Are you religious?

How would you describe yourself?

  • Religious

  • Spiritual

  • Athiest

  • Agnostic

  • Anti Religious

  • Humanist

  • Esmoking is my only faith ;)

  • Other


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Vapor Pete

The Vapor Pope
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Mar 14, 2009
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Rochester, NY
Didn't know this was a debate? I was just giving you some facts that came true thousands of years after GOD already told us. There are other links besides "Bible Links" as you stated.

After you get done reading them and still want to believe that those are also "just coincidences or accidents" that is your right, and the free will GOD gave you.
I can't make you believe in GOD, and GOD can't make you believe in GOD. He wants us to "chose" him or else he would've just made us into robots.

God Bless xoxo

Most times, when people of differing opinions engage in a conversation, each positing their own sides into it, it could be called a debate. You gave me NO "facts"... you gave me biblical proof of the bible and its historical refrences. I didnt state there are other "bible links"< I said if you could provide unbiased third party links, I would admit you had a point. you did not. Free will is a farce... and a cop out. Telling someone to believe in something with what is essentailly a gun to their head is not free will.
And no you cant make me believe in god, but you are incorrect saying that god could not. Your god supossedly has every power imaginable. I would think that includes the ability to show himself, without doubt, that he exists.
And with all due respect... I do not need gods blessing. You may save that for your fellow christians.:D
My best,
-VP
 
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Vapor Pete

The Vapor Pope
ECF Veteran
Mar 14, 2009
2,847
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Wow, so much in so little time. In regard to some earlier posts. Before sin there was no death and God walked with man in harmony and man did have a job - to tend creation. After sin entered the relationship we see the first sacrificial death with an animal being slain to provide for clothing. Such a serious offense was sin that blood was shed. Man had striven for equality with God (just like lucifer) and from that point forward the relationship with God was changed. Death entered the world. God had made preparation for this event and from the beginning of time Jesus was to be the ultimate sacrifice (through shed blood)for this discretion. The angels stand amazed according to the scriptures; for although created beings like us, they were apparently not given any atonement for their rebellious acts but were sentenced to an eternity apart from the Creator. Cain's sacrifice was not acceptable to God and we're not sure why. We don't know if God required a blood sacrifice or just what the problem was but we are told that Abel brought the "first fruits" and it can be inferred that Cain did not of the best give or otherwise gave with the wrong attitude. Throughout the Old Testament the idea of sacrifice is continued and we are given a list of clean and unclean (Leviticus and Deuteronomy) foods and acts. Scholars suspect a practical reason regarding some of the requirements was health and hygine. God is practical after all. By the time we get to Acts (9:36-43) we see the clean/unclean food designation clarified for Peter (yes, he held some prejudices). And we are under the New Covenant now. Praise God. This is just a synopis from my recollection but hope it clears up a few thoughts instead of creating a bigger mess.

I cant even comment on this. well I can, but there is so much. I mean, in the first sentence, god had to creat man to tend to the creation??? He couldnt make it self sufficiant??? Did he lack that ability?
My best,
-VP
 

surbitonPete

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 25, 2009
2,915
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North Yorkshire UK
Ghosts exist.
No they don't
Yes they do
No they don't
Well show me one
I can't but they do exist, 'I' have seen them.
Can you show me one?
No
why not?
Because you don't believe in them.
How can I believe in them if I can't see them?
You have to believe in them first.
Does it matter if I don't believe in them?
I am afraid you will go to hell if you don't, you have to believe in them
But I simply can't believe in them until I see them!
Oh dear then I feel so sorry for you.

And so the conversation goes on and on and on.
 

Smokin'Sandy

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 28, 2009
400
45
Oklahoma City, OK/USA
Richie, I'm afraid Jesus is exclusive, John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." It's about Jesus not any particular religion per se.
I think it's that understanding of what he may have said that's exclusive. He was a beacon, not the light.
 

Kate

Moved On
Jun 26, 2008
7,191
47
UK
Eliquid.gif
 

surbitonPete

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 25, 2009
2,915
5
North Yorkshire UK
Sorry people ...I think my last post might have spoilt the thread a bit....I shouldn't have said anything..I know it's a subject loads and loads of people are very deeply interested in. ..........I will leave with a little thought that fascinates me ....it seems to me the universe and everything in it would be completely and utterly meaningless if 'we' weren't here to think about it.
 

Vapor Pete

The Vapor Pope
ECF Veteran
Mar 14, 2009
2,847
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Rochester, NY
Well. I am tempted to go ahead and follow the crowd here and bow out of the relgious discussion, in spite of the name of the thread. So I guess I will just say that this is the second time I have come across a thread like this, and posed my questions to those who make claims, only to have those questions dodged, ignored or unanswered. Its a bit frustrating. And then in the end, the unbeliever who is demanding the back up of claims made by the x-tian looks like the jerk when all he/she wants is a direct answere!? No one has called me a jerk. But I do kinda feel like one. Because I want to know! Heres how (not direct quotes) my last convo went:

poster: heres a link that can answere some scientific proofs about.. xxxx

Me: wow... Im sorry. The link you gave was a bible based website. Please provide a third party unbiased website to back up your claims.

poster: So, what kind of e-liquid does everyone like?

So now I feel/look like a jerk because Im still talking about it. My feeling is this: If you are going to post in a thread about being religious, and are going to put out your beliefs and claims, be prepared to have them called into question. If you have them called into question, ignoring the questions and changing the subject is not helping your integrity.
My best,
-VP
 

surbitonPete

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 25, 2009
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vapour Pete the trouble with all religion is that you could debate all night but in the end there is absolutely no 'Proof' that anyone can supply you with....for some reason people just 'believe' in something that has absolutely no evidence. For all anyone knows believing in the bible could be absolutely no different to people in thousands of years time believing that Harry Potter was real. Except that it's very unlikely because unlike the bible there will a be plenty of ways to check and find out that it was only a piece of fiction.
 

Vapor Pete

The Vapor Pope
ECF Veteran
Mar 14, 2009
2,847
2,134
Rochester, NY
He certainly could; afterall he's God. Genesis 2:15 "..to dress and to keep it." Isn't it great that he gave us a part in this thing called creation. With nothing invested in it what would be the purpose - just entitlement. No thanks.

So he could have, but chose not to. We are his playtoys put here to bow to him, take care of this universe he "created", or parish? By the very admission that I am here by someone elses choosing, I would say entitlement is at the very least, one of my rights.
My best,
-VP
 

Tallgirl1974

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 23, 2009
454
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Loganville, Ga
Well. I am tempted to go ahead and follow the crowd here and bow out of the relgious discussion, in spite of the name of the thread. So I guess I will just say that this is the second time I have come across a thread like this, and posed my questions to those who make claims, only to have those questions dodged, ignored or unanswered. Its a bit frustrating. And then in the end, the unbeliever who is demanding the back up of claims made by the x-tian looks like the jerk when all he/she wants is a direct answere!? No one has called me a jerk. But I do kinda feel like one. Because I want to know! Heres how (not direct quotes) my last convo went:

poster: heres a link that can answere some scientific proofs about.. xxxx

Me: wow... Im sorry. The link you gave was a bible based website. Please provide a third party unbiased website to back up your claims.

poster: So, what kind of e-liquid does everyone like?

So now I feel/look like a jerk because Im still talking about it. My feeling is this: If you are going to post in a thread about being religious, and are going to put out your beliefs and claims, be prepared to have them called into question. If you have them called into question, ignoring the questions and changing the subject is not helping your integrity.
My best,
-VP

I~ for one~ don't think you look like a jerk. I have debated this a lot over the years- I can play devils advocate and channel the inner want-to-believer in me and debate you pretty well I bet. But I wont win, because my logical non-believer side will eventually cave. lol
(I sound like I have MPD or something...):p
I have heard some very valid religious arguments, and have seen people have conversations without being ugly too. But its just not the norm, mostly its just arguing. But I always hope someone will say something to cement my thoughts on one side or the other.
 
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