Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

[chargingcharlie]

I want to know what it is. I've been asking the company since August.



OK. The user whose post I linked had floaters in his juice after 4 refills.



Your guess. Right.



Not any more. That was their initial explanation. Here's the later version. From the OP:

Aspire Support: •View topic - Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

The ceramic paper that has been in question here is fully incased in organic cotton, and has a screen to keep the wicking material in its place.


If this material doesn't disintegrate in normal use, why do they need to add a cotton wrap and a screen to "keep the wicking material in place"?????



Right.



It's not easy to take a look at an enclosed coil without ripping the coil head apart.

It's not about you or me--it's about what a user may do. Yes, hers is an extreme case, but it is a real world case, nonetheless.



I know you think I'm thinking about it the wrong way. We'll just have to leave it at that!

I definitely missed that explanation of the screen, so thanks for pointing that out. But my "guess" about the black gunk isn't a guess at all. A ceramic cloth (certain fiberglass cloths, too), when burned, will be a dry white in color. Anything other than that would be either the cotton wrap or burnt juice. And, for the record, I'll never call you or anyone who thinks differently about this as wrong. Nobody here is wrong until we have all of the facts. I just meant that I feel that you are thinking about the way that cotton burns (being a warning inicator) in the wrong way.


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[chargingcharlie]

That would indicate further that the material in question is NOT amorphous silica, which is safe and totally washable.

It's not speculation--it's inference.

Nobody ever said it was amorphous silica. Check out the MSDS I posted a few posts back for ceramic paper/ceramic cloth blankets. It mentions that the danger of inhalation is from long term heavy inhalation. Remember that would be inhalation of the particles, which would be drastically reduced (and possibly eliminated) when the material is wet. I'm not arguing the fact that we need to know more, or that people should be questioning the facts. I just don't think we should be making assumptions about the danger of it anymore than we should make assumptions of the safety of it. I haven't seen any solid data that makes me feel that these BVC coils are any more safe, or unsafe, than a BVC made with a wick of organic cotton.


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[jwbnyc]

Good lord! There is missing steel screen on that unit!?!?!? I can't believe you wouldn't taste that.

One thing I did notice is the fiberglass wick (I am calling it what their lab test sheet calls it) compacts after one cleaning the in the ultrasonic cleaner - I use denatured water. Was wondering in my head if its effective to do that to new coils to get any loose material out of the atomizer so it doesn't go up the coil.

I can't picture using that coil over 4 months, especially when the OP says she found material floating in the eliquid! I am quite sure that's out of spec use. And precisely an example of what people will do with an atomizer without very direct instructions.

Aspire recommends Two Weeks, 500 puffs per day.

Recommended voltage is 3.3-6V, for the Nauti, as marked on the coil.

They specifically say not to clean and not to re-use.

I've been using all three versions of the BVC adhering to these recommendations, at the recommended voltage ranges marked on the side of the coils themselves.

Since this controversy, dissection of every coil used has shown no degradation, thermal or otherwise, beyond discoloration caused by juice.

NB these are maximum recommendations.

 

[chargingcharlie]

Aspire recommends Two Weeks, 500 puffs per day.

Recommended voltage is 3.3-6V, for the Nauti, as marked on the coil.

They specifically say not to clean and not to re-use.

I've been using all three versions of the BVC adhering to these recommendations, at the recommended voltage ranges marked on the side of the coils themselves.

Since this controversy, dissection of every coil used has shown no degradation, thermal or otherwise, beyond discoloration caused by juice.

NB these are maximum recommendations.

Same here. While manufactures need to consider margins of error, we have to be responsible enough to follow recommended usage. I'm pretty sure that woman wouldn't eat a steak that was left in her fridge for 8X longer than the expiration date. And I'm absolutely baffled by the idea that she didn't taste anything nasty while vaping from a coil in that kind of shape.


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[Firecrow]

Not challenging it - can you link me to those recommendations? I'd like to read them...

Thanks

 

[chargingcharlie]

Not challenging it - can you link me to those recommendations? I'd like to read them...

Thanks

No problem. Here's their information regarding the recommended voltage for each coil Aspire - A change to the BVC coils and I'll find the info about not using them for more than two weeks in a bit. I actually had the voltage page open when I saw your post.

 

[chargingcharlie]

Here's the 2 week recommendation that is printed on every pack of BVCs

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[jwbnyc]

On their forum, they have a recommendation of "Fifty re-fills" on the Aspire, which works out to 100ml of juice.

That seems a bit high to me from my experience.

I've just been using the Nauti recs as a guideline and adjusting down for the smaller BVCs and the Aspire coils, figuring that, although the Aspire coils are larger, they are under greater stress operating at or near 30W.

 

[Coldrake]

Here's a thread that really gave me pause, because it was posted by a veteran vaper with a join date of June 2009:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nth-old-nautilus-head-looks.html#post14783893

After using that coil for 4 months and dry burning it, it doesn't surprise me in the least that it looks like that.

Just because someone has been vaping for 5 years doesn't mean that they know what they're doing. That thread is a perfect example.

 

[Racehorse]

They recommended using juice with no flavor to clear out flavor and to throw away any BVCs that have been rinsed with water.

This makes no sense to me at all.

 

[chargingcharlie]

This makes no sense to me at all.

Why not? This is pretty common for people who make their own juice. When we want to taste a new flavor we will use straight VG to clear the flavor out of a coil before tasting the new mix. It make a lot more sense than using water, don't you think?

 

[drunkenbatman]

As a reminder because half the time people are low on sleep while posting in this thread -- this issue isn't about floaters whether they are bits of burned cotton or fibers from the fiberglass/ceramic paper or a baby ruth. That's only interesting in terms of the cotton degrading or fibers migrating.

As I mentioned above, you cannot see the size of particle we're talking about. They go into your lungs because nothing can stop them, and they can't get back out as they're stabbed into the sacs and cillia can't deal.

And yeah, rinsing with water vs eliquid doesn't make any immediate sense -- all I can come up with would be total conjecture based on differences between rinsing with water (higher viscosity doesn't make sense, higher pressure maybe?). It can get wet but not rinsed -- man, that's a weird one.

 

[chargingcharlie]

As a reminder because half the time people are low on sleep while posting in this thread -- this issue isn't about floaters whether they are bits of burned cotton or fibers from the fiberglass/ceramic paper or a baby ruth.

As I mentioned above, you cannot see the size of particle we're talking about. They go into your lungs because nothing can stop them, and they can't get back out as they're stabbed into the sacs and cillia can't deal.

And yeah, rinsing with water vs eliquid doesn't make any immediate sense -- all I can come up with would be total conjecture based on differences between rinsing with water (higher viscosity doesn't make sense, higher pressure maybe?). It can get wet but not rinsed -- man, that's a weird one.

Yeah, I know the particles of concern are in the 3-5 micron range.

My guess is they say "no water" for two reasons. One being the way the water reacts to a hot coil compared to PG/VG (could it possibly cause more oxydation to the coil?) and the other being that they are probably concerned about people using tap water which could have a lot of contaminants in it.

 

[Firecrow]

Yeah, I know the particles of concern are in the 3-5 micron range.

My guess is they say "no water" for two reasons. One being the way the water reacts to a hot coil compared to PG/VG (could it possibly cause more oxydation to the coil?) and the other being that they are probably concerned about people using tap water which could have a lot of contaminants in it.

I used denatured water, or distilled water for that reason. In an ultrasonic cleaner any suspended solids will migrate to surfaces. If I use tap water in the ultrasonic cleaner a white mineral deposit forms in the tank along the water line and on whatever I am cleaning. That does not happen with denatured water.

 

[stevegmu]

Why not? This is pretty common for people who make their own juice. When we want to taste a new flavor we will use straight VG to clear the flavor out of a coil before tasting the new mix. It make a lot more sense than using water, don't you think?

When I'm testing flavors I rinse the HH 357 with water and blow out; saw it in a P. Busardo video...

 

[drunkenbatman]

So... I'm not really sure where to start with this one. Over at Eigate, they've been getting asked some really hard (and great) questions. A user wrxifie posted this snippet:

Aspire Support: •View topic - Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

Tell us more about the ceramic paper you used. Is it any different than the aluminosilicate ceramic paper described in this MSDS document here.

http://www.ceramaterials.com/images/MSDS_of_Blanket.pdf

"11. TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Epidemiological studies conducted by Institution of Human Environment Protection in China has provided no evidence that there is a direct cause-and-effect relationship between cumulative exposure to aluminosilicate fibers and lung cancers or particular pulmonary diseases.
However, recent toxicological experiments using physiological exposure method (inhalation) have produced findings of respiratory disease in rodents. Aluminosilicate refractory fiber has found to be a rodent carcinogen under the conditions that the rodents are exposed to high levels of the material (75 – 115 fibers/cc) on a basis of lifetime duration."

It also worries me that your response seems to indicate that your choice of materials is solely based on customer feedback and not scientific research. Why not stick with the ceramic paper if it's been tested as safe and reliable?

To which Eigate responded:

Dear Friends,
Thank you for your friendly concerns and suggestions.
In the development history of electronic cigarettes, people have been continually discussing the safety of materials in personal vaporizers. Currently there are no organizations or government agencies giving definite conclusions from scientific empirical tests, and this discussion is still going on.
There are some friends have doubts and fears.All the doubts and fears are due to the lack of cognition. Due to the unfamiliar and unknown on the ceramic fiber used in Atlantis atomizer.
We at aspire listen to our customers, Aspire R&D team has been researching to use the organic cotton which is widely accepted by people instead of our present material on the premise of maintaining the optimal performance and stability of our products to meet customers attention and requirements.


Best wish!

I'm trying not take "lack of cognition" personally and just as part of the chinglish, though whatever intent I plug in for it isn't great. Their answer seems to be that because no government agency or organization of scientists are saying "you should only use this and this", well then who's to say fiberglass or ceramic paper isn't safe in an ecig.

This line confuses me:

Due to the unfamiliar and unknown on the ceramic fiber used in Atlantis atomizer.

I can't tell whether they are implying people are ignorant of it's safety -- or whether everyone is ignorant as to whether it's safe, including them.

What's coming across from these messages is the strong feeling that all their testing -- the hundreds of tests they keep mentioning -- was simply R&D on whether it worked, and they have absolutely zero safety data.

 

[chargingcharlie]

The really need to have someone other than "Tina" respond to questions. She has horrible English and her "answers" often seem to raise more questions.


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[Danbrooks2k]

Meh... this whole witch hunt was started over on Reddit by a user who appears to have less than honest motives.

Old kanger coils use a synthetic wick, cartos arent organic cotton, cig-a-likes arent organic cotton, the nautilus coils arent organic cotton. But now all of a sudden the Atlantis coils contain poison fibers...


yeah.... of course they do... they are just getting bullied into making new coils that probably wont wick as well or last as long. Bet they are super excited to double profits by selling twice the amount of coils now..

Smart consumers... riiiiight...

 

[Vermiform]

Meh... this whole witch hunt was started over on Reddit by a user who appears to have less than honest motives.

I'm not challenging you on this, I would just like to know more. This is the first I have heard of this, can you expound on it?

 

[Danbrooks2k]

I'm not challenging you on this, I would just like to know more. This is the first I have heard of this, can you expound on it?

I'm just bewildered at the blatant misinformation in the post linked in the Reddit link I posted. VJoe Canada got it so wrong about the construction of the Atlantis coils and had no issue declaring them a significant health hazard. I think a retraction of their post and an apology to Aspire for spreading misinformation is in order. But that'll never happen.

A few people stirred up this whole mass hysteria... you can search the forums, youtube, and reddit.

Aspires biggest mistake is even making a statement at all. They put someone out front that does not have the best grasp of the english lanugage and it just compounds the issue and seems to give the pundits more ammunition for the sky is falling the sky is falling...