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Are e-cigs overmarketted?

Discussion in 'Switching' started by FireDragon1138, Mar 16, 2014.

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  1. FireDragon1138

    FireDragon1138 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2014
    Orlando, Florida
    I believe they are. E-cig companies are making claims that they are smoking alternatives that are close enough to the real thing, or that they are smoking cessation devices. I believe both claims are questionable. A study in New Zealand showed that the e-cig worked no better than the patch.

    I've experimented with vaping for a few months. I was never interested in quitting, merely for looking for a way to "smoke" in an apartment that doesn't allow it. However, I'm finding they aren't as satisfying to vape as smoking a real cigarette. If I had known about these issues before I dived into the world of vaping, I might not have bothered.

    What do you think? Why do so many people on these forums struggle to adjust to e-cigs?
  2. Frenchfry1942

    Frenchfry1942 Chillin' Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 12, 2014
    I see them as different animals. E-cigs really only have nicotine in common with analogs. And, for me, e-cigs are nicotine cessation. I am down already in my nic strength. Because of my enjoyment, I think I will vape at zero nic when the time comes.

    E-cigs are very akin to the patch. E-cigs aren't the same as smoking.
  3. Thunderball

    Thunderball Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 5, 2013
    Grayson, Georgia
    Well, I would say that The fine folks in New Zealand that perfomed that study are complete idiots. Just ask most anyone here in these forums.

    I also dont think Ecigs are over marketed. The oposite is true. Ive only seen one Blue commercial (three times) and that was months ago. BTW, nothing is over marketed. When people quit buying a certain product completely, the marketing will cease........ like marketing a buggy whip. When is the last time you saw a marketing stratagy for that?

    It may not have worked for you, but look at the tens of thousand (more im sure) it has worked for, including me and my wife (37 year and 40 year smokers theat tried cold turkey, the patch, the gum) and quit over night with the introduction to vaping.

    I wish you luck in your continued smoking...
  4. glycerol

    glycerol Senior Member ECF Veteran

    May 18, 2013
    Central Europe
    Yeah, millions of ex-smokers are fooling
    themselves. Go ahead with the stinkies,
    it's much better.
  5. mostlyclassics

    mostlyclassics Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Exactly where have you seen any advertising claiming this? E-cigarette vendors can't make this claim, as a result of the legal wranglings that were settled in 2010, when the federal courts slapped down the FDA's banning and seizure of vape fluids and devices.
  6. FireDragon1138

    FireDragon1138 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2014
    Orlando, Florida
    My experience is that you have to be very commited to quitting smoking to get into e-cigs. I'm not committed enough to quitting, so I suppose that's why I'm struggling with them. I guess I don't smoke heavily enough or for long enough to really want to quit (I smoke lights, a little over half a pack a day).

    Companies aren't allowed to come out and say it's a quit-smoking device, so they market it as an alternative, without the long list of caveats that more experienced vapers on ECF can discuss. This is silly- vaping is vaping, even if many PV's look like cigarettes. The only thing they have in common is that they are held in the hand and involve heat.

    Perhaps I'm just an oddity- I can accept that some people take to e-cigs like a duck takes to water. But why don't the rest of us? And how many of us "vaping failures" are out there? I've searched the internet looking for this sort of stuff, but found very little. I'd be curious to find out more.

    Years ago I quit for a while by switching to smokeless tobacco- in fact that lead me to eventually get on the patch and quit altogether for several years. It wasn't the easiest thing, but I did find smokeless satisfying in a way that e-cigs aren't. Yet the hype is for e-cigs, not smokeless tobacco, even though smokeless tobacco has a more proven track record as an alternative to smoking and it's potentially cheaper, with little up-front costs. And the health risks from vaping are an unknown, whereas from smokeless they are well known and largely miniscule.

    I think the sad part of the hype for vapers is that its provoking politicians to treat e-cigs the same as cigarettes and worry about teen addiction and so on. I think this shows complete ignorance about actually having experience vaping and smoking (those that manage to switch to vaping typically show lower markers of nicotine dependence, for one thing- nicotine on its own is not particularly addictive). But the way e-cigs are being marketed, this makes sense that people want to believe the myth of the "electronic cigarette", that vapers are really smokers in disguise.
  7. mostlyclassics

    mostlyclassics Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Everyone is different. Individual people are not like peas in a pod. Everyone differs in significant ways from everyone else. There's good evidence that succeptibility to nicotine addiction depends on a slight and random modification of a few genes, with individuals running the gamut from zero succeptibility to instant addiction. (Sadly, I can't find the link: is in the process of reindexing its mammoth collection of articles. They're back to 2009. But I read this in 2003 or 2004.)

    Since I discovered vaping, I've made a point of always having a bunch of disposable cig-a-likes with me, which I distribute to receptive smokers. The recipients also get a card with information about CASAA and this forum. My guess is that maybe half or a little more have converted to vaping, more or less. Good for them! As far as the rest go, I tried, but it just wasn't to be for them.

    By the way, opioid addicts show a similar range of variability to harm reduction strategies. Some do just great with Methadone or Buprenorphine maintenance therapy, while some don't and then relapse. I have trigeminal neuralgia off and on. Back in the 1970's, the only semi-effective treatment was Dilantin plus massive doses of prescription opioids. After the pain subsided, I was left with a heavy opioid addiction. Every time I kicked the addiction cold-turkey and with no counselling or any sort of chemical help. The withdrawal symptoms were horrendous, but I never once backslid. With nicotine, it's been totally different.

    Fine. Smokeless worked for you, and vaping doesn't seem to. You aren't me, or most of the other hundred-and-some other thousands on this forum, or the millions who have found vaping to be a godsend. So, leave the rest of us alone.

    One size does NOT fit all, which seems to be how you want the world to run.
  8. FireDragon1138

    FireDragon1138 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2014
    Orlando, Florida
    I'm considering the possibility my equipment is not so great. I'm actually finding my Smokeless Image or Mistic e-cig vapes better than my unregulated Ego battery using atomizers+cartridges. CE4 clearomizers and the like seem to vape better but I hate the inconvenience and potential mess (I've gotten leaks from them, or worse, slurping up e-liquid).

    I just can't believe Ego's get recommended so much compared to something like the Volt or gas station e-cigs. If I were a heavier smoker maybe I'd feel differently.

    Nicotine-only e-liquid has sometimes driven me to nearly having panic attacks from the anxiety it causes. That means I tend to prefer WTA e-liquid, which is expensive. When I got into this e-cig stuff, I was totally ignorant of the difference between nicotine and tobacco alkaloids. E-cig companies aren't talking about this enough. As somebody looking for a smoking alternative, not a quit-smoking device, this mattered. E-cigs don't fully satisfy my tobacco habit. Yet the marketing makes it sound like they are a real alternative. No, they are just a different form of NRT, one that feels more like smoking. Which means it won't work for many people, since many people find NRT a failure too.

    Actually, sometimes I worry the combo of e-liquid vaping and real cigs has pushed me into mild, but prolonged nicotine OD. Today I just felt strung out, tried to take a nap because I was exhausted but I could not until I was thoroughly shot in the evening, then I took a fitful nap. I also noticed I puffed less on the cigs I smoked.
  9. Baldr

    Baldr Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 14, 2011
    Dallas, Tx
    If vaping was just a form of NRT, and had nothing else going for it, then I'd have quit vaping something like nine months ago. Because that's when I went to 0 nic. I'd started at 24, and used some 30 at first when I'd have serious cravings. (Mostly after meals.) Once I was off the cigs for awhile, I started cutting the nic down a bit at a time.

    If NRT was the only point, then I wouldn't be vaping. After all, I'm not getting nic. But the *habit* is still strong. Even at zero nic, if I go a long time without vaping, I start feeling the urge. When one of my trigger points (stress, eating a meal, drinking alcohol) hits, then I darn well want to vape. The fact that I'm not getting any nic doesn't change that.

    I do think that a lot of people try a gas-station cig or similar and say "It's not for me". Without good equipment, I'd probably still be smoking.

    I also think that even if you get good equipment and experiment for a bit, find a flavor/nic level combo that works for you, etc, it's still not going to work for you if you don't want to quit. In this case, you say in the first post that you don't really want to quit, and it sounds like you went and got a gas station e-cig. Sure, going that way, I'd be pretty surprised if it worked.

    Juice is probably the most important part to get right, and the hardest to get right. If you don't have enough nic, failure. If you have too much nic, failure. Some people need WTA's, else they get failure. You have to enjoy the flavor, else failure. And for most people, figuring out what juice works for them is fairly expensive, placing online orders for juices they haven't tasted and crossing their fingers. Heck, I've been vaping for almost 3 years, and I still have a bunch of juice I bought early on, because I didn't like it so it went to waste.

    It's not the same as smoking. It's similar, and I certainly used it to switch my addictions to something healthier and cheaper, but it's not the same.

    I have friends who started vaping, stuck with it, and are still happily vaping. I also have friends that tried it out and gave up. My theory is that those that tried it and gave up don't really want to quit smoking. If they really wanted to quit, they would try some different juice, adjust their nic level, ask questions, and find a way to make it work. It wasn't easy for me, either, and it took me months to get cig free. Eventually, I went to 30nic juice, and that did the trick. But it would have been easy for me to give up, go back to smoking, and say "Nothing else ever worked for me either".
  10. kachuge

    kachuge Super Member ECF Veteran

    well I've tried the patch, I've tried the gums, nothing beats vaping for fast nicotine delivery...... except an analog......

    don't know what that means to the questions at hand, but that's how I see it.......

  11. kachuge

    kachuge Super Member ECF Veteran

    ...oh, and don't think ecigs are over marketed at all, at all..... before a client gave me a starter kit last year, I had no idea what vaping was...

    had never seen an ad, or nuthin'

    I think we are just more conscious about the ads because we're vapors now.........

    but, like always.... just my opinion

  12. Bernard Marx

    Bernard Marx Moved On ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2014
    They are pretty darn close to feeling like cigarette smoking.
  13. alsmom

    alsmom Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 13, 2009
    Crypton, Colorado
    I wasn't even thinking of quitting, cigarettes were my gateway to meet other smokers, good people. But my son got me one and within about three days, no more analogs. Everyone is different, but it worked for me.
  14. stevegmu

    stevegmu Moved On ECF Veteran

    Everyone is different. I didn't start vaping to quit smoking; I just thought BLU was a cool gadget. They kept failing, so I moved on to VEA, which was great for a while. I still smoked; just didn't want to smoke in my car, as I bought expensive custom leather seat covers. I got tired of cartos, so bought a Triton kit and could no longer smoke after 5 days. It was disgusting. Never tried to quit; it just happened, and I smoked for 20 years...
  15. Steamix

    Steamix Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 21, 2013
    It works for most.
    Nobody will give you a guarantee that it works for everybody.
    It is what you make out of it.
    Vape, smoke, do both, do neither.

    E-cigs 'overmarketed' ?

    Surely you jest.

    Check the past advertising budgets of BT before they got slammed with restrictions or outright bans.
    That money goes into lobbying efforts now.
    And e-cig's still gaining ground rapidly.
    If e-cig makers would have the same budgets as BT used to allocate to hooking new consumers - pyros would cease to exist with a few years..
  16. stevegmu

    stevegmu Moved On ECF Veteran

    I can't imagine many people started smoking because of advertising...
  17. Noble Gas

    Noble Gas Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 12, 2014
    I'm sorry it hasn't been working out for you. Truly, I am. I smoked cigarettes for 30 years and tried to quit multiple times to no avail. The longest I was ever able to quit - cold turkey - was for three months. In that time I became so cranky and mean that my girlfriend dumped me and the stress took me right back to smoking. I was in my 20's then. I'm 50 now, and I've been vaping for nearly five months without any cravings to smoke an analog AT ALL. Zero cravings. Vaping totally fools my brain into thinking it's smoking; the hand-to-mouth, the throat hit, the plumes of gorgeous white puffy clouds... it's been wonderful. I can breathe again, and I can walk several miles without getting winded; things I was unable to do while smoking.
    As for the marketing, I haven't seen any. I tried Blu's when they first came out and it was entirely unsatisfying and frankly, just terrible. When my health situation demanded I quit smoking, I looked into e-cigs again on iine. Googled it. Never saw advertisement one. I had no idea things had come so far in the PV world, and I ran to the local vape shop which had just opened and told them to fix me up with whatever they thought I should try. I got an iClear 16 and a Vision Spinner, tried a few juices and nic levels in the store, and I've been vaping ever since. I now use an M16 mech and rebuildable dripper and I love it. Vaping is a life saver for me. And by that I mean I was going to die, and guess what I'm still alive. Overmarketed? I couldn't disagree more. From my perspective, they are vastly undermarketed. These things are the greatest invention since the wheel.
  18. Mig01

    Mig01 Senior Member

    My experience is similar to that of Noble Gas in the sense that I had absolutely no crabing for an analog smoke the minute I started vaping.
    In my case I did not try to use vaping as a way to help me quit smoking. I went into vaping for occasional use and it happened that I enjoyed it more than smoking. Nevertheless I kept cigarettes just in case I wanted one; I quit enough times in my life to know that I did not want to experience the cravings again. I did not smoke just because I did not feel a desire to do it.
    So for me vaping is not only a substitute for smoking, I like the substitute more than the original.
    As for marketing, there is no marketing to speak of where I live.
    As for Noble Gas, I went to a vape shop (learn about it from a friend). I asked a lot of question and the staff took the time to answer. They let me try different hardware and liquids they had, explained the pros and cons, I selected the kanger Tech EVOD starter kit I went on my way. I am using the same kit today (mind you it has been only two weeks).
    Vaping worked for me but obviously it does not work for everyone. Would it have worked for me if I had not found the right combination of hardware and liquid for a newbie like me? Probably not.
    I recommended to all my friends who still smoke to give vaping a try, not to quit smoking, just to see if they might enjoy it. This is important to me (not to encourage them to quit), because when I was still smoking there was nothing more annoying than an ex smoker encouraging me to quit, especially if they were pushing the method they had used
  19. The Rebel

    The Rebel Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2010
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    You need to research tobacco alkaloids and the effect they have. Alkaloids are a small but important part of tobacco and for some, hard to live without once they quit smoking. Nicotine is the large part but a lot of people also miss/crave the alkaloids. Your WTA juice includes those alkaloids, same as smokeless tobacco/snus/chew. That could explain your having better success with the WTA juice. Plus the upgrade in vaping equipment helps as well. I was a 30 year smoker who quit using Swedish snus plus occasional vaping. I tried doing it using only vaping and although I could cut it down to a couple analogs a day, I could never fully quit. Once I figured out I was missing the alkaloids and could get them through snus, I bought some and have been analog free ever since. Going on 18 months now when I couldn't get through a movie without stepping outside for a smoke before. I would wager it may be the alkaloids your missing that makes vaping non WTA juice unsatisfying.

    As far as over hyped, I would say that it's getting there especially on the internet. I see quite a bit of ads online. But as far as mainstream not yet. I imagine most companies are waiting on the FDA to drop the hammer before they invest much into the business. But big tobacco has already came out with their versions so expect that to change once they finish lining the FDA pockets to ensure they can be excluded from any detrimental decisions.
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