ASH Holes and gaps in logic

[Saint57]

ASH (Action on Smoking and Health) or (Against Society's Happiness) is acting more like .... (Bureaucratic Urban tobacco Taliban). This group of former hippies and peace-nicks from the sixties hung up their love beads in 1967 and formed an organization intent on protecting America from herself. I think we all agree that tobacco is harmful to health. As is alcohol, overeating, stress, repetitive motion, bad mattresses and nagging spouses. But we accept those risks and enjoy our freedom. The Progressive worldview holds that Americans too stupid to make those kind of decisions. Cass Sunstien, the Obama administration's Regulatory Czar said "We think that, as my co-author, Thaler and I, that there's a little Homer Simpson in all of us. Sometimes we have self-control problems, sometimes we're impulsive and that in these circumstances, both private and public institutions, without coercing, can make our lives a lot better." (examiner.com) PLEASE UNDERSTAND that Cass Sunstien was not subjected to Senate conformation nor has he any congressional oversight, yet, he controls and issues all federal regulations! This guy is a real piece of work. Just read some of his writings. http://www.lanternsofliberty.us/PDF/DOCcasssustein.pdf

Now, with the full force of the Obama Administration and the FDA, ASH has now inserted it's meddling little socialist nose into the electronic cigarette market in a big way. This is just how hypocritical and twisted this groups logic is. They are against tobacco use. Hooray! so are we. So instead of joining with us to help people get off of deadly tobacco they want to eliminate one of the most promising smoking abatement technologies ever. You see, it's not about smoking or food safety or the environment or guns or capitalism or hunting etc. etc., it's about CONTROL and POWER. They go into seizures if a prayer is recited to open a government meeting because they don't want religious zealots forcing their beliefs on anyone. Yet in the same breath they will gladly tromp on the freedoms that we enjoy as vapers. It is vitally important that the vaping community take these people seriously. King County is a prime example of what happens when good people do nothing. Many thanks to ECF and CASAA. PLEASE JOIN CASAA! Give generously. They are one of the only groups that are in Washington and able to fight the Vapor Nazis. Thank you for indulging me.

 

[sherid]

I and others on this forum have been sounding the alarm against anti-smoking groups for years. We have repeatedly said that those vapers who use the language of anti-smokers, separate themselves from smoking issues, and haughtily declare themselves above the "lowly" status of smokers were/are being set up by groups such as ASH. Anti-smoker groups never stop, and it is clear that ASH and others like them are out to end anything that even resembles smoking; thus, they come after vapers. As for the above post, I agree with all of it except where it says it is the fault of aging hippies. I am an aging former hippy, and I can say unequivocally that any self-respecting REAL hippy would never support such intrusions into personal freedom. There were a lot of wanna-be's back in the day: wolves in sheep clothing. I guess it might be those people who have gone through life pretending to be whatever was PC at the moment. They are still doing that.

 

[Vocalek]

Sherid is right on (target). No self-respecting hippie from the 60s would advocate the nanny state. If the ASH-holes ever were hippies, they abanded everything we stood for, put on suits, and became "the man."

 

[studio52]

Thanks for the post..

 

[rothenbj]

I will second everything stated by Sheri as one of the elder bearded generation. I'll also add that it's time for us to stop buying into any of the tobacco argument and certainly stop repeating it. I believe we all understand inhaling smoke, in any form, is not good for us. However, those that desire to do so have the right to make that decision. Other forms of tobacco use reduce the health issues by up to 99%. To constantly repeat the ANTZ stance of equality between smoking and tobacco/nicotine use is just feeding into their propaganda.

It's bad enough that they used some pretty shoddy evidence to ban smoking in privately owned businesses on cherry picked evidence of SHS dangers. They are now pushing the outdoor bans, building political science evidence on THS which they'll use to try to control all tobacco/nicotine use to their abstinence philosophy. Let's not help them.

 

[sherid]

Sherid is right on (target). No self-respecting hippie from the 60s would advocate the nanny state. If the ASH-holes ever were hippies, they abanded everything we stood for, put on suits, and became "the man."

AMEN to that. Hippies were about freedom and the right to do whatever the HE!! we wanted to do. We were anti-establishment and certainly would never support a group like ASH or people like J. Banzass or S. Glantz.

 

[D103]

Sherid is absolutely correct. I too am an aging former hippy and there were in fact a number of wannabes during those times - the "joiners, the social climbers, the status seekers"; they all have grown up to become the antithesis of the hippy generation - control freaks, power mongers, charlatans and backdoor deal makers. Our congress is wrought with these turncoats and their lack of maturity, vision, self-control and true leadership continues to not only embarrass this country but quite literally is selling this country out as we all sadly witness the systematic dismantling of the middle class/working class.

As has been said by Sherid, Vocalek, Rothenbj and others: NO self-respecting hippy from those times would have anything to do with the out of control, maniacal, nannying, governmental intrusions going on today - if this were the sixties there would be masses in the streets in every city in this country and trust me when I say things NEVER would have gotten this far out of whack. To the charge of becoming complacent, I plead Guilty and I feel angry and heartbroken over many of the travesties perpetrated by my generation.

 

[sherid]

Sherid is absolutely correct. I too am an aging former hippy and there were in fact a number of wannabes during those times - the "joiners, the social climbers, the status seekers"; they all have grown up to become the antithesis of the hippy generation - control freaks, power mongers, charlatans and backdoor deal makers. Our congress is wrought with these turncoats and their lack of maturity, vision, self-control and true leadership continues to not only embarrass this country but quite literally is selling this country out as we all sadly witness the systematic dismantling of the middle class/working class.

As has been said by Sherid, Vocalek, Rothenbj and others: NO self-respecting hippy from those times would have anything to do with the out of control, maniacal, nannying, governmental intrusions going on today - if this were the sixties there would be masses in the streets in every city in this country and trust me when I say things NEVER would have gotten this far out of whack. To the charge of becoming complacent, I plead Guilty and I feel angry and heartbroken over many of the travesties perpetrated by my generation.

In the late 60's, lots of people wore bell bottoms and flashed peace signs, and smoked .......... They called themselves hippies because it was cool and allowed them to fit in with the times. Unfortunately, a good number of them were simply posers who had nothing in their souls that defined the movement itself. They had no compassion for the poor, no outrage against the war, no desire to march in the streets for civil rights or women's rights. When they left campus, they cut their hair, put on suits, and became bankers and politicians. They dumped the jeans for disco and leisure suits and later for 4 star restaurants and a McMansion in the suburbs. They micromanaged their children's lives, and now they try to do so for the rest of us. They were posers then; they are posers now. Should smoking become cool again, they would pick up the habit.

 

[kristin]

They are against tobacco use. Hooray! so are we.

CASAA is not "against tobacco use." CASAA is against groups like ASH, ALA, ACS, CFTFK, FDA and CDC lying to the public about the low risks of smokeless tobacco (including e-cigarettes) use.

You see, it's not about smoking or food safety or the environment or guns or capitalism or hunting etc. etc., it's about CONTROL and POWER.

Absolutely true. Add "and MONEY" and then you'd be fully accurate.

 

[Wingapo]

Having been born two years after The Summer of Love I'm still waiting to feel it. I'm a descendant of the original hippies, The First People, and a child of a couple hippies. I now live in Taos, one of the great hippie meccas of our country, so I guess I'm a bit luckier than many as the beliefs and causes from back in the day are still running strong here. As long as I and others like me don't act like ex-smoking zealots we can pretty much vape where we want without hassle of any kind. Around these parts as long as you don't force your beliefs on anyone else it's all good and that's really the way it should be, don't you think?

 

[Vocalek]

Having been born two years after The Summer of Love I'm still waiting to feel it. I'm a descendant of the original hippies, The First People, and a child of a couple hippies. I now live in Taos, one of the great hippie meccas of our country, so I guess I'm a bit luckier than many as the beliefs and causes from back in the day are still running strong here. As long as I and others like me don't act like ex-smoking zealots we can pretty much vape where we want without hassle of any kind. Around these parts as long as you don't force your beliefs on anyone else it's all good and that's really the way it should be, don't you think?

Right on, brothers and sisters.

 

[DC2]

Thank you for indulging me.

Before I started using an electronic cigarette I would have thought you were a nut.
Before I started learning about those who oppose electronic cigarettes, and why, I would have thought the same.

Now I would rather thank YOU for putting things so succinctly.

 

[sherid]

Having been born two years after The Summer of Love I'm still waiting to feel it. I'm a descendant of the original hippies, The First People, and a child of a couple hippies. I now live in Taos, one of the great hippie meccas of our country, so I guess I'm a bit luckier than many as the beliefs and causes from back in the day are still running strong here. As long as I and others like me don't act like ex-smoking zealots we can pretty much vape where we want without hassle of any kind. Around these parts as long as you don't force your beliefs on anyone else it's all good and that's really the way it should be, don't you think?

Yes, it should be. Thank your parents for their influence. I was 17 during the summer of love. It was a wonderful summer.