Atty Poll- Which do you use on your GLV2 5v?

[6pointprime]

Those are a problem at 5 volts. With a 1.5 ohm atty you're pushing 16.6 watts. That'll burn the juice and pop the atty coil pretty quick. I don't even use my 801 cartos at 5 volts. They have a 2.5 ohm resistance.

With a 5v regulated mod this statement would be true. However, with the GLV2 using the "5v" endcap you can absolutely use 1.5 ohm atomizers. Using a 1.5 ohm atomizer on the GLV2 with the "5v" endcap you will get closer to 12 watts.


Believe it or not the GLV2 does vary the voltage output - automatically.

Just in case you missed my show last night you can catch the replay by clicking the link below. Here's the deal: the GLV2 can use ANY atomizer without any modifications. I have tested the following atomizers:

1.5 ohm Cisco 510 and 306
2.0 ohm Cisco 510
2.7 ohm Boge/Liquid Xpress carto
3.3 ohm V4L coolcart
1.5 ohm 801 (non-Cisco)
1.8 ohm 901 (non-Cisco)

All of these atomizers on the GLV2 clock in between 10 and 11.5 watts. The GLV2 will adjust - without any changes or settings by the user - to produce a good voltage for the atomizer being used.

This was NOT intended when Great Lakes Vapor was designing the GLV2. But it works, and it works great.

For example, when using the GLV2 with the Liquid Xpress 2.7 ohm atomizer the GLV2 puts out 5.3 volts under load.

With a 3.3 ohm V4L coolcart the GLV2 puts out 5.6 volts under load.

If you put a Cisco 1.5 ohm atty on the GLV2 it puts out 4.0 volts under load.

I demonstrate this during my show - this particular segment starts at around the 20 minute mark.

This is safe, and it will not pop your atty....please note that this will NOT work with other 5v regulated mods....they WILL pop a 1.5 atty or produce a vape that is not pleasant at all.

So if you own a GLV2 (with the standard "5v" endcap) - you have yourself a swiss army knife. Enjoy using it with LR atties - it rocks!

Video by VapeTVLive: Live Recording - 02/14/2011 02:05

I uploaded a youtube video that shows how I tested several atomizers under load with the GLV2. The data is included in the description on the youtube video.

YouTube - GLV2 atomizer testing under load

-Russ

 

[Scottitude]

^ This needs to be posted someplace in general discussions where folks that don't already own a GLV can find it. It's a huge discovery, if you ask me.

I know the poll is for atties and while I've used several with consistent results (never knew why) I use standard (~3.2ohm) Boge cartos almost exclusively.

 

[keyzygirl]

This definetly NEEDS to be put in its own thread.Nobody believes me.I just got told maybe its the pixie dust that does it.PLEASE start s thread and post this.I dont want to copy and paste someone elses post,but I will if someone else doesnt.This is important stuff.

 

[Scottitude]

I agree; the revelation would carry more weight if Russ posted it and would eliminate the "oh they're just GLV fanboys/girls" rhetoric that would no doubt result if one of us shouted it from the rooftops.

Plus, I know what I saw in Russ' video and I understand there is pretty consistent wattage regardless of the atty resistance but I don't understand *why*, and just thinking about it gives me a headache.

ETA:
Russ - Can you explain the "why" behind this apparent accident?

 

[NebulaBrot]

While I am not 100% certain about what I am going to say - am no EE - but I think what you are experiencing could possibly be a factor of the batteries you are using (honestly, I did not watch the 18 minute video as I think I already understand). Resistors do not automatically adjust voltage. While an EE could explain this better:
Ohms law could be described as a mathematical formula, one for which the sides must balance. In this equation is Volts, Amps, Ohms and Watts. We have seen many posts that show the gross and overly generalized formula VxV/R=W ( I have posted it myself many times to try to help people find the atty ohms and volts they want) but that does not consider the Amps. Different batteries have different maximum Amps draw capacities. For example, I think the AW (Black with silver labels) ICR rcr123a has a max Amp draw of 1.5 amps. In the ohms law formula, any volts and ohms combo results in a certain demand for amps. If the batteries are not capable of producing the amps to satisfy Ohms Law, the equations still must balance so volts drop off until the available amps are met to balance the equation (this will be the volts under load reading you are seeing). If you use a higher Ohms atty, you will see a different volts under load.

To make a long story short - if you try the same experiment with AW IMR 16340s, you will probably pop those LR attys and get your full 5 volts --- because the IMR batts have a much higher max Amp draw capacity so Ohms law can be satisfied at pretty much any volts and ohms combo.

Hope this helps. It is the best I can explain it with my elementary appreciation of Ohms Law. If you look up Ohms Law calculators, a good one will demonstrate this. Or, possibly/hopefully an EE will chime in here and clarify.

Hope this helps.

 

[Scottitude]

Thanks, Neb'. It helps and it didn't make my head hurt or my eyes glaze over!

 

[6pointprime]

I'd like to make a full and proper reply but I received an infraction from my last posts regarding this topic from an ECF admin. I really can't post about this any further or create a new thread until I am clear on the rules here as the material that I respond with may violate the rules as my last post apparently did.

Thanks so much for your encouragement and interest. I will be glad to provide additional information as soon as possible but of course I need clarification about the rules here. I thought I was respectful with my post and the content provided but I violated the rules according to an ECF admin.

I can provide much more information to anyone interested in this topic but for now I have to do this as a series of DM-DM conversations instead of making public posts.

Thank you for your interest and understanding.

-Russ

 

[FreakyStylie]

Honestly, I use what's on sale. I never really get much of a difference, then I saw a post with a video that shows that there is really not much difference in output. Good stuff.

I find that there is more of a difference in the type of atty. I'm kind of on an 801/302 kick right now. IDK why, but I seem to get fuller vapor and more pronounced flavor, it could also be the newness of using them.

 

[QuikWgn]

I've known this since before I bought my GLV2. The 1 ohm resistor in the headcap basically adds 1 ohm to the carto/atty's own resistance. This means a 1.5ohm LR306 acts like a 2.5 ohm unit. My problem has been that when my AW's are fresh they are pushing a 4.1 -4.2v each. I'm pushing 20 ish watts of output on a standard 2.5 ohm carto(effectively 3.5 ohm with the resistor). A 1.5ohm LR306(effectively @ 2.5ohm w/resistor) is pushing over 28 watts on fresh batteries. Of course as they are used the batts start to drain both the voltage and amps begin to decrease as stated above. I've actually started using AW IMR 3.0v 16340's(the blue ones) instead of AW 3.7v 16340's(the blk/silver ones). Sometimes I also draw my batts down a bit in my Chuck with a high ohm carto and then swap them into my GLV.

Here is a GoogleDoc I made with watt output based on common mod voltages and resistance of common atty's and cartos.
Table of Watt output for mod batteries and atty/cartos common to ecig mods

These are based on the W=V²/R where W is Watts V is Voltage and R is resistance in ohms. The sweet spot in Watts is generally regarded as somewhere between 7-12w with the lower end of the range being a 'cooler' vape and the higher end a 'warmer' vape. You will notice right in the middle of this range is a 5v battery and a 2.5 ohm "standard reistance' atty/carto = 10 watts of output.

 

[6pointprime]

I've known this since before I bought my GLV2. The 1 ohm resistor in the headcap basically adds 1 ohm to the carto/atty's own resistance. This means a 1.5ohm LR306 acts like a 2.5 ohm unit. My problem has been that when my AW's are fresh they are pushing a 4.1 -4.2v each. I'm pushing 20 ish watts of output on a standard 2.5 ohm carto(effectively 3.5 ohm with the resistor). A 1.5ohm LR306(effectively @ 2.5ohm w/resistor) is pushing over 28 watts on fresh batteries.

This is incorrect. The GLV is not putting out anywhere near those figures. I did the measurements under load and did the wattage calculations. All of that information can be found here:

YouTube - GLV2 atomizer testing under load

The reason why your numbers are wildly inaccurate is because the voltage must be measured under load.

 

[QuikWgn]

I was using the actual theoretical zero loss math. I have not built another load rig yet, since I dismantled my old one, but I plan to when I get a couple days. I used to build custom load matched Ni-mh battery packs for competitive electric RC racers. I'm wondering whether with the LR atties you are exceeding the drain capacity of the AW's. I'd like to see the what the readings would be with the red IMR hi drain AW's

 

[6pointprime]

I was using the actual theoretical zero loss math. I have not built another load rig yet, since I dismantled my old one, but I plan to when I get a couple days. I used to build custom load matched Ni-mh battery packs for competitive electric RC racers.

That does not work.

Once you have built the proper equipment to do the necessary testing of voltage under load with the GLV2, you will confirm that your original figures are incorrect, and simultaneously confirm my testing/findings.

On any PV, voltage must be tested under load to get meaningful data. That is why the figures you provided...

I'm pushing 20 ish watts of output on a standard 2.5 ohm carto(effectively 3.5 ohm with the resistor). A 1.5ohm LR306(effectively @ 2.5ohm w/resistor) is pushing over 28 watts on fresh batteries.

...are wrong. The actual values ring in between 10 and 12 watts depending on the atomizer. If you test voltage under load you will confirm how your got to these inaccurate numbers.

-Russ

 

[QuikWgn]

I'm just trying to wrap my head around why adding a 1 ohm resistor does not follow Ohms law unless there is some other factor at work. I watched the youtube vid, but it doesn't make sense unless there is something else happening here.

 

[6pointprime]

I'm just trying to wrap my head around why adding a 1 ohm resistor does not follow Ohms law unless there is some other factor at work. I watched the youtube vid, but it doesn't make sense unless there is something else happening here.

It works and has been tested and confirmed by other users, including Jaybird (the guy who made the GLV2).

I will do further testing on Saturday with high drain batteries as originally suggested by Nebulabrot to see if that battery type changes the figures.

Until then....my figures are correct in the configuration that I tested with (which is the battery set sold and recommended by GLV2) and your figures are wrong.

 

[QuikWgn]

I'm not disputing your figures so you can stop with the 'your wrong' bs. What I am trying to figure out is why basic electrical theory is not holding true in this case. Simply put adding an additional ohm of resistance alone does not explain the results of your test. I know who Jay is and I've spoken to him a number of times by phone. In fact my first 5v headcap was damaged by the postal service in transit and Jay rebuilt it for me. I'm just trying to figure out why the circuit is not responding in accordance with ohm's law. I'm done....

 

[NebulaBrot]

I'm just trying to wrap my head around why adding a 1 ohm resistor does not follow Ohms law unless there is some other factor at work. I watched the youtube vid, but it doesn't make sense unless there is something else happening here.

It completely DOES work according to Ohms law - it has to. Unless the batts have the ability to push the amps demanded by the volts and ohms combo, there is voltage drop off until the equations are satisfied by the available amps. This is NOT automatic variable voltage, this is probably voltage drop off using batts that cannot drive the amps needed by the combo.

Try some of these: on-line ohms law calculator - Google Search
You will see that 5 volts and a 1.5 ohms atty demands 3.333 amps. If you are using a batt that can supply the 3.33 amps (like the AW IMR), you will get the full 5 volts - and probably pop the LR atty. If using the black and silver AW ICR rcr123a batts - these can only put out max 1.5 amps. If you put in 1.5 amps and 1.5 resistance you see volts drop. This is NOT automatic variable voltage. The underload readings are misleading because they do not show limited available amps are pulling down the volts. Use the AW IMR batts and you will see very different results from what is being posted.

Of course, you CAN use the ICR batts and get these results (voltage drop-off) but to say that GLV2 is "automatically" adjusting voltage to the attys is misleading, incorrect, and irresponsible posting. Sorry 6point, but the device (and/or the resistor) is NOT doing it. The results posted are a direct result of ohms law. I appreciate you willingness to share information with others, and your attempts to educate, but you are posting incomplete information.

 

[6pointprime]

What I am trying to figure out is why basic electrical theory is not holding true in this case.

Basic electrical theory? Do you mean the basic electrical theory that led you to the following conclusion:

My problem has been that when my AW's are fresh they are pushing a 4.1 -4.2v each. I'm pushing 20 ish watts of output on a standard 2.5 ohm carto(effectively 3.5 ohm with the resistor).

No....you are actually pushing out about half of that wattage with the GLV2 in that configuration.

I'm just trying to figure out why the circuit is not responding in accordance with ohm's law.

Ohm's law is just that - a law. It always works.

Given that your "understanding" of "basic electrical theory" resulted in you making wildly inaccurate conclusions in the past, I think it's time to place a safe bet here:

The reason why you are having trouble figuring out what is happening in the circuit is based on errors in your understanding of electronics.....as opposed to you coming to the conclusion that

the circuit is not responding in accordance with ohm's law.

Again - Ohm's Law always works.

More actual data will be coming soon.....with amp measurements.....but of course if you can do this yourself go right ahead. If not, you will wait for me or someone else to do it.

 

[6pointprime]

This is NOT automatic variable voltage, this is probably voltage drop off using batts that cannot drive the amps needed by the combo.

I think that is the case - I will confirm this with additional testing this weekend.

This is NOT automatic variable voltage. The underload readings are misleading because they do not show limited available amps are pulling down the volts. Use the AW IMR batts and you will see very different results from what is being posted.

I will do this testing - and post the results.

to say that GLV2 is "automatically" adjusting voltage to the attys is misleading, incorrect, untrue and irresponsible posting.

Okay. I'll buy that. The adjectives that you chose are hilarious, but you are correct that my original description is not a wholly accurate description.

For now I'll just say that the GLV2 with the "5V" endcap puts out different voltages under load depending on the load....by my tests, anywhere between almost 6V and under 4V. This allows for using a wide range of atomizers, including Cisco LR 1.5 ohm atomizers on the GLV2 with this specific configuration (including the AW RCR123A batteries that are supplied by GLV2).

I agree with you and I think this is due to the available current on the batteries being used - but I will reserve final judgement until I test it myself and collect the data.

 

[QuikWgn]

It completely DOES work according to Ohms law - it has to. Unless the batts have the ability to push the amps demanded by the volts and ohms combo, there is voltage drop off until the equations are satisfied by the available amps. This is NOT automatic variable voltage, this is probably voltage drop off using batts that cannot drive the amps needed by the combo.

Try some of these: on-line ohms law calculator - Google Search
You will see that 5 volts and a 1.5 ohms atty demands 3.333 amps. If you are using a batt that can supply the 3.33 amps (like the AW IMR), you will get the full 5 volts - and probably pop the LR atty. If using the black and silver AW ICR rcr123a batts - these can only put out max 1.5 amps. If you put in 1.5 amps and 1.5 resistance you see volts drop. This is NOT automatic variable voltage. The underload readings are misleading because they do not show limited available amps are pulling down the volts. Use the AW IMR batts and you will see very different results from what is being posted.

Of course, you CAN use the ICR batts and get these results (voltage drop-off) but to say that GLV2 is "automatically" adjusting voltage to the attys is misleading, incorrect, and irresponsible posting. Sorry 6point, but the device (and/or the resistor) is NOT doing it. The results posted are a direct result of ohms law. I appreciate you willingness to share information with others, and your attempts to educate, but you are posting incomplete information.

This is in line with what I'm saying. I used the calculator to double check my figures, using the calculator here. Assuming of course that the batts, switch etc can flow the amps required my numbers are correct. I said I was using zero loss math with the formula W=V²/R and not actual numbers derived/measured under load. However at this point I'm done clarifying myself.

 

[6pointprime]

Assuming of course that the batts, switch etc can flow the amps required my numbers are correct.

Well...that assumption is not true - which is why your numbers are incorrect. They are completely useless numbers, because they do not hold any relevance in any reality where any PV would be used. Basically what those numbers reflect is that you decided to conclude that

My problem has been that when my AW's are fresh they are pushing a 4.1 -4.2v each. I'm pushing 20 ish watts of output on a standard 2.5 ohm carto(effectively 3.5 ohm with the resistor). A 1.5ohm LR306(effectively @ 2.5ohm w/resistor) is pushing over 28 watts on fresh batteries.

and the reason why you concluded that is because you decided (forgot?) to factor in that you are using a....drumroll please....Personal Vaporizer!

You made a statement about the conditions that you are getting when using a GLV2 but intentionally disregarded the actual characteristics of the GLV2. Why you chose not to do this, or why you feel the need to clarify that omission is a great mystery.

Unless you just didn't know any better....in that case mystery solved.