent any false reports of "smoking" theCASAAstore I recommend vapers buy a pack and give them to their favorite establishments!

 

[Petrodus]

Make that three. Pheisty (and seabs), if you are on Facebook, I want to friend you!

Where are you guys in Wisconsin?? We need a big Wisconsin vape meet!

And for the record - vaping is NOT included in the Wisconsin smoking ban. We even tried to get them specifically excluded recently, but it was a no-go. I would recommend that any bar or bar/restaurant in Wisconsin that is seeing a decline in revenue since the ban should welcome vapers! CASAA even has a special "No Smoking/Vaping Allowed" decal/sticker in our store for business owners and managers to post to prevent any false reports of "smoking" theCASAAstore I recommend vapers buy a pack and give them to their favorite establishments!

What an EXCELLENT suggestion !!!!!

 

[Pheisty]

Make that three. Pheisty (and seabs), if you are on Facebook, I want to friend you!

Where are you guys in Wisconsin?? We need a big Wisconsin vape meet!

Hi Kristin! PM sent with my real name so we can be FB friends.

I live in NW Wisconsin near the Minnesota border. I'm actually only about 40 minutes from Minneapolis/St. Paul.

 

[kristin]

Hi Kristin! PM sent with my real name so we can be FB friends.

I live in NW Wisconsin near the Minnesota border. I'm actually only about 40 minutes from Minneapolis/St. Paul.

Pheisty - I think you have friend requests blocked or something - your page doesn't show the friend request button? My page is https://www.facebook.com/kristin.nollmarsh.1

Not surprisingly, I see we follow some of the same FB pages and groups, lol!

 

[saltydog]

I usually do ask permission BUT I also explain how an electronic cigarette works as well as pointing out that its just harmless water vapor.If that doesnt work I show them the letter from Ken Cuccinelli (Virginia Commonwealths Attorney) saying its okay to vape in restaurants in this state.

I'm sure that gets their attention lol.

 

[sailorman]

If I was sitting at the bar with friends I probably wouldn't have bothered to, either. I was in the restaurant area with my family surrounded by other families.

While we may feel like it's no different than chewing gum, we *are* putting a visible vapor out into the air and I don't believe that pretending we have more rights than everyone else sitting around is going to help the cause in the long run. Yes, it is absolutely "better" than cigarette smoke, by far, but it's still *there*.

What makes you think that putting vapor into the air (as opposed to smoke) is a right that everyone doesn't have? Until there's a law that says you don't have that right, it's everybody's right, not just ours.

If I was sipping a hot cup of coffee, I'd be putting vapor into the air. Is that not a right everyone else has? Should I feel like I have a special right that no one else has? After all, it's just *there*, just like vapor from my PV.

I don't ask for advance permission in a bar or restaurant. I don't vape something that looks like a cigarette, so if some ......ed person thinks I'm smoking, that is their problem. I take out my big old PV as soon as I'm seated. I set it on the table in full view of everyone. I vape on it before the waitress arrives with a menu. I vape on it, and blow the vapor toward my lap as soon as the waitperson arrives. If nothing contrary is said, I'm going to assume it's o.k. I've never been asked to stop, so far. If I am asked not to vape, I'll either attempt to explain what I'm doing or I will stop and get up and leave before I order anything. There is no way I'm going to put myself in a position of ordering and eating first, only to find out later that I've just patronized a vaper-hostile establishment. If I'm denied "permission" to vape, I'll let the management know exactly why I'm leaving, why I won't be back and why nobody over whom I have any influence will be there either. And I'll leave. And no tipping.

 

[sailorman]

My point is that we are putting a visible "something" out into the air. Now, *we* believe it's safe but is it really fair to make that decision for other people? They *chose* to inhale car exhaust on their way to the restaurant but do they want to take some stranger's word that the apparent "smoke" they see is safe?...

My public time is pretty much shopping and family time in restaurants so, no, I haven't bothered. If I went to bars or even out for dinner with just my husband I probably would.

Am I missing something or is there a contradiction here?
We make "that decision" for other people every time we start our cars, or light our fireplaces, or start or lawnmowers, or douse our lawns with pesticides, or do any number of other things that are provably more harmful to others than what comes out of a vaper's lungs. None of those others choose to inhale the results of our everyday activities. I don't choose to inhale the smog in my neighborhood, but do I get to demand that my neighbors bike to work? Should they ask my permission before they start their barbeque grill?
I know for a fact that vapor is safer than smoke or car exhaust or any number of other pollutants that everyone voluntarily exposes themselves to every single day. So they don't have to take some stranger's word that the "smoke" they see is safe. They simply have to learn the difference between smoke and vapor. They have no more right to assume that vapor is smoke than they do to assume that my pink hair is on fire, or my swimming pool is full of hydrochloric acid or that the vapor coming off my coffee is "smoke" because it looks like smoke. If they are concerned enough to ask, I'll be happy to explain the difference. If they choose to remain ignorant, that is their prerogative, but they don't have the right to demand that I modify my behavior to cater to their willful ignorance.

 

[sailorman]

I have to agree with Pheisty on this one. I think discrimination for any reason is stupid and pointless and would cause an incredible amount of resentment and anger in the person being discriminated against. But that's the price you pay for a free society. Of course we think the removal of some freedoms is ok for the right reasons until the day comes when we suddenly discover they're all gone.

Yep, and there are millions of South Africans that would surely agree with you. Many of them sure miss the good old days of Apartheid, when they had a "free society" and they were free to discriminate against, and associate with, whoever they wanted. I wonder what happened to the "free market's" ability to remedy that situation.

You're right though. There was an incredible amount of resentment and anger on the part of those discriminated against. I think though, that I'd prefer the legal remedies the U.S. finally adopted over the violence that ensued in S. Africa.

 

[Pheisty]

Oh, FFS...

 

[seabs]

Make that three. Pheisty (and seabs), if you are on Facebook, I want to friend you!

Where are you guys in Wisconsin?? We need a big Wisconsin vape meet!

Well sure, if you really want to be my friend. I just sent a request. And I am from Oshkosh.