APVs: is there really any difference?

[Baditude]

I have five APV's. Two mechanicals and three variable voltage ones. Each serves it own purpose depending upon the situation that I will be vaping.

I started out with the Silver Bullet and BB, both mechanical mods. At first I used both at home and out-and-about. But the Silver Bullet is significantly bigger and heavier than the BB, so eventually I carried the BB and an extra battery with me for outside the house. The Silver Bullet got most of the use at home.

Then I experienced variable voltage and saw how that would greatly improve my vaping experience. I could have put a Kick in my Silver Bullet, but to change the wattage with a Kick, you have to remove the battery and the Kick each time because the control is on the Kick. I change between flavors several times a day, so that would not work out well for me.

I got a Provari so that I could change the voltage on-the-fly. I was taking it with me everywhere, but it is a heavy PV like the Silver Bullet. I could have used the BB, but then I would miss the variable voltage option. I needed a small, lightweight VV PV.

I got the Smoktech VV Gripper. Love the form factor despite the wonky construction. It was serving as I desired until the front buttons fell into the body. Luckily it was within one week of the warranty expiring, so it has been replaced.

I wanted a more dependable out-and-about PV with the same form factor as the Gripper, and got the Segelei/Ovale V8. It appears to be a better constructed PV than the Gripper.

I just got my first rba, and the Silver Bullet has found new life since I have been using my AGA T+ on it.

So that is the evolution of my PV collection.

 

[Fury83]

I own a few. They are basically in three categories since I have given some away

Mechanical--I just like simple things made of metal. Have a kick and rarely use it. I probably use my two 14650 devices the most. They are a little smaller than a large ego and look a heck of a lot nicer.

VV or VW Zmax chip: A bunch of functionally the same but different looking mods with a distinctive pulse. Going to sell all but the SVD I have coming.

VV or VW, not zmax--Provari and evic, probably my two most used at the moment. evic has an 18350 tube so it's my go to mini VV/VW vape. Provari is a provaro, it's nice to look at, feels solid and delivers exactly what I ask it too.

I have an EA on the way and an SVD on the way. Rest of money has been on genesis atty's lately.

 

[wv2win]

Consistency and no hassle are my criteria. I'm a heavy vaper and want every inhale to be exactly the same as the previous one. The best way to get that is with a well made variable wattage PV. And "no-hassle" means I never have to carry extra batteries or worry about it dying on me. I only have two PV's and I'm not a collector.

My PV, under very heavy vaping conditions (used every 5 - 10 minutes), provides 18 - 24 hours on a charge (using dual coils) and every inhale is exactly the same from beginning to end. Thus, no hassle and great consistency.

I think there are only a few PV's that can do that. Oh, and it hasn't failed in two years. So thinking all APV's are about equal is not close to being accurate IMO.

 

[Unforeseen]

Moved to Variable Voltage APV Discussion

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

Well, alrighty then. That's exactly what I came here for, well one of the reasons - information. Thank you all for your education and input and stuff.

Sorry I tried to narrow the field too much. Basically what I was trying to get at was is there any difference between comparable models right out of the box set at the same voltage with the same atty? Apparently there is, although the car analogies were pretty terrible I have to say. Comparing a Yugo to a BMW? C'mon. That's almost as bad as comparing a cig-a-like to an APV. The analogy I would've used would be more like a truck comparison:

I need to tow a 10,000 lb load from New York to Miami. What's the difference between doing it with a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Nissan or Toyota? They'd all get the job done. Well, maybe not the Dodge. But which one will do it fastest or smoothest or in the most comfort? What might be the subtle differences between them? So I guess dependability should not have been eliminated from the competitive factors.

And just to clarify, I'm in no way knocking the collectors. If I had the income, I'd probably have a new device of some sort with every paycheck whether it be a new APV, RBA, DIY juice kit, or R2D2 robot. That'd be a pretty cool mod, huh?

Anyhoo, thank you all for your input. Hope to see more and keep learning from you guys and gals.

 

[kiwivap]

Apparently there is, although the car analogies were pretty terrible I have to say. Comparing a Yugo to a BMW? C'mon. That's almost as bad as comparing a cig-a-like to an APV. The analogy I would've used would be more like a truck comparison:

I think an APV compared to a cig size is more like a car compared to a motorcycle. And then there are different motorcycles too... You could argue that a Ducati is better than a Honda Civic - which is why car analogies are limited. Most analogies are.

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

I think an APV compared to a cig size is more like a car compared to a motorcycle. And then there are different motorcycles too... You could argue that a Ducati is better than a Honda Civic - which is why car analogies are limited. Most analogies are.

I could argue that a Ducati is better than a Honda Civic all day.

 

[kiwivap]

I could argue that a Ducati is better than a Honda Civic all day.

i wouldn't disagree, and yet.... Honda Civic does have a roof.

 

[UncleChuck]

I still maintain that the regulation used in the common 33.33hz chip has the potential to alter the vape quality depending on what topper is used. Nobody seems to agree with me on this, but I'm sticking to it. Compared to the flat output signal of the Provari, or just straight battery voltage, I think a PV with a jagged output signal WILL affect the vape.

Cartos have worked great for me with my 33.33 devices. Anything with a wick, be it a clearo or atty I can definitely tell the difference between flat vs pulsed voltage. That's why I have my dripping attys on my Bolt and use an 350mAh eGo as a backup dripper.

I have tried in vain to match the vape of a direct battery or flat output device. I had my Bolt with dripping atty, and my Zmax with dripping atty. Started the Zmax out at 3v, and went up .1v at a time. At lower voltages it was fine, then once I got around 3.4 and up, I started tasting off flavors. I switched the attys, same exact experience. I've tried this with my Vamo and the same thing happens.

This isn't coming from a Provari fanboy who is bashing cheaper devices. I don't own one and never will, not because I think it's a bad device or because it's expensive, but because I absolutely hate the user interface. I know the Zmax is the same way basically, and I own one, but the Zmax is how I found out I don't like a single button interface. I learned that lesson after $90 not $250.

I'm getting off track now, but my (evidently singular) experience and preference should show you how highly varied vapers are, and how varied their needs, wants, and demands are. Nobody else has the same list of demands for a mod that I do, and nobody else has the same demands you do. That's why I swear there are more mods on the market than there are vapers to buy them.

 

[D4rk50ul]

I think the entire point if comparing devices is the build quality and finish. Anything that has similar hardware and an 18650 will vape close to the same. You pay for quality, materials, CS, country of origin, and aesthetics.

Just because you can get an ego type to put out vapor close to a 3.7v premium device such as the precise doesn't mean they are equal in any way.

Some will always buy cheap knowing they will be replacing it and prefer that so they can just beat them to death. Myself and others may buy high end and plan on taking care of their devices and treat them as an investment.

Sent from my Nexus 4

 

[dam718]

I still maintain that the regulation used in the common 33.33hz chip has the potential to alter the vape quality depending on what topper is used. Nobody seems to agree with me on this, but I'm sticking to it. Compared to the flat output signal of the Provari, or just straight battery voltage, I think a PV with a jagged output signal WILL affect the vape.

Cartos have worked great for me with my 33.33 devices. Anything with a wick, be it a clearo or atty I can definitely tell the difference between flat vs pulsed voltage. That's why I have my dripping attys on my Bolt and use an 350mAh eGo as a backup dripper.

I have tried in vain to match the vape of a direct battery or flat output device. I had my Bolt with dripping atty, and my Zmax with dripping atty. Started the Zmax out at 3v, and went up .1v at a time. At lower voltages it was fine, then once I got around 3.4 and up, I started tasting off flavors. I switched the attys, same exact experience. I've tried this with my Vamo and the same thing happens.

This isn't coming from a Provari fanboy who is bashing cheaper devices. I don't own one and never will, not because I think it's a bad device or because it's expensive, but because I absolutely hate the user interface. I know the Zmax is the same way basically, and I own one, but the Zmax is how I found out I don't like a single button interface. I learned that lesson after $90 not $250.

I'm getting off track now, but my (evidently singular) experience and preference should show you how highly varied vapers are, and how varied their needs, wants, and demands are. Nobody else has the same list of demands for a mod that I do, and nobody else has the same demands you do. That's why I swear there are more mods on the market than there are vapers to buy them.

I agree with you that there is a difference in vape quality between 33.3Hz cycled 0-6V PWM and a steady voltage output. And I think you'd be surprised how many other folks would also agree with you here.

It's a subtle difference... A lot of people can't tell the difference. But I know I can, and I know there are others that can as well... Your experience may be different.

I try not to bring it up too much, cause it can cause some pretty heated debate... LoL

 

[UncleChuck]

I agree with you that there is a difference in vape quality between 33.3Hz cycled 0-6V PWM and a steady voltage output. And I think you'd be surprised how many other folks would also agree with you here.

I would be surprised, I made a thread about badly regulated mods and I don't think a single person agreed or even was open to the idea. I had several people tell me that my vamo and/or Zmax was not in RMS mode, which they were. They told me I have V1 models, I don't. Maybe I just didn't reach the right crowd!

It does make me feel a bit better knowing that I'm not alone. I kept trying to convince myself that I could not tell a difference, but as hard as I tried the difference was still there. I had no idea what the output signal was like on the Vamo or Zmax at first, so it's not a mental thing where I heard someone say there's a difference so I looked for it. I researched the difference because I could personally tell.

I just look at it this way, there's more than a few things that were taken as gospel in the vaping past that we know is bunk now, just think of what we'll figure out about our little hobby in a few more years. Maybe others will come around by then

 

[Susaz]

A Yugo would get me around but I like comfort and reliability. A Lavatube might work for a while but I like the quality of my ProVari. I also know some materials conduct electricity better than other...my brass and copper mods out perform my steel mechanical mods.

I would say yes, the PV/APV does make a difference.

That proves a point. Buy good quality, no matter the size. I notice the difference between my Kgo VV passthrough, the eGo Twist and the Spinner VV. I'll buy Joyetech only from now on...

 

[Susaz]

I would be surprised, I made a thread about badly regulated mods and I don't think a single person agreed or even was open to the idea. I had several people tell me that my vamo and/or Zmax was not in RMS mode, which they were. They told me I have V1 models, I don't. Maybe I just didn't reach the right crowd!

It does make me feel a bit better knowing that I'm not alone. I kept trying to convince myself that I could not tell a difference, but as hard as I tried the difference was still there. I had no idea what the output signal was like on the Vamo or Zmax at first, so it's not a mental thing where I heard someone say there's a difference so I looked for it. I researched the difference because I could personally tell.

I just look at it this way, there's more than a few things that were taken as gospel in the vaping past that we know is bunk now, just think of what we'll figure out about our little hobby in a few more years. Maybe others will come around by then

You can taste the difference between PWM and a steady DC signal. At your regular voltage, if you chain vape, you'll soon taste slightly burned. That's because the pulse makes the coils burn so much hotter it burns your juice. And your coil too. And, if the frequency is 33Hz it'll burn your coils too. That's why I stay away from most APV, except Kicked mechanical mods.

 

[fourthrok]

Since I moved pretty much away from the eGo types (including Twist and VV kGo) and have gone with the "mod" or APV replaceable battery devices...I do notice a difference.

Initially I started out with mechanicals and semi-mechanicals. First was the 3.7 Gripper semi-mech. It hits amazing. You can really feel the "power" and it seems to produce tons of vapor. I only use ONE juice, and it's my DIY...so the ratios and proportions are all the same on every device. Next I got a telescope. I thought it was fully mechanical from GV's descripton (got it at LF, however) but it turns out it's semi-mech. I liked the idea of something that would survive the Vapocalypse should one come in the future. I liked it, and liked it's looks. The vape seemed pretty much like the 3.7 Gripper. Next I decided to get a REAL fully mechanical so I got a LavaFire Rocket. Now THAT's mechanical and it has a copper body, too! It surely will outlive me! The vape continued to be pretty similar to the other devices...it's just very very heavy and a little hard on my arthritic hands. On a whim (and a sale) I got a Bolt. Very nice device..a semi...but I notice that vapes a little on the tepid side compared to the other mechanical and semi-mechs I had. Still like it..but then....

The tide turned. A friend gave me his VV Gripper because he was afraid he was going to break it and wanted a mechanical like the LF or Tec Mod. OH boy. Did I notice a difference? Oh. YEAH. It's got that PWM thing that some vapers don't like. Me? I was blown away. Loved it! It practically vapes itself...hardly any effort drawing on my part required. I also discovered that one of the things I loved about the 3.7 Gripper I liked so much was the shape. Easy on the hands. And suddenly..I was tired of tubes. So I got a couple of Ovale V8s (like Darkhood) and bought another VV Gripper (in silver). And they are ALL I use now. I did have to adjust my juice a bit from 7% flavor to 5% because the PWM hits much harder/warmer and I like a cooler vape. Couldn't do much VV because I couldn't go lower than 3v and was using 2ohm single coils. After adjusting my recipe a bit to accommodate and getting some 3ohms so I could play with the voltage a bit more...I'm really really liking these boxy mods with the PWM. A lot. They are lighter. The shape is comfortable for my arthritic hands. Love the PWM vapor punch. It's all just good for me I do realize that "durability" is extremely iffy with them...but for now, I'm very happy. And they don't cost much.

Still glad I have the mechanicals and semi-mechanicals. That Vapocalypse still looms. I like to have "insurance". But I got several of the Gripper/V8 things as "insurance" too. Never meant to end up with a collection. It's just the way my vaping evolution transpired.

 

[Susaz]

I think an APV compared to a cig size is more like a car compared to a motorcycle. And then there are different motorcycles too... You could argue that a Ducati is better than a Honda Civic - which is why car analogies are limited. Most analogies are.

Nope. Most people look down on eGos, thinking they're toys. The regulating chip on the Twist is equivalent to the Provari, state of the art. Watch this... A PBusardo Review - eGo Twist - OvaleUSA - YouTube

I watch Busardo's reviews all the time, because I want to be aware on how the electronics work. 3 650 Twist + PCC is 4000 mAh. Can your APV beat that?

 

[kiwivap]

I think an APV compared to a cig size is more like a car compared to a motorcycle. And then there are different motorcycles too... You could argue that a Ducati is better than a Honda Civic - which is why car analogies are limited. Most analogies are.

Nope. Most people look down on eGos, thinking they're toys. The regulating chip on the Twist is equivalent to the Provari, state of the art. Watch this... A PBusardo Review - eGo Twist - OvaleUSA - YouTube

I watch Busardo's reviews all the time, because I want to be aware on how the electronics work. 3 650 Twist + PCC is 4000 mAh. Can your APV beat that?

In my analogy - and again I'll say analogies are limited - the Ducati is the cig size, the Honda Civic is the APV - the point being that even cig sizes can differ - and you could argue that a particular cig size is more like a Ducati compared to a particular APV being like a Honda Civic. Some would disagree. I wasn't even thinking about Egos - which aren't cig size. I've never looked down on Egos - lots of people use them. I have ego sized X2s myself that I like. They are regulated at 3.7 volts.
I don't quite see the point about 3x 650 twist + portable charger = 4000 mah or why you'd want to know if my APV can beat that? It seems a bit redundant because battery life does not depend solely on mah. It depends on the resistance of the attachment and the volts as well. Carry three twists and a PCC if that's what you prefer, or carry two 2000 mah IMRs and an APV if that's what you prefer. What does it matter anyway? Each person uses what they want to use. That was the point I made initially and will continue to make.

 

[AnsonJames]

I still maintain that the regulation used in the common 33.33hz chip has the potential to alter the vape quality depending on what topper is used. Nobody seems to agree with me on this, but I'm sticking to it. Compared to the flat output signal of the Provari, or just straight battery voltage, I think a PV with a jagged output signal WILL affect the vape.

Cartos have worked great for me with my 33.33 devices. Anything with a wick, be it a clearo or atty I can definitely tell the difference between flat vs pulsed voltage. That's why I have my dripping attys on my Bolt and use an 350mAh eGo as a backup dripper.

I have tried in vain to match the vape of a direct battery or flat output device. I had my Bolt with dripping atty, and my Zmax with dripping atty. Started the Zmax out at 3v, and went up .1v at a time. At lower voltages it was fine, then once I got around 3.4 and up, I started tasting off flavors. I switched the attys, same exact experience. I've tried this with my Vamo and the same thing happens.

This isn't coming from a Provari fanboy who is bashing cheaper devices. I don't own one and never will, not because I think it's a bad device or because it's expensive, but because I absolutely hate the user interface. I know the Zmax is the same way basically, and I own one, but the Zmax is how I found out I don't like a single button interface. I learned that lesson after $90 not $250.

I'm getting off track now, but my (evidently singular) experience and preference should show you how highly varied vapers are, and how varied their needs, wants, and demands are. Nobody else has the same list of demands for a mod that I do, and nobody else has the same demands you do. That's why I swear there are more mods on the market than there are vapers to buy them.

I completely agree with you about mods that run at 33.3hz.

I was told by someone on another thread that there wasn't a difference between the output of a flat DC signal and a "rattlesnake" mod.
This is absolute rubbish in my opinion, flat DC vaping is massively different and infinitely better - don't care what the science says.

 

[patkin]

safety and accuracy

 

[AnsonJames]

I agree with you that there is a difference in vape quality between 33.3Hz cycled 0-6V PWM and a steady voltage output. And I think you'd be surprised how many other folks would also agree with you here.

It's a subtle difference... A lot of people can't tell the difference. But I know I can, and I know there are others that can as well... Your experience may be different.

I try not to bring it up too much, cause it can cause some pretty heated debate... LoL

There's a growing amount of folks that can attest to the difference - let the naysayers debate as much as they like.