Australian ban; Egar illegal
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This is very sad news indeed. Those who have emailed the health minister - do keep us informed as to the replies you receive. The desire to regulate the behaviour of adults around the world in remarkably small-minded and priggish ways seems to be reaching epic proportions globally. It's a damn shame.
G'day Guys, well what an eventful day its been , I have been on the phone for quite a bit discussing the ramifications ... Might be time we took stock of the salient facts I can confirm
these are :
- Retailers were informed of the decision at approximately at 10 am 31/12/08 that the retail sale of nicotine intended for human consumption would be in contravention of the scheduled drug act, Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances Act 1981 Sections 12G and 12K, as from midnight on the 31st of December 2008 and that all sales after that cutoff would be punishable.
- Quoted from the Victorian Premiers website Media Release
"The Victorian Government has banned the sale and use of a battery-powered cigarette.
While the device does not contain tobacco, it resembles a traditional cigarette and will not be able to be marketed in Victoria as it will be illegal to sell the nicotine cartridges. "
So there will be no sale of the units after Jan 1st 09... it is not clear however on the usage of units purchased BEFORE that date
-It continues..
"The new regulation, to come into effect from 1 January 2009, outlaws the manufacture, sale, supply, purchase, possession or use of nicotine delivery systems for humans that are classified as Schedule 7 poisons, as these products have not been assessed for quality or safety.
Again appear initially to refer to units after the date , I must add that in the actual modifications to the Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances Act 1981 Sections 12G and 12K which can be found here Poisons code: Drugs and poisons in Victoria - Victorian Government Health Information, Australia There is no mention of any modification in the legislation to "outlaws the manufacture, sale, supply, purchase, possession or use of nicotine delivery systems for humans "
This may be in evidence elsewhere but I cannot find reference to it.
Well fellow Aussies, and indeed ALL vapers, we have two choices, put up or shut up !!!
We can roll over and go .. oh well.. such is life.. or we unite to try and make our case heard
Of everything on the boards I think SATIRES last post in this thread pretty much sums up the whole issue ...
WE DO NOT HAVE THE NUMBERS , So it is up to us to make sure the cry is LONG and LOUD ... if you want to have even the slightest hope of change? Even then its not guaranteed a quarter of 1%
There is a possible way of dealing with this , in a legal and moral sense , that is being investigated, and may possibly require your help in the not too distant future
I will point out that I am NOT a retailer , supplier, and have no vested interest in our vaping industry beyond the fact that I KNOW this is the BEST way for me to breaak my ties with tobacco and it is going to be taken away from me....I very rarely give out information on my personal situation via the internet, But after a motorcycling accident in 2003 I am now a Disability Pensioner, as a result of this I was made redundant from my employer of 20 years as we both knew I would never be physically capable of re-entering the workforce, resulting in the loss of my income stream , the house I only had 5 years left to pay off, my relationship at the time, and a fair degree of my mobility ....My life certainly changed ... I didn't buckle in , I turned all the negatives into the best positive I could make it into , I relocated, bought my place in the country free and clear, and set about making myself as independent as I could be, financially and personally .... the one major problem was my smoking... not for health reasons ( hell all the doctors I have seen over the last few years and they are all amazed I do as well as I can bodywise ) but for me , living on a Govt Pension isn't easy, I cant do a homer here and there and I WONT do a shifty for some beers and smokes lol . I wasnt a huge drinker so THAT bit was easy to forgo... but the SMOKES ... MAN they had me... Sometimes it comes down to do you want to eat, or smoke??? luckily for me I run a few sheep, chooks and a vegie patch !!
Vaping was my way out of the " Voluntary Taxation " of Tobacco here in Australia when you have an income of $250 a week .... taking $90 out of it for a carton of smokes was painful... there are those of you on the forum might not believe this, but the vaping I have been doing , apart from the set-up costs was going to be around $10 a week THAT I could have afforded... now it appear I have outlaid this initially expensive ( well for me anyway ) set-up cost .... to gain ... well nothing really ... less healthy ( and yes I know I said I was doing ok , but all smokers will pay the price eventually .. I knew it was stalking me lol )... back to a high priced addiction... back to wondering which bill wont get paid this week ... so you see for me , this wasnt just a hobby to be toyed with , it was a definite attempt to break the final bonds of the financial pressures I didn't ask for but find myself facing..... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr lol
-
these are :
- Retailers were informed of the decision at approximately at 10 am 31/12/08 that the retail sale of nicotine intended for human consumption would be in contravention of the scheduled drug act, Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances Act 1981 Sections 12G and 12K, as from midnight on the 31st of December 2008 and that all sales after that cutoff would be punishable.
- Quoted from the Victorian Premiers website Media Release
"The Victorian Government has banned the sale and use of a battery-powered cigarette.
While the device does not contain tobacco, it resembles a traditional cigarette and will not be able to be marketed in Victoria as it will be illegal to sell the nicotine cartridges. "
So there will be no sale of the units after Jan 1st 09... it is not clear however on the usage of units purchased BEFORE that date
-It continues..
"The new regulation, to come into effect from 1 January 2009, outlaws the manufacture, sale, supply, purchase, possession or use of nicotine delivery systems for humans that are classified as Schedule 7 poisons, as these products have not been assessed for quality or safety.
Again appear initially to refer to units after the date , I must add that in the actual modifications to the Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances Act 1981 Sections 12G and 12K which can be found here Poisons code: Drugs and poisons in Victoria - Victorian Government Health Information, Australia There is no mention of any modification in the legislation to "outlaws the manufacture, sale, supply, purchase, possession or use of nicotine delivery systems for humans "
This may be in evidence elsewhere but I cannot find reference to it.
Well fellow Aussies, and indeed ALL vapers, we have two choices, put up or shut up !!!
We can roll over and go .. oh well.. such is life.. or we unite to try and make our case heard
Of everything on the boards I think SATIRES last post in this thread pretty much sums up the whole issue ...
WE DO NOT HAVE THE NUMBERS , So it is up to us to make sure the cry is LONG and LOUD ... if you want to have even the slightest hope of change? Even then its not guaranteed a quarter of 1%
There is a possible way of dealing with this , in a legal and moral sense , that is being investigated, and may possibly require your help in the not too distant future
I will point out that I am NOT a retailer , supplier, and have no vested interest in our vaping industry beyond the fact that I KNOW this is the BEST way for me to breaak my ties with tobacco and it is going to be taken away from me....I very rarely give out information on my personal situation via the internet, But after a motorcycling accident in 2003 I am now a Disability Pensioner, as a result of this I was made redundant from my employer of 20 years as we both knew I would never be physically capable of re-entering the workforce, resulting in the loss of my income stream , the house I only had 5 years left to pay off, my relationship at the time, and a fair degree of my mobility ....My life certainly changed ... I didn't buckle in , I turned all the negatives into the best positive I could make it into , I relocated, bought my place in the country free and clear, and set about making myself as independent as I could be, financially and personally .... the one major problem was my smoking... not for health reasons ( hell all the doctors I have seen over the last few years and they are all amazed I do as well as I can bodywise ) but for me , living on a Govt Pension isn't easy, I cant do a homer here and there and I WONT do a shifty for some beers and smokes lol . I wasnt a huge drinker so THAT bit was easy to forgo... but the SMOKES ... MAN they had me... Sometimes it comes down to do you want to eat, or smoke??? luckily for me I run a few sheep, chooks and a vegie patch !!
Vaping was my way out of the " Voluntary Taxation " of Tobacco here in Australia when you have an income of $250 a week .... taking $90 out of it for a carton of smokes was painful... there are those of you on the forum might not believe this, but the vaping I have been doing , apart from the set-up costs was going to be around $10 a week THAT I could have afforded... now it appear I have outlaid this initially expensive ( well for me anyway ) set-up cost .... to gain ... well nothing really ... less healthy ( and yes I know I said I was doing ok , but all smokers will pay the price eventually .. I knew it was stalking me lol )... back to a high priced addiction... back to wondering which bill wont get paid this week ... so you see for me , this wasnt just a hobby to be toyed with , it was a definite attempt to break the final bonds of the financial pressures I didn't ask for but find myself facing..... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr lol
-
Wow. This shouldn't surprise me but...it does. It's happened so quick.I feel for you guys. I suppose the clock is ticking down for the rest of us, too.
Good luck & I hope something works out for you all!
Well stuff it! We are Aussie's So no way in hell are we walking away from this guys! Eureka Stockade Let get the ball rolling, tell everyone whats up and we will meet back friday once I hear back from a QC I will be seeing. It may take a week but I will get all the info. And we will remind them that we FREE man and women and will not have our rights stuffed with. I have been told we may have a great case of the state goverment over steping its "power" and our rights. I will get all the details, but guys stay ticked off and lets give it to them. Aussie Aussie Aussie
Mark
Mark
Happy New Year folkssssss
Sigh New Years Eve and I'm on a forum now im REALLY depressed LMAO
(despite what the mongrels are doing
)
Sigh New Years Eve and I'm on a forum now im REALLY depressed LMAO
(despite what the mongrels are doing
)
Other than outright rebellion against the anti smoking movement, there is no recourse. The movement must be strong and it must start NOW. Here's one such effort. There are many others. If you want to gain back your rights, you cannot separate yourselves from tobacco smokers. You must join with them.
1st WORLD CONFERENCE AGAINST PROHIBITION
The TICAP organization has been working long and hard to create a milestone conference: the 1st International Conference Against Prohibition, by the title “Smoking Bans and Lies”. This conference – hopefully the first one of a triad that will concern food control and the upcoming alcohol repression – is the beginning of a properly organized, funded and structured political action – stemming from grass-root instead of special commercial interests, such as those of Big Tobacco – to oppose the otherwise inevitable outcome of the current international historical trend: the prohibition of tobacco and the full criminalization of its users.
It is now glaringly clear that the dangerous mentality of zero tolerance, prohibition and lifestyle control has been embraced by governments. That mentality, steadily fueled by the pharmaceutical giants and the World Health Organization, is based on relentless propaganda and false scientific information by health institutions all over the world. The institutions of public health have undergone a transformation before our eyes: they have changed from entities providing care for patients to ideological centres that impose non-scientific beliefs, behaviour control and – literally – blackmail (as in denial of medical attention) on those who do not share a philosophical view that health trumps all rights and realities, including personal liberties, economies, and even real science.
The extreme danger coming from that mentality – a 21st century version of the Nazi mentality – need not be described here since the results have been thoroughly documented in history books. It is sufficient to say that the conference itself was difficult to organize because of the fear instilled in private entities and even the press when showing disagreement with the public health establishment on policies and ideology. Public health institutions and its political drones do not hesitate to use slander and libel, all kind of reprisals and vicious ad hominem attacks in a display of ideological fanaticism that once again is reminiscent of bygone totalitarian times. Today's public health is totally unrelated to science, civility or peaceful coexistence between citizens of different values and persuasions. Public health openly promotes hatred and contempt for citizens who drink, smoke or who are fat, institutionalized under the process of “social denormalization” .
Those are the reasons why this conference is exceedingly important. Those are the reasons why YOU must participate. Click here and subscribe. Click here and sponsor. Click here and donate (we will turn your donation to TICAP). We must restore institutions to their original mandates and integrity, so that we can live in freedom and peace. We must do that for ourselves and for future generations. You can afford to ignore this conference only if you think that it is right that, one day soon, the lifestyle police will knock at your door (or smash it open!) to check your fridge for the proper food and your place for illegal alcohol and tobacco – and even to check if your dog is too fat and has been walked "property", and that's no joke.
1st WORLD CONFERENCE AGAINST PROHIBITION
The TICAP organization has been working long and hard to create a milestone conference: the 1st International Conference Against Prohibition, by the title “Smoking Bans and Lies”. This conference – hopefully the first one of a triad that will concern food control and the upcoming alcohol repression – is the beginning of a properly organized, funded and structured political action – stemming from grass-root instead of special commercial interests, such as those of Big Tobacco – to oppose the otherwise inevitable outcome of the current international historical trend: the prohibition of tobacco and the full criminalization of its users.
It is now glaringly clear that the dangerous mentality of zero tolerance, prohibition and lifestyle control has been embraced by governments. That mentality, steadily fueled by the pharmaceutical giants and the World Health Organization, is based on relentless propaganda and false scientific information by health institutions all over the world. The institutions of public health have undergone a transformation before our eyes: they have changed from entities providing care for patients to ideological centres that impose non-scientific beliefs, behaviour control and – literally – blackmail (as in denial of medical attention) on those who do not share a philosophical view that health trumps all rights and realities, including personal liberties, economies, and even real science.
The extreme danger coming from that mentality – a 21st century version of the Nazi mentality – need not be described here since the results have been thoroughly documented in history books. It is sufficient to say that the conference itself was difficult to organize because of the fear instilled in private entities and even the press when showing disagreement with the public health establishment on policies and ideology. Public health institutions and its political drones do not hesitate to use slander and libel, all kind of reprisals and vicious ad hominem attacks in a display of ideological fanaticism that once again is reminiscent of bygone totalitarian times. Today's public health is totally unrelated to science, civility or peaceful coexistence between citizens of different values and persuasions. Public health openly promotes hatred and contempt for citizens who drink, smoke or who are fat, institutionalized under the process of “social denormalization” .
Those are the reasons why this conference is exceedingly important. Those are the reasons why YOU must participate. Click here and subscribe. Click here and sponsor. Click here and donate (we will turn your donation to TICAP). We must restore institutions to their original mandates and integrity, so that we can live in freedom and peace. We must do that for ourselves and for future generations. You can afford to ignore this conference only if you think that it is right that, one day soon, the lifestyle police will knock at your door (or smash it open!) to check your fridge for the proper food and your place for illegal alcohol and tobacco – and even to check if your dog is too fat and has been walked "property", and that's no joke.
Sorry to post this in two places, but it really belongs here:
I think, in the long run, we are going to have to settle for compromises if our devices and practice are to remain legal.
We need to acknowledge that nicotine is a drug. We became addicted to it by smoking tobacco, many at a time when the health hazards of smoking were not yet clear. We now want an alterntive to inhaling carcinogenic smoke. We need to promote e-smoking as a healthier addiction-maintainance method. That is practiced with other drugs, like .......
We need to accept regulated liquid (and stop calling it "juice" we get from "dealers"). Unlabelled bottles of unknown chemicals designed for consumption and made in China will not win over regulators. We can and must expect to pay more for a product with assured safety.
We need to abandon the term "cigarette". These must be sold as personal vaporizers for delivery of medicinal substances (even prescribed drugs for inhalation therapy). These devices should move away from the appearance of cigarettes. Some makers are on the right track; most buyers are not. Vaporizers (nebulizers) are legal. We will use a small, personal vaporizer.
Accept whatever regulation is needed to childproof and petproof these. Accept whatever labelling is required. Accept inspection by Customs and fees that must be paid. Demand a stop to fraudulent labelling and value assertions on Chinese shipments.
I've followed, and practiced, e-smoking for almost a year now, and the misleading claims of MOST sellers and manufacturers are bringing the house down on them. It is their fault and they deserve to fail. But the good guys and girls must now pick up the banner and move vaporziing nicotine to a legal level.
If this is not done, yes, e-smoking in danger everywhere on earth.
I think, in the long run, we are going to have to settle for compromises if our devices and practice are to remain legal.
We need to acknowledge that nicotine is a drug. We became addicted to it by smoking tobacco, many at a time when the health hazards of smoking were not yet clear. We now want an alterntive to inhaling carcinogenic smoke. We need to promote e-smoking as a healthier addiction-maintainance method. That is practiced with other drugs, like .......
We need to accept regulated liquid (and stop calling it "juice" we get from "dealers"). Unlabelled bottles of unknown chemicals designed for consumption and made in China will not win over regulators. We can and must expect to pay more for a product with assured safety.
We need to abandon the term "cigarette". These must be sold as personal vaporizers for delivery of medicinal substances (even prescribed drugs for inhalation therapy). These devices should move away from the appearance of cigarettes. Some makers are on the right track; most buyers are not. Vaporizers (nebulizers) are legal. We will use a small, personal vaporizer.
Accept whatever regulation is needed to childproof and petproof these. Accept whatever labelling is required. Accept inspection by Customs and fees that must be paid. Demand a stop to fraudulent labelling and value assertions on Chinese shipments.
I've followed, and practiced, e-smoking for almost a year now, and the misleading claims of MOST sellers and manufacturers are bringing the house down on them. It is their fault and they deserve to fail. But the good guys and girls must now pick up the banner and move vaporziing nicotine to a legal level.
If this is not done, yes, e-smoking in danger everywhere on earth.
This really blows. A days notice?
And the worst part is its Australia, a developed country! Now more and more developing countries can claim to follow the footsteps of a developed country and ban e-cigs! Hey, if Australia did it, then we should too! Less impact if a country like say Cambodia banned it...
Wow, Dodo....$9000? If thats the cost of your goods, I can't imagine what the retail value is? Do suppliers even stock that much? I really hope it goes well for you. Keep us updated.
And the worst part is its Australia, a developed country! Now more and more developing countries can claim to follow the footsteps of a developed country and ban e-cigs! Hey, if Australia did it, then we should too! Less impact if a country like say Cambodia banned it...
Wow, Dodo....$9000? If thats the cost of your goods, I can't imagine what the retail value is? Do suppliers even stock that much? I really hope it goes well for you. Keep us updated.
You all really have my sympathy. I only discovered e-cigs a few weeks ago and although I haven't yet completely quit analogues, I'm fairly sure I'm going to over the next couple of weeks.
This news from Oz has meant me placing a very large order for juice today just in case something similar happens here in the UK.
I was wondering if you had anything similar to F.O.R.E.S.T. in Australia, who might be willing to help someway in fighting this ban.
Julie
This news from Oz has meant me placing a very large order for juice today just in case something similar happens here in the UK.
I was wondering if you had anything similar to F.O.R.E.S.T. in Australia, who might be willing to help someway in fighting this ban.
Julie
Like Joolz, I want to start stocking up but the budget says NO!
As soon as I sort my credit card bills at the end of January I'm hoping that Intellicig will have the new products available and this will be my vape of choice.
I Believe that it will only be a matter of time before the powers that be decide that our new 'lifestyle' will not make them any money. How on earth are they going to deny us medical assistance when they have no alleged statistics to back up their claims?
As soon as I sort my credit card bills at the end of January I'm hoping that Intellicig will have the new products available and this will be my vape of choice.
I Believe that it will only be a matter of time before the powers that be decide that our new 'lifestyle' will not make them any money. How on earth are they going to deny us medical assistance when they have no alleged statistics to back up their claims?
I see that too TBob and I hope the buggers get what's coming for their cynical profiteering. With a bit of luck the good ones like Puresmoker, Ecigs.co.uk, Thesmokelessshop and others who don't make us all look like dummies will survive and prosper.
All the best to you Aussies, lets try to stick together and see if we can beat this heavy handed action.
I can see how they can ban toxic nicotine but the devices ... well, that's a whole other degree of 'protection'
I've been rolling my smokes for over 10 years and smoking for over 15. I have gotten asthma and chronic bronchitis over the last 5 which did not even slow my smoking. I never thought i'd be able to quit.
I've been only vaping for little over a month and i am all ready smoke free. I'm very scared and sure that the ban will come here. My lungs are just starting to heal. I'm only 29 and could barely breath with out an inhaler. I wake up not able to breath, which makes me scared to go to sleep. I can't go back to tobacco, it will kill me.
If the governments adopt this ban without any evidence and for tax money then they probably won't care about our cry's. I think the best thing for me to do is stock up for now.
Like Smokin, i don't have a lot of money after the holidays to stock up on supply's. Are there suppliers that sell a good liquid in large quantities?
Maybe I'm getting ahead of my self. Maybe the rest of the world has some time before more bans, I just don't feel it. I'd rather be prepared. I've also read a lot about people looking into a good recipe for homemade liquid, has anyone found one yet?
This thread has had me up all night, I'm really afraid that if i wait to get ready it will be too late.
I've been only vaping for little over a month and i am all ready smoke free. I'm very scared and sure that the ban will come here. My lungs are just starting to heal. I'm only 29 and could barely breath with out an inhaler. I wake up not able to breath, which makes me scared to go to sleep. I can't go back to tobacco, it will kill me.
If the governments adopt this ban without any evidence and for tax money then they probably won't care about our cry's. I think the best thing for me to do is stock up for now.
Like Smokin, i don't have a lot of money after the holidays to stock up on supply's. Are there suppliers that sell a good liquid in large quantities?
Maybe I'm getting ahead of my self. Maybe the rest of the world has some time before more bans, I just don't feel it. I'd rather be prepared. I've also read a lot about people looking into a good recipe for homemade liquid, has anyone found one yet?
This thread has had me up all night, I'm really afraid that if i wait to get ready it will be too late.
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Geeze, this is just ridiculous. I for one don't want to stand back and watch this happen. I think since this is the largest community of e-vapers (sp? we need something different than e-smokers) we should come up with a way to collectively speak to government, get testing, and inform consumers of the FACTS. I was thinking a new website? Righttovape.com is available . This forum is great to learn and share, but we need something to speak out and educate the masses. Perhaps the 2 sites could go hand in hand as the top sources for e-cigs. Do you suppose any anti-smoking groups would jump on board (i.e. abovetheinfluence.com)? Any thoughts?
. This forum is great to learn and share, but we need something to speak out and educate the masses. Perhaps the 2 sites could go hand in hand as the top sources for e-cigs. Do you suppose any anti-smoking groups would jump on board (i.e. abovetheinfluence.com)? Any thoughts?Oh, get ready for that and a whole lotta other really intrusive stuff. They'll make laws on the spot or even retroactively. No trial, no jury, just straight to Guantanamo or its equivilent.
First off, they're going to ban e-liquid, vaporizers, and any and all "paraphanalia" (and the SWAT team officer will get to decide what paraphanalia is based on very brooooooaaaaad-based laws regarding the defintions). All e-smoking's going to be labeled as eco-terrorism. This'll be Patriot Act XX.
Then we will get a complete criminalization of tobacco. Good way to broaden the war on drugs.
Then they're going to go after caffeine-regulation. It's already happening with energy drinks and caffeine-added booze & beer. Then other types of caffeine drinks. That'll be done in the name of "safeguarding the children."
Then it'll be right back to booze just like prohibition times.
Beyond that, it'll be nutrition-control, extreme sports, anything else deemed "risky behavior." It's the type of thing that raised "everyone's insurance premiums," and is just dangerous to society.
Somewhere in the middle will be free speech (thought crime).
Because it's important to criminalize as many people as possible, in the end it'll be a crime (or at least a taxable offense) even to be alive. That'll be referred to as the carbon tax. Your "carbon footprint" is just too big because you're expelling 2nd hand CO2 everytime you take a breath.
This will be everywhere, including the U.S. and Europe. The shock to me is that Australia is taking such a bold step forward with it. The Aussie always seemed to be such free people to me back in the day. Then again, I always thought America was land of the free also.
Guess I thought wrong. Hope I'm wrong about all of the above.
JamesD
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