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I just ran up to the convenience store to grab some cracker jacks and there it was under Juuls. Nicotine is addictive. Couldnt much miss it.
Grrr... I knew they advertised to kids and teens, but I didn't realize how aggressively. Pretty disgusting.
Those ads really gave regulators something to sink their teeth into.
Generalized to the whole ecig industry, very effective visuals for the decision makers.
Thanks Juul.
Generalized to the whole ecig industry, very effective visuals for the decision makers.
Thanks Juul.
I do blame Juul because they knew, in 2015 when they launched their product, that the anti-vaping "save the children" campaign was in full swing--from Congress, FDA, and all 3-letter health agencies--while we vapers were trying to counter that e-cigs were meant to help addicted hard-core smokers quit and not for youngsters and virgin lungs or recreation. We tried to keep vaping as a harm-reduction product.
But Juul didn't care. They introduced an e-cig that really appealed to the young and hip crowd--the form factor, the 60 mg nicotine salts, sexual imagery instead of pathetic strawberry pictures on ugly plastic e-liquid bottles, and brilliant ad campaign. And that was the beginning of the teen vaping epidemic and the total frontal assault on vaping in general. Those contaminated THC carts were the final nail in the coffin. I don't know how we will able to recover from this.
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When I think about it, there are three distinct vape markets. There's the cig-a-like market, mostly for dual users. People who still smoke, but use the cig-a-likes in places where smoking is not appropriate and/or to cut down on the number of cigarettes. Me, from 2010 to 2013.
There's the open system market. Most of us "addicted hard-core smokers" who don't smoke anymore.
And the Juul market for the (mostly) 14-21 year old wanna-be cool kids. Obviously there are some adults who use the Juul too, either as their main vape, or out and about vape. And some cig-a-like dual users may have switched to the Juul as well. But I just don't see that many. Mostly kids and very young adults.
For the record--I have no problem whatsoever with Juul as a vaping device. In many ways, it's brilliant and it has helped many adults to quit smoking. My problem is with Juul's marketing campaign that purposefully and very effectively targeted and seduced middle and high school kids. The two guys who invented Juul are Stanford grads and Silicon Valley hipsters who understand the youth culture, social media, advertising, etc. very well. They knew what they were doing.
did a search for Juul mods and how to "make them better" on Youtube... 90% of the videos I looked at ( about 20 in a random order) include "kids" ( less than 21 y/o looking) as the poster and "educator"...
2 of the videos were posted by " adults" ( 35+ y/o)...
2 of the videos were posted by " adults" ( 35+ y/o)...
Let's assume for a moment that you are right. Have you considered the possibility that Juul's marketing has prevented a whole lot of kids from ever taking up smoking by giving them a "sexy" alternative?
My daughter is now a senior at a huge university campus. She says practically none of the students there smoke, and the few who do are almost exclusively foreign students, but plenty of students vape, and quite a lot of them use a Juul.
Maybe they should be required to a significant amount of money on a "Juul's Not Cool" campaign. Because that's the message kids and young adults need to hear. Health warnings themselves aren't all that effective when you think you're immortal. Kids acceptance of risk is far different than adults, so banging them over the head with health warnings will have far less impact.
Great link, a lot of info. More incriminating stuff than I'd seen. I guess part of that is the effort detailed here they made to scrub their marketing footprints. Not exactly scholarly, though- kind of a sloppy hit piece that contains some very real info.I deliberately used the the terms "younger Americans" and "older Americans", and not "kids" and "adults". Of course they're not gonna use teenagers in their ads.
The smoking rate among 18-24 year olds is much lower than 24-44 and 45-64 year olds, and the total numbers are far lower as well, but these ads only started to appear in 2019:
Prior to this year, their instagram page was full of these memes:
View attachment 841943
http://tobacco.stanford.edu/tobacco_main/publications/JUUL_Marketing_Stanford.pdf
Even the objective of the paper doesn't make sense. And it makes some really big "anti" leaps in some conclusions - i.e., flavors are intended only for youth, the fact that they compensate reviewers/affiliates is supposed to substantiate the claim of marketing to youth. They also use the fact that social media is part of marketing, by default means they were marketing to youth. That their colors are similar to American Spirit, which some young people smoke.
All that said, this is exactly what I've asked for to substantiate claims people make. It's easy to see what they were doing the first few months of the launch, and weren't very careful at all about nicotine warnings for quite some time. It does show that they started a switch mid 2018 marketing to older (includes 55 & 81 yr. olds in the ads used in this paper), though- back when they really started getting a lot of attention for ubiquity in high schools. But nobody that sees all of this will think they're anywhere near innocent. It altered my view of them somewhat.
Thanks for posting.
Couldn't agree more. I think your analysis is spot on. I think they were determined to reach the conclusion they did, but Juul gave them a lot of ammo. Some of those early marketing efforts made a mockery of their stated mission.
I did, of course. But I see it a bit differently. Teen smoking rates were going down for years. When my daughters were in high school, very few kids smoked cigarettes, maybe 10-15%? Smoking wasn't cool. Kids drank and smoked marijuana and some used other drugs, hookah bars were somewhat popular around here. Some discovered vaping and experimented with it, mostly eGo-like devices with drop-in coils.
But it all changed around 2016-2017 when Juul became a thing. Juul created its own universe/epidemic, for lack of a better word. And with 60mg/ml (benzoic) salt nic that these kids are getting hooked on, I have my doubts. In addition, many students who can't afford genuine Juul carts (or prefer different flavors) buy Juul-compatible cartridges--who knows what is in those carts.
Agreed. My daughters, both roughly your daughter's age, report the same thing. I see both university and high school kids around here every day. Go to any Starbucks or Pete's and you'll inevitably see young students each equipped with a coffee cup, a cell phone, and an open laptop with a Juul charging.
ETA: @Kurt and many others have expressed reservations about inhaling benzoic acid.
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Do you believe they would fall for it? I don't. I think they would recognize it for what it is.
That goes double when there aren't any proven risks at all.
I really cannot blame Juul for taking an Apple like approach to making a product. Their website is slick.
The appearance of the device and ergonomics; they clearly thought about it and invested in how should it look? what should it feel in the hand? In the pocket? What should the experience be like when taking a draw?
I too have reservations about the effects of adding benzoic acid, but the fact is they did, and addressed a key reason why people may not switch to e-cigs, the inhale to brain rush time that a smoke gives.
Even that apparently silly proprietary connector? Well it's not so silly when you see it hooked up to a hip laptop, aimed upward, a symbol of "I am hip".
Their earliest advertisements certainly did target a young crowd, the whole I am liberated, I have my whole life ahead of me, and it's hip and sexy to Juul.
Their in store presentation is modern.
They may have over priced their product, but the give away razor and sell them blades model is a model that works for many companies.
I am essentially a red type at heart and admire that they got so much right in terms of a business plan and execution.
Problem is, they drew attention to the industry in a way that threatened big tobacco, and opened a door for politicians seeking to profit by riding along the coattails. And lets face it too, anything to do with tobacco is a big cash cow now. The FDA has all the evidence they need smoking makes people sick, but then they also message, we do it all for you America, for your health, that is our goal. Talk about a lie that is so blatant, so brazen, it's hard to even fathom, so block the in-congruence out. Thanks FDA for looking out for us.
Yes kids try out stuff as they reach their teenage years and approach their adult years. Nothing new about that.
I really cannot blame Juul for being a smart business though, and I am not surprised that all those other e-cig options never reached that critical social mass that the Juul has or did with younger people. They like their Apple watches and iPhones too. To blame it on candy flavors, silly, a bag of skittles is cheaper and legal for kids to buy too.
Does Juul even have candy flavors? Last time when I looked they had stuff like cucumber or something like that.
Okay well fruity flavors, or mint. The kids also aren't going out to buy mangos, or mango flavored candy. Nor mints, which you can definitely get mints at any convenience store, or grocery store check out.
'Dad and Mom, I am sorry I Juul'ed, I got addicted because it tasted of mint.'
We've heard that story for so long now, it's so drilled into our brains, that we don't even question the legitimacy of that claim. I certainly didn't start smoking because it was about it tasting like a mint. The social aspects, coolness, stress relief, etc., all had far more to do with it.
'Dad and Mom, I am sorry I Juul'ed, I got addicted because it tasted of mint.'
We've heard that story for so long now, it's so drilled into our brains, that we don't even question the legitimacy of that claim. I certainly didn't start smoking because it was about it tasting like a mint. The social aspects, coolness, stress relief, etc., all had far more to do with it.
I always wondered why they never built in a little flash drive so it's a dual use device. Then your kid could get "But mom, you can't throw it out. All my homework is on there!"
p.s. fyi, I was purposefully being a bit misleading by writing about the CDC and FDA using those simple 3 letter versions, because the ideal goal of the CDC and FDA are reasonable goals. I have no doubt they have some excellent people among them, but ...
The FDA is not a one minded entity, nor is the CDC. Both are large organizations, many roles to be played, from the forward facing to the behind the scenes people who are just trying to provide honest research, and facts. Obviously writing all that out in each sentence cannot work. I am really not picking on them, or the people who work there in general. Just that because they are both government agencies, and that we only get to see the forward facing side, and that side when overly influenced by politicians whose only real goals are money, election, re-election, power, yea that is where my critique lies
The FDA is not a one minded entity, nor is the CDC. Both are large organizations, many roles to be played, from the forward facing to the behind the scenes people who are just trying to provide honest research, and facts. Obviously writing all that out in each sentence cannot work. I am really not picking on them, or the people who work there in general. Just that because they are both government agencies, and that we only get to see the forward facing side, and that side when overly influenced by politicians whose only real goals are money, election, re-election, power, yea that is where my critique lies
FWIW--Phil and Dimitri are blaming Juul for the current crisis--at least partially. Especially for salt nic and nic strength. They like the U.K. and European cap on nic strength (20 mg/ml)--they believe that the 20 mg/ml cap keeps teens from getting hooked on Juul. Long video, but I agree with them.
Go to 1:39:45 or so.
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