Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[stevegmu]

Do people still wear watches?

Yes. Watches and shoes are what eligible ladies in civilized societies look at first when deciding whether or not they will mate with a gentleman they meet in certain social situations- like at a pub or club. I have a nice collection of fine watches and shoes...

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Yes. Watches and shoes are what eligible ladies in civilized societies look at first when deciding whether or not they will mate with a gentleman they meet in certain social situations- like at a pub or club. I have a nice collection of fine watches and shoes...

Usually the kind of eligible ladies someone would meet in a pub or club are not worthy of more than one evening. The things you'd catch from those type of ladies are another thread on another forum.

 

[Davey59]

Usually the kind of eligible ladies someone would meet in a pub or club are not worthy of more than one evening. The things you'd catch from those type of ladies are another thread on another forum.

Hear that ladies? heh.

 

[bluecat]

Yes. Watches and shoes are what eligible ladies in civilized societies look at first when deciding whether or not they will mate with a gentleman they meet in certain social situations- like at a pub or club. I have a nice collection of fine watches and shoes...

Never need a watch collection. I do however have a fine pictorial that I won't share. Funny though the ladies never looked at my watch.

 

[bluecat]

LOL. I rarely use a phone for time (not even sure if my flip phone shows the time ), but I have not worn a watch for a decade. Wall clocks, clocks in the microwave, the TV, the car, computers, the thermostat, the stove and I'm sure a few more are all I ever need.

Back OT. So, has anyone been sued yet?

They have been. You can be sued for almost anything. One reason insurance is so danged high. I think we will have to wait until 2015 for any decisions.

 

[tj99959]

No one has ever sued me because I was barefoot and didn't have a watch on.

 

[bluecat]

No one has ever sued me because I was barefoot and didn't have a watch on.

You were at the wrong pub/bar then.

Enjoy.

Legally Weird: Strange Lawsuits Archives

 

[rolygate]

I don't know if it's been said yet as I sure ain't gonna read 2,000 pages or whatever this thread is: but the entire ecig world is built on clones. Everything you use is a straightup copy/clone/counterfeit unless you're vaping on a Ruyan, Janty or Joyetech genuine product (more or less).

So maybe the real argument is where the pricepoint comes when you say, "They robbed me". Looks to me as if people are just complaining about $200 items being copied, not the 2 billion dollars' worth of 'everyday' copies. There's something about that that seems wrong to me - either it's all wrong or it's all OK.

Mind you, every designer and manufacturer should protect their rights in law by using the appropriate registrations. After that, copying is a crime, and there's no argument. If people don't protect their rights, then clearly they don't care, and it's all fair game. You can't complain if the guy down the road copies your stuff, when you couldn't be bothered to protect it. It means the design was worthless to you - so what do you expect.

Registered = protected = copying is a crime (or wrong, if you prefer).
Unregistered = anyone can freely copy it whenever they like.

 

[TheProphet]

No one has ever sued me because I was barefoot and didn't have a watch on.

No one has ever sued me for wearing a knock off watch or knock off Vans either.

 

[Jman8]

I don't know if it's been said yet as I sure ain't gonna read 2,000 pages or whatever this thread is: but the entire ecig world is built on clones. Everything you use is a straightup copy/clone/counterfeit unless you're vaping on a Ruyan, Janty or Joyetech genuine product (more or less).

You are saying the entire eCig world is built on 1:1 copies of both design and utility function for all products currently existing?

So maybe the real argument is where the pricepoint comes when you say, "They robbed me". Looks to me as if people are just complaining about $200 items being copied, not the 2 billion dollars' worth of 'everyday' copies. There's something about that that seems wrong to me - either it's all wrong or it's all OK.

All cloning is a form of theft. I am okay living on a planet where cloning exists but also curious why users of clones, who were not deceived that it was a 1:1 copy that they purchased, do not realize that they made a deal that involved theft and are part of that theft process.

Mind you, every designer and manufacturer should protect their rights in law by using the appropriate registrations. After that, copying is a crime, and there's no argument. If people don't protect their rights, then clearly they don't care, and it's all fair game. You can't complain if the guy down the road copies your stuff, when you couldn't be bothered to protect it. It means the design was worthless to you - so what do you expect.

Registered = protected = copying is a crime (or wrong, if you prefer).
Unregistered = anyone can freely copy it whenever they like.

Coldrake has, at least twice, posted pertinent information that counters this sort of reasoning. It's also rather easy to poke holes in this logic when realizing that one business of the medium size or lower is not going to get all 'appropriate registrations' for worldwide distribution. So, if I am smart thief distributor, I would just go see what is currently popular in another country, steal that design, mass produce it myself in my country and perhaps other countries where that design is not 'protected' and claim myself the originator in all those countries of that design. While also plausibly creating the impression that worldwide, I am the originator of that design. There may be intellectual disagreements with such a claim, but who cares? No one will ever sue me and I'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Davey59]

I don't know if it's been said yet as I sure ain't gonna read 2,000 pages or whatever this thread is: but the entire ecig world is built on clones. Everything you use is a straightup copy/clone/counterfeit unless you're vaping on a Ruyan, Janty or Joyetech genuine product (more or less).

So maybe the real argument is where the pricepoint comes when you say, "They robbed me". Looks to me as if people are just complaining about $200 items being copied, not the 2 billion dollars' worth of 'everyday' copies. There's something about that that seems wrong to me - either it's all wrong or it's all OK.

.

Yes, Hon Lik was even mentioned but it went nowhere. I think we all know why.

 

[bluecat]

Yes, Hon Lik was even mentioned but it went nowhere. I think we all know why.

Prior to him was Herbert Gilbert... well the patent ran out anyway.. so that is null and void. Which incidentally was big tobacco.

 

[Davey59]

Prior to him was Herbert Gilbert... well the patent ran out anyway.. so that is null and void. Which incidentally was big tobacco.

I think I remember reading something about him, but it is Hon Lik that holds the patent for the modern clearomizers. I would bet big money that no one is carrying a list of manufactures that paid him and ONLY buy these models. AND the ones that did put up a huge fight and had to be forced.

Sure, this has MOSTLY been a debate about flashlight battery tubes and legal "when applicable" trademark but there is a degree of hypocrisy going on as to supporting theft.

 

[rolygate]

You are saying the entire eCig world is built on 1:1 copies of both design and utility function for all products currently existing?

More or less. Who can tell if a CE4 is an original or a copy? They all look identical and work identical. Who can tell if an eGo is an original or a copy? They all look identical and work identical. (Sort of.) Who knows if a carto is a Kanger original or a copy? Not me. Tell me if a 510 atty is original or not. Who invented it anyway. It's all copied.

Vaping is built on copies. What I can't understand is why people complain about mechmod clones but nothing else. That stumps me. Is it the price? But that is opposite to the reality: 100,000 bucks worth of mechmod clones doesn't even come close to $100 million worth of eGo clones. Janty has lost about $100 million on eGo design theft. Where are the complaints about that? Mechmod cloning is invisible against that.

It's wrong - but on the other hand, without the cloning there would be no vaping. Or it would be 1% of the size it is, to be accurate. Vaping = cloning. Just because the widget is big and expensive doesn't make it 'more' wrong somehow. What about the guys at Janty who lost $100m? Mechmods is close to zero in comparison. Which is 'more wrong'?

 

[Jman8]

More or less. Who can tell if a CE4 is an original or a copy? They all look identical and work identical. Who can tell if an eGo is an original or a copy? They all look identical and work identical. (Sort of.) Who knows if a carto is a Kanger original or a copy? Not me. Tell me if a 510 atty is original or not. Who invented it anyway. It's all copied.

Well, from where I stand on this issue, if it looks identical and design (appearance) is even a little bit of the appeal, then I believe all copiers ought to be sharing money with originator. I don't see why that would be an issue for anyone in the game. Resisting this strikes me as another form of greed, or just plain theft.

Vaping is built on copies. What I can't understand is why people complain about mechmod clones but nothing else. That stumps me. Is it the price? But that is opposite to the reality: 100,000 bucks worth of mechmod clones doesn't even come close to $100 million worth of eGo clones. Janty has lost about $100 million on eGo design theft. Where are the complaints about that? Mechmod cloning is invisible against that.

As I've noted on this thread a few times, I don't use mod devices and not sure if I ever will. So my complaints on cloning aren't about particular devices. It's about the principle and making a 1:1 copy and either refusing to pay originator or going even further and trying to lay claim to original designs.

As I am on cigalike device, those devices routinely strike me as metal tube with a button on it. But someone had to come up with original design for that, and I would say something in neighborhood of 20 years is what is fair that all people who copy that design ought to pay to the originator for copying that design. Then again, I am thinking that design / appearance of a cigalike isn't a huge draw, but still I think it would be fair to compensate originator with a percentage of gross revenue (I'm thinking 1 to 5%). With a fancy schmancy mod, I think appearance / design is really big deal and is why some vendors purposely market themselves as "product x clone" so they can appeal to those who desire the design aspect of product x.

It's wrong - but on the other hand, without the cloning there would be no vaping. Or it would be 1% of the size it is, to be accurate. Vaping = cloning. Just because the widget is big and expensive doesn't make it 'more' wrong somehow. What about the guys at Janty who lost $100m? Mechmods is close to zero in comparison. Which is 'more wrong'?

I would say, from my take on this discussion, they are equally wrong. In a world where FDA wants to play hardball with all manufacturers, I believe cloning may be the right choice. A way for black market to bite back and to inform FDA that you will not be able to keep up with all suppliers, try as you might.

 

[nuvole]

I'm sure there are some pipe smoker or former pipe smoker that convert to vape like myself due tothe cost of tobacco.

In the pipe society/forum, if one accidentally brought a fake(as what its know in the vaper's vocabulary as clone?)
Either they themselves would trash it, or other member would trade the fake with a cheaper authentic then burn the fake as firewood.
We don't argue at the end of the day, its just a pieces of wood.

Are we vaper somehow lack of dignity & integrity?

$0.02

 

[Rossum]

Are we vaper somehow lack of dignity & integrity?

Yes, some apparently do.

 

[tj99959]

My favorite mechanical mod isn't even made anymore. So the only way to get one was to buy a clone. Do you think that wrong, or should I have waited for one to show up used for $2000 for the $200 original?

 

[bluecat]

Yes, some apparently do.

Yeah.. because buying a clone is representative to an entire beings life. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[vaptamist]

Well you know what they say... If the shoe fits, buy a cheap knockoff and wear that instead.