The ECA should challenge ASH to a formal public debate. I would pay to see it. I highly doubt they'd accept as they have no substantial evidence to support such claims, only fear-mongering nonsense.
ASH seekd to Regulate E-cigs
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The ECA should challenge ASH to a formal public debate. I would pay to see it. I highly doubt they'd accept as they have no substantial evidence to support such claims, only fear-mongering nonsense.
Nicotine can be fatal in doses over 60mg, and with people using/handling liquids at a 36mg/g ratio a few drops could potentially be fatal if you inject it directly into your heart, or drink a bottle of it.
But hey, I buy drano all the time and manage to not drink/inject/pour it into my eyes. And I'm pretty sure if I started to get nauseous/dizzy/vomit while inhaling on an ecig I'd notice rather quickly and stop puffing on it.
There's also the problem with determining nicotine toxicity in humans as due to a few differences in the binding protein nicotine targets in the brain and the ones in muscle tissue which will lead to death are enough to prevent nicotine from having any effect on muscle tissue without extremely high saturation, and testing on animals would prove inappropriate as the difference between the receptor in the brain and muscle of humans is a single amino acid. That one amino acid keeps nicotine from being easily fatal in humans, and they'd be hard pressed to find an animal with the same EXACT receptors as humans.
But hey, I buy drano all the time and manage to not drink/inject/pour it into my eyes. And I'm pretty sure if I started to get nauseous/dizzy/vomit while inhaling on an ecig I'd notice rather quickly and stop puffing on it.
There's also the problem with determining nicotine toxicity in humans as due to a few differences in the binding protein nicotine targets in the brain and the ones in muscle tissue which will lead to death are enough to prevent nicotine from having any effect on muscle tissue without extremely high saturation, and testing on animals would prove inappropriate as the difference between the receptor in the brain and muscle of humans is a single amino acid. That one amino acid keeps nicotine from being easily fatal in humans, and they'd be hard pressed to find an animal with the same EXACT receptors as humans.
Even if their petition doesnt succeed, next will be ASH pushing for legislation at the local level. They'll start trying to get cities, counties, and states to start banning not only the sale of, but also the use of ecigs.
I suspect you're right...it's the same way ASH accomplished the smoking ban...by baby steps. Now some smokers can't smoke in their own apartments, parks, venues of entertainment, and they have been prevented from being foster/adoptive parents.
Yes, and the FDA monitors nicotine as one of many pesticides that may leave "residue". It's a shame that nicotine was ever found to be a pesticide, it would have made the regulating of it for e-cigs so much more acceptable. It appears easier to equate e-cigs with an analogue rather than equate it with a pesticide.
Monitoring program of pesticides from FDA: (if interested)
US FDA/CFSAN - Pesticide Residue Monitoring Program Results and Discussion FY 2006
Okay I might get yelled at for this but I think you cant scorn a individual group for using there rights to want a ban. I think instead of attacking these groups why dont we form some kind aliance if you will to get them to understand ow this works and how it could save millions. Even go as far getting these ecigs tested and let them see the truth for themselves. This country I think is still a free country...well better than most countries I know about. But I will say they were right in the fact they SE and other companies were promoting this as a safer alturnitive and a quit smoking device. By doing so it fell in the FDA's lap. Congress gave them the power to regulate nicotine but not cigarettes. ITs a double standard folks and that is what greed and power is all about. Actually according to the FDA any device that gives the user a drug must go through FDA. Well cigarettes are a drug delivering device. And has been proven to kill and will kill if you dont even use the device. and can be So that actually can fall under the FDA and if needed can request a total wide ban of smoking....One other thing that I like about ASH I that there trying to ban smoking in apartments and condos. which to me is fantastic. TO many children and elderly are being poisend by secound hand smoke. No matter what you say smoke can travel through the space in the walls and through wall plugs and pipes. Secound hand smoke is deadly. I believe cigarettes should be concidered drug delivering device and be tossed out like marijuana....but I have issues about false information on marijuana and its status for being illegal.....
Since so many people smoke cigarettes and other tobacco products in close proximity to children, often even when they are holding the child or even breast feeding an infant, it is virtually certain that a significant percentage of e-cigarette users will likewise use this new product in close proximity to children – especially if they become convinced from the advertising or otherwise that the exposure does not present any significant risks. Thus very young children, whose bodies and bodily defenses are still developing, and including many with pre-existing conditions, will also be exposed to this toxic drug. These are all major concerns which cannot be ignored any longer.
I love this one. I can't count the number of times I've seen people breast feeding a baby, puffing away.
I love this one. I can't count the number of times I've seen people breast feeding a baby, puffing away.
mmmvaping - I completely see your side of this. One thing that concerns me on the no smoking in apartments or condos, is that many of these buildings are privately owned. Now, I can completely understand a government subsidized building being smoke free. What I can't stomach, is the government telling a private business owner what type of environment he must provide to his patrons, and those paying rent for an apartment are in a way patrons. They can choose to live in a smoke free environment or not. This also applies to restaurants and bars.
On the flipside of that however, as a parent with a child, I certainly would like family restaurants to not have smoking. However, any establishment that has an age limit of 21 or older, should not have these government imposed bans. In a way, these bans take away my right to choose which establishment I wish to support almost as much as it removes the rights of the owner to provide the environment they wish to provide.
With all of the anti-smoking groups, there is no doubt in my mind that they all started out with good intentions. Over time though, many have left their mission statements behind and instead of helping people choose to not smoke, they are forcing them too. From personal experience, I know that every time I was badgered into quitting, I failed miserably. And the one time that I finally accept that I am going to just reduce my tobacco cig intake and I accidentally quit one day, well now they have a problem with that too.
And with all due respect, wouldn't bar glasses be a "drug delivery device" considering they too deliver a drug that affects the body?
Finally, you are totally right. Some companies did in fact, cross over that line and the FDA has every right to stop their products. SE being one of the biggest offenders by their lack of oversight and training on their resellers. This is definitely something that we will have to overcome, but it isn't the first time a sibling has been punished for the things another sibling does.
Not to say I told you so, but many people here warned that the battle between smokers and anti smokers is the same one e smokers face. If vapers separate themselves from smokers rather than join that battle, they are missing the point. This is not about health. It is about CONTROL and money. It is also not a good idea IMO to consort with the enemy.
Actually, the FDA does approve drugs that kill people. They do it all the time.
Oh - and how about cigarettes? Do they kill people?
The FDA should worry about the peanut butter we purchase from the
store shelves which, unknown to us, contain deadly bacteria.
It is my choice to vape. I know what is in it and as an adult, I choose to vape it.
Hmm??? Do cigarettes contain nicotene and 4000 other harmful chemicals???
IDIOTS!!! It takes the US Government to raise an agency full of IDIOTS!
Oh - and how about cigarettes? Do they kill people?
The FDA should worry about the peanut butter we purchase from the
store shelves which, unknown to us, contain deadly bacteria.
It is my choice to vape. I know what is in it and as an adult, I choose to vape it.
Hmm??? Do cigarettes contain nicotene and 4000 other harmful chemicals???
IDIOTS!!! It takes the US Government to raise an agency full of IDIOTS!
"And with all due respect, wouldn't bar glasses be a "drug delivery device" considering they too deliver a drug that affects the body?"
Lacey - We need you in the US Senate!
Lacey - We need you in the US Senate!
I dont care if I cant use my pc every where. Its ok with me if they make them fall under the smoking ban. That isn't my battle. I just want to be able to use it and buy parts and juice.
Interestingly, if you read the petition page you'll see that the main thrust of the complaint is that e-cigs contain nicotine, and nicotine should be regulated by the FDA.
They further claim that some companies are promoting the e-cig as a smoking cessation device (which is true), but the company they choose to illustrate this is ecigaretteusa.com.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that ecigaretteusa is the company that only sells zero-nicotine cartridges.
Seems to me, therefore, that ecigaretteusa is currently being rather defamed by ASH.
Someone should really stir things up methinks.
ASH are clearly an intolerable organisation, and should have no credibility with clear thinking people.
They further claim that some companies are promoting the e-cig as a smoking cessation device (which is true), but the company they choose to illustrate this is ecigaretteusa.com.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that ecigaretteusa is the company that only sells zero-nicotine cartridges.
Seems to me, therefore, that ecigaretteusa is currently being rather defamed by ASH.
Someone should really stir things up methinks.
ASH are clearly an intolerable organisation, and should have no credibility with clear thinking people.
Thanks for the vote of confidence... but did my time on the Hill and while it was an eye opening experience... no thanks!
Rather be in the valley with my peeps trying to change things. 
This is a REALLY good point and one I think makes the ecig no different than the toys at zerotoys. I am curious if ASH is aware of the "Wizard Stick". The ecig happens to be a "vapor blaster" for adults. Since when can't adults have novelty items? It's as silly as saying adults don't like flavors. Personally, I need a little flavor to get the booze down.
However, even without nicotine, you still can't make those claims. Look at Cheerios. They don't have any drug in them whatsoever and they recently got bashed by the FDA for making a claim that their product could reduce cholesterol. Which a study even showed that it can!
There are some serious issues with the FDA, the FTC, et all right now. Personally, I am confused that the FDA went after General Mills considering the FTC is supposed to go after claims, not the FDA. (I might be totally wrong here, but that is what my understanding is.) The FDA regulates the products and the FTC ensures the products are marketed properly.
Your assumption is correct though. ASH wants to see all nicotine regulated by the FDA so eventually, they can badger the FDA into not allowing nicotine in any products.
and here is where the "movement" is headed next if you can stomach reading this.
Treat obese like smokers, says expert | The Australian
Treat obese like smokers, says By Sean Plambeck | May 21, 2009
Article from: NEWS.com.au
Obesity approach "must be changed"
Calls for taxes, advertising bans
Should be treated like cigarettes
Shape up ... Professor Boyd Swinburn says the Government must change its obesity policies. Picture: Michael Potter
ADVERTISING bans, taxes on unhealthy products and junk food free zones are needed to get Australians to lose weight, an obesity expert says.
The Federal Government must abandon its current policies and take up a hardline campaign like those used against cigarettes and drink driving, Deakin University’s Professor Boyd Swinburn says.
“The Government action has been all about soft policies such as education programs and promoting healthy lifestyles, but that is not going to cut the mustard anymore,” Professor Swinburn said.
Treat obese like smokers, says expert | The Australian
Treat obese like smokers, says By Sean Plambeck | May 21, 2009
Article from: NEWS.com.au
Obesity approach "must be changed"
Calls for taxes, advertising bans
Should be treated like cigarettes
Shape up ... Professor Boyd Swinburn says the Government must change its obesity policies. Picture: Michael Potter
ADVERTISING bans, taxes on unhealthy products and junk food free zones are needed to get Australians to lose weight, an obesity expert says.
The Federal Government must abandon its current policies and take up a hardline campaign like those used against cigarettes and drink driving, Deakin University’s Professor Boyd Swinburn says.
“The Government action has been all about soft policies such as education programs and promoting healthy lifestyles, but that is not going to cut the mustard anymore,” Professor Swinburn said.
I'm sorry but I just can't let this statement stand. Smoke travels thru walls, wall plugs, and pipes??? Where are you living in a crate with missing slats? Do some research please!
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