Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

[drunkenbatman]

"We are now doing running charging." ????

Any idea what that means?

This has come up a few times.. running changes, it's a manufacturing term. It's just someone where english isn't their first language. In manufacturing, a running change is the equivalent of a chef going "sub carrots for peas on the chicken kiev." The menu doesn't change, the packaging doesn't change, it isn't a revision B or C, they basically just sub it on the fly. Like it might happen with o-rings if they switch suppliers or something so the color changes, or in this case cotton.

 

[Katya]

This has come up a few times.. running changes, it's a manufacturing term. It's just someone where english isn't their first language. In manufacturing, a running change is the equivalent of a chef going "sub carrots for peas on the chicken kiev." The menu doesn't change, the packaging doesn't change, it isn't a revision, they basically just sub it on the fly.

Aha. Translation--we're quietly replacing fiberglass with cotton, but we are also trying to sell the existing stock. Right?

 

[Katya]

That is what I was thinking. Just got a new pack with the bigger holes. Think I'm going to tear one down this weekend, see what's in there.....

Let us know if/when you do, will ya'?

Thanks.

 

[MrsMojoRisin]

Ya know, I just remembered I have a package of Fast-tech clone Atlantis coils. I'm gonna break them down and see what's in em'. You know, for funsies...

I'm super lame

 

[stevegmu]

My guess is they will keep using the fiberglass wicks until they run out, or sell the fiberglass wicks on the gray market, where they will end up being used in 'clones'...

 

[drunkenbatman]

Well, if db is correct, Glass Fiber is just how they refer to silica. That still doesn't explain how the coils can be 100% organic cotton and use silica as well. Now, if that is the case and it is a combination of Silica and Cotton that's fine, why not just state that then.

Well, I want to be clear -- I am correct in that it's a common translation, but it doesn't mean that what's in them is silica, all cotton, or this monstrous ceramic paper that factories in China must be trying to use up. It just means that there are enough open questions, or enough reasonable doubt, that I'm not ready to start spreading it here and elsewhere as my conscience demands (I have most of the 00s to make up for).

e.g., I can say with certainty that glass fiber is how silica is often translated in China, because we're basically talking amorphous silica rope, which is silicon dioxide, which is glass. We call it silica, while others call it glass fiber, which is different from fibreglass. It's why things like sodium silicate are called waterglass. Here's two examples, smoktech/etc:

Glass Fiber/silica Wick For Clearomizer - Buy Silica Wick,High Silica Glass Fiber,High Silica Fiber Chopped Strand Product on Alibaba.com

Glass Fiber Wick / Fiber Silica Wick 1.0 Mm 10m High Quality E-cig Porous Wicks Silica Fiber - Buy E-cig Porous Wicks Silica Fiber,Glass Fiber Wick / Fiber Silica Wick 1.0 Mm,High Quality E-cig Porous Wicks Silica Fiber Product on Alibaba.com

So it's *entirely* possible silica is being used with cotton, or it's cotton being named wrong due to translations... or some blend... or sicklyfiber. I know different blends of cotton exist (plastics, etc.) but I'm not really up on them like I am with Gilmore Girls trivia (Team Jess!). The website has some confusing stuff. "Glass fiber cotton - certified to be healthy" next to "The wick inside organic cotton." Well, certificated by whom? Are these just ROHS certs for materials, or what? Or is it certified organic? It's kind of odd.

The company has stated that it's just 100% organic cotton, so it's either true or rope to better hang them. The company/minion could be lying or misinformed, but there isn't a huge track record of dishonesty (only thing coming to mind is iStick20w voltages) so I can't automatically check a box. We also have to remember the entire crux of the concern is over an ambiguous image on a website using language like, "With totally five inlet holes on MELO base, the airflow is more unimpeded," so I just can't drop the hammer until we have more info, which we need to get.

I should have my new Atlantis coils on Saturday and I will be promptly dissecting one to settle this part of the debate. I will post pics here as well so we can all see what's going on.

People dissecting coils makes my utility belt tingle.

 

[capthook]

There is no doubt that the 'ceramic' material in question in the BVC isn't/wasn't cotton.
Aspire had posted the lab specs for a short while before pulling it.
The attached pic was of interest to me.

http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_...ld2/atlantis_wick_under_microscope_vs_cotton/

 

[aikanae1]

It was the crumble to dust nature of the material that concerned me. Cotton or not, wet or dry, that material was subject to being inhalded where it didn't belong = my lungs. I could understand a reasonable explaination but none was given.

 

[MrsMojoRisin]

So, I received my new cotton Atlantis heads from Kidney Puncher and I have to say they look good. They do appear to me to be all cotton as stated. Here are the pics I promised







As you can see the cotton is stacked in thin layers and feels similar to gauze or a bandage. About to fill up the tank and take her for a test run!

 

[drunkenbatman]

So, I received my new cotton Atlantis heads from Kidney Puncher and I have to say they look good. They do appear to me to be all cotton as stated. Here are the pics I promised

And here I didn't get you anything! Sincere thanks.

As you can see the cotton is stacked in thin layers and feels similar to gauze or a bandage. About to fill up the tank and take her for a test run!

The gauze is really interesting in terms of design, it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out with different VG ratios, and since you've already rebuilt these as cotton (you used japanese right?) it'll be cool to see how it compares.

 

[MrsMojoRisin]

I've run through almost a tank so far (in almost 2 hours...ouch) and they are wicking and hitting like a champ. No dry hits at all on my Skeleton Key clone vapin Moe by Beantown. It's from their new Thick line so I'm assuming it's Max VG and the flavor is excellent.

Yes db, I used KGD when I rebuilt and this head seems to be working better. I may have done something wrong though, I tend to do that...

 

[nopoison]

I've run through almost a tank so far (in almost 2 hours...ouch) and they are wicking and hitting like a champ. No dry hits at all on my Skeleton Key clone vapin Moe by Beantown. It's from their new Thick line so I'm assuming it's Max VG and the flavor is excellent.

Yes db, I used KGD when I rebuilt and this head seems to be working better. I may have done something wrong though, I tend to do that...

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That is AWESOME news!! Thanks for taking one for the team and dismantling one! I'm jealous you got yours before me and I ordered mine first!! I'm still a bit reluctant to trust it without checking one first out of my pack.

 

[Jazzman]

I've run through almost a tank so far (in almost 2 hours...ouch) and they are wicking and hitting like a champ. No dry hits at all on my Skeleton Key clone vapin Moe by Beantown. It's from their new Thick line so I'm assuming it's Max VG and the flavor is excellent.

Yes db, I used KGD when I rebuilt and this head seems to be working better. I may have done something wrong though, I tend to do that...

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Is there any differences you can tell without having to take one apart that would let you know if it is an all cotton coil or the older type. Probably not I realize, but since I just got a pack of coils delivered yesterday it would be really nice to be able to tell.

 

[MrsMojoRisin]

Is there any differences you can tell without having to take one apart that would let you know if it is an all cotton coil or the older type. Probably not I realize, but since I just got a pack of coils delivered yesterday it would be really nice to be able to tell.

Hmmm...well if you pop off the mesh screen you may be able to see the differences. Instead of the multiple layers wrapped around the original head, first the cotton wrapped around the coil and then the ceramic paper wrapped around the cotton, it is just the layers of cotton. They are layers instead of a strip. The cotton layers around the coil are also split into two separate pads in the new ones as opposed to the continuous wrap used in the original. The cotton sheath around the very outside edge is the same. I would think it is a noticeable difference, unfortunately I don't have an authentic ATL to compare to the new ones or I would post pics of the two side by side. I have a pack of Fast-tech clone ones but they look like garbage and I just threw them right into the spare parts pile, it wouldn't be a proper comparison. Hope this helps.

 

[nopoison]

Well I got my cotton heads and I have to say they are awesome so far. About a half tank in and it working great. Can't compare to the originals but that's a good thing. Compared to my horizontal rebuilds the flavor is as good and possibly a smidgen better. The thing that I'm looking for is no dry hits ever. My horizontals work great but there are times that it gets a little dry here and there and I need to do some primer pulls which I'd rather never have to deal with. We will see!!

It's a good day!! I just proposed to my lovely gf and she accepted, got my new iStick50 and the new cotton heads all in the same day! Running 30 watts with these heads and it's quite nice! Gotta break them in first at a lower wattage till the juice is really flowing..

 

[drunkenbatman]

Yes db, I used KGD when I rebuilt and this head seems to be working better. I may have done something wrong though, I tend to do that...

I don't know that you did anything wrong, that's kind of why I'm interested in their design. Cotton basically holds eliquid in the gaps between the fibers, but it doesn't wick so well at all. KGD wicks better for most purposes because the fibers are aligned, even if it's fairly dense, so eliquid is drawn along in it via capillary action better.

This generally works great in a dripper, as eliquid is brought up and in, or really well in an OCC coil (or the microcoil protanks I use, the design is almost identical with the OCC just scaled up) as the eliquid is drawn right along the fibers. In a vertical coil, the fibers are generally aligned vertically with the eliquid coming through small holes on the side... so it has to go in and sideways and up... it'll work and get there once it gets going, but probably not ideal.

With layers of porous gauze like that, I'm guessing the idea is eliquid would keep sopping right through the layers until you got to some equilibrium between surface tension of the liquid between the fibers, vacuum pressure and the weight of eliquid wanting to push its way in. I'm looking forward to seeing how that interacts with different levels of VG, etc.

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I'd comment, but every time I compliment blowing skills on here it gets reported.

 

[drunkenbatman]

Is there any differences you can tell without having to take one apart that would let you know if it is an all cotton coil or the older type. Probably not I realize, but since I just got a pack of coils delivered yesterday it would be really nice to be able to tell.

Similar to what MrsMojo said, it's been reported you can tell if you remove the metal screen, but I haven't seen any high-res top-down photos of the cotton coils so that people could look at theirs and compare the layers and know. Maybe MrsMojo or nopoison could do that?

It's a good day!! I just proposed to my lovely gf and she accepted, got my new iStick50 and the new cotton heads all in the same day! Running 30 watts with these heads and it's quite nice! Gotta break them in first at a lower wattage till the juice is really flowing..

Yay! I know a lot of the wattage requirements for the Atlantis are the coil size/design, but people might need to be careful about their headroom too. I've seen a looooot of people running the BVC coils at higher wattages where I'm pretty sure they've singed out the cotton and were running directly against the ceramics and that might not work for these. Consider trying to keep track so we can have data.

Also, the printed label on the tank is endearing, made me laugh, and feel less OCD. Thanks.

 

[Katya]

Well, well, well. Thanks Meagan and nopoison.

I like the design. Hmmm.... If they do the same with all BVC coils, I may even get a Nautilus after all.

Nopoison, I like the label on your tank.

 

[aikanae1]

I love my nautiluses.

 

[aikanae1]

Ya know, I just remembered I have a package of Fast-tech clone Atlantis coils. I'm gonna break them down and see what's in em'. You know, for funsies...

I'm super lame

I've been curious what the clones are using. I remember on the Aspire data sheet the material in question was listed as patented. What did they find to replace it or did they just say "screw it" and used all cotton?