artcile from Utah Deseret News

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Petrodus

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"Nearly 8 percent of Utah's sixth-, eighth-, tenth- and twelfth-graders
reported they had experimented with e-cigarettes and 3 percent had
used them in the past 30 days..."

Kind of shuts down the wide spread "rumor" that E-cigarettes
are something few have ever heard about
:ohmy:

Quoting Kristin:
Unfortunately, the zealots no longer care about "saving smokers." They only care about "saving the children" from the "evils of addiction." It doesn't even matter if the addiction is smokeless and has no worse health risks than the caffeinated soda to which they are already addicted...For everyone else opposing e-cigarettes, it's all about the money.
 

Spazmelda

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This is what I was going to post, if I can ever get an account set up. I can't figure out what the problem is. It's very long though. I don't know if they have a word limit.

This article leaves out a few pertinent facts.

“Nearly 8 percent of Utah's sixth-, eighth-, tenth- and twelfth-graders reported they had experimented with e-cigarettes”

According to a 2010 report, about 16% of Utah’s 6th, 8th, 10th and 12th graders at the time of the survey had, at some point, tried real cigarettes. At the time of that report 6.4% of 8th, 10th, and 12th graders were REGULAR users of cigarettes. Perhaps some of the youth who were ALREADY smoking and (presumably) addicted to regular cigarettes tried switching to electronic cigarettes instead. This article implies that these are youth that never would have tried nicotine in any form if it weren’t for electronic cigarettes.

“Among 19- to 24-year-olds, 25 percent reported having tried e-cigarettes and 9 percent continued to use them, according to the health department.”

Again, the 2010 Utah tobacco Use report lists current smokers broken down into various age groups. They don’t have 19-25, but they do list use for the age group of 18-34, which is shown as 11.3%. Those 9% of 19-25 year olds who continue to use e-cigarettes very well might be composed of former smokers of real cigarettes or young adults who have attempted to cut back their cigarette consumption by supplementing with an electronic cigarette.

“"There is no safe level of tobacco smoke," said David Neville, spokesman for the Tobacco Prevention and Control Program at the Utah Department of Health.”

While I would not argue that e-cigarettes are ‘100% safe’ I would argue that the evidence very much suggests that they are orders of magnitude safer than real cigarettes, because e-cigarettes do not produce ‘smoke’. They do not burn plant materials, from which most of the harmful effects of smoking originate. They heat a solution of nicotine, propylene glycol (GRAS by FDA), vegetable glycerin, and food safe flavorings. This mimicks the actions of smoking, but does not produce smoke.

“In smoking a cigarette, he said, a user generally knows how much nicotine is being consumed. "They know if they are a half-a-pack-a-day smoker. When it comes to an electronic cigarette, you just don't know. You just keep on smoking," Neville said.”

I would very much doubt that the average smoker knows how much nicotine they are getting from a real cigarette. If you asked the average smoker what their cotinine level was I don’t think they could tell you. I don’t think they could even tell you how many milligrams of nicotine a cigarette contains or delivers. You might know you are a half a pack a day smoker, but someone who uses electronic cigarettes knows how many cartridges or mls of nicotine liquid they are using and usually knows what strength that liquid is.

“But Neville argued that the device is not compatible with a step-therapy program because it delivers a specific level of nicotine to the user and can be refilled when emptied.”

This is entirely false. Nicotine liquid comes in a variety of levels of nicotine. You can even purchase liquid with no nicotine. You can easily implement a step down program for nicotine with an electronic cigarette if that is what you want to do. Electronic cigarettes can’t legally be marketed as a cessation tool, so sellers have to be very careful as to how they market this sort of thing.

“"It's confusing to a smoker or someone who is trying to quit," he said, noting that nicotine gums and patches are offered in varying nicotine levels and help people kick the habit.”

As I mentioned above, nicotine liquids do come in varying strengths or levels (with an even greater variety of levels than the gums and patches). Neville, while touting ‘approved’ quit medications, also failed to mention the abysmal success rate of gums and patches. What is confusing to me, as a former smoker, is why patches and gum continue to be thrown in my face as effective quitting methods, when current research (and my own personal experience) clearly shows that they are not.

While I am also ‘concerned about the children’ I think that these people are focusing their energies in the wrong direction. I would never want to see a child start smoking or using any tobacco product. I also support a ban on sales of electronic cigarettes to children. That just makes sense, but to ban use of a product that research is beginning to show might be a very viable option for smokers who want to reduce the harm they are doing to themselves (and indeed even quit smoking in many cases) to ‘protect the children’ is just insanity. There is just not enough evidence here to suggest that electronic cigarettes are luring naïve youth (children who have never tried tobacco at all) into nicotine use.
 

Petrodus

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"While I would not argue that e-cigarettes are ‘100% safe’ I would argue..."

The school bus that the children ride back and forth to school
is Not 100% safe

In my humble opinion...
Those opposing E-cigarettes are not interested in hearing the truth (period)
However, we can't stop replying and informing them of the truth
 

LibertariaNate

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Oh yes, I know that. I was just trying to make the point that I support that. I can reword that part to make it more clear.

I'm just nitpicking. I wasn't sure if you were aware seeing as you're based in OH. Maybe just an article change from "a ban" to "the ban".

I feel they should use the laws that are already in place. If it takes a few more underage "sting" operations to catch vendors that are selling to minors, so be it. They're fully aware of the law and if they are breaking it, they should be punished accordingly.
 

Spazmelda

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Oh, I see you are in Utah. I didn't notice that before. What exactly are they wanting to ban? I tried doing some reading, but I'm not sure what the current proposals include. I read something about banning use in public places, and then another that was proposing banning all sales of electronic cigarettes. I guess I should be clear on that before I post a response.
 

LibertariaNate

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The proposed ban on sales to adults was shelved or voted against. I don't really remember. It happened just before I started looking into e-cigs.

AFAIK, all proposals are currently shelved. This particular story was about the PTA making e-cigs a top priority. No doubt it will become an issue again soon.
 

Bill Godshall

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E-cigarettes weren't even included in the 2011 Utah youth survey that was cited in the news article.

Its been illegal to sell e-cigarettes to anyone under the age of 19 in Utah since 2010 (when these same e-cigarette prohibitoinists unsuccessfully lobbied the legislature to ban e-cig sales to adults by lying about the products).
If youth are using e-cigs, it appears that the Utah Health Department is failing to do its job of enforcing that law.

And now the PTA and Health Department are citing this unpublished (i.e. unverified) claim about youth usage of e-cigarettes while lobbying the legislature to ban the use of e-cigarettes by adults in all workplaces.
 

Spazmelda

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I noticed that about the Youth Survey as well. I only skimmed it, and it mostly seemed to be about alcohol use. I didn't find e-cigarettes mentioned, although smokeless tobacco and cigarettes were mentioned. I didn't read it carefully though, so I thought I might have missed mention of electronic cigarettes. The 2010 Tobacco report had more detailed statistics on tobacco and cigarette use, but I didn't see mention of electronic cigarettes there either.

So where did they get those numbers? Did they just make them up, or was it from some other survey?
 

Petrodus

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Its really never been a health issue fight...Health issues have just been their
"smoke screen" (pun intended).

Sooner or later those groups opposing E-cigs will get so frustrated with having
their lies beaten down with the truth...They will throw up their hands and admit
openly (like the King County's Board of Health)...They appose ANYTHING that
simply reminds them of smoking.
 
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Spazmelda

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