Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

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Midniteoyl

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Engraving doesn't do anything for me; neither do mech mods, other than PV-1s... I don't know how one who smoked suddenly can't afford to buy something which costs less than several months of smoking...

LOL... Me and the wife spent ~$550 a month on smoking.... Still doesnt mean I think that 'original' is a good deal. As I said many times, its 'perceived value'. And, before you go on about how I 'perceived' cigs to be a good value because I spent so much on them, know that I didnt know about vaping then and as soon as I did, I switched. Mostly because of the value.
 

bluecat

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Yes, but when buying cigarettes it's over time. $5 here and there every few days. Yes it adds up, but when you smoke (at least for me) I didn't see it that way. But dropping $200 at once on something? It steers people away. Just because people are saving money by not smoking doesn't mean they want to spend what they would have spent on cigarettes on mods and stuff.

I was around a 5 pack a week smoker.... Paid around 6.50 per pack. 5 * 6.50 = 32.50 a week. 52 weeks in a year 32.50*52 = 1,690... Yes people smoke mroe than I did. a 2 pack a day smoker. 14 packs per week * 6.50 91 bucks a week. 91*52 = 4,732 dollars a year. I could buy a 3,000 dollar Otto Carver and still save 1,732 compared to smoking if I was a 2 day a pack smoker. So using your example everyone that smoked 2 packs a day should be sporting an Otto Carver, right?

That analogy drives me bat crazy. You can justify anything in life that way. Just say I wanted to buy so I did. No one has to justify anything with me. I don;'t give a crap if you make 5 dollars a week and go buy a 3,000 dollar device. You are an adult and are responsible for your own actions. I buy what I want. I am not weak and do not have to justify my purchases.
 
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Circa Survivor

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So says the owner of a REO Grand with a link to the mod-maker's site in their sig... :p But, that's different, right? You must be posting about the masses of destitute vapers in general... ;)

Don't have it anymore. Realized it wasn't for me and wasn't really worth it so I sold it and got my money back.
 

bluecat

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Ok, I guess I should have said most of us would not own ecigs had it not been for China's products/clones. We all can't shell out $150+ for an "American made" mod or atomizer.


That is true since no of the other ever went to market.

The idea was around.

Hon Lik was the first to bring it to market. Gilbert was fired and never pursued it.
 

Maurice Pudlo

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If it weren't for China we wouldn't have ecigs. I don't consider variations of metal tubes "innovation."

Your stuck on the metal tubes aren't innovation thing aren't you?

Metal tubes have been a part of innovation for longer than most of us have been alive and will continue to be a part of innovative design till we are long gone.

Lets take for example the often talked about voltage drop between mods, they all pretty much have differing values when tested against one another under similar circumstances. This is a function of the design of the switch, the machining quality, the metal composition, and any number of other factors. Predominantly the design is responsible for better or worse voltage drop values.

You may consider this less than innovative, while I'm not sure how a design that produces better (lower) voltage drop can not be innovative I'll carry on.

The roller switch is said to have a very smooth action, that's great for people who lack dexterity to make fickle switches work with any sort of smoothness. The switch is to my understanding highly effective in this aspect of its functionality, innovative if you will.

Similarly innovative is the use of laminated metals, both for artistic reasons and for conductivity. While the use of laminated metals is not entirely new it is innovative in this field of design.

Some mods have incorporated bold shapes to the tube section, some shapes help with the ergonomics some hinder the users ability to manage the mod. These design considerations can be said to be innovative as well when they increase the ease of use of a mod.

A pattern of cutouts on the tube may act to aid in the users ability to maintain grip on the mod, Provari is notable in this regard. Cutout designs will differ as will their comfort and functionality, leading to innovative designs. Some will incorporate logos to enhance the beauty of the device.

There exists many types of threading methods, any of which can effect several factors of performance and functionality of the device. Fine threading may increase contact area between parts, coarse threading may be more resilient to impact and less easy to cross threading and double helix threading may well increase assemble and disassemble speed and should decrease the torque required to loosen an assembly. Innovative in this field, I'd say there is plenty of room to improve so yes.

The design of a mod always calls for certain metals so as to perform as designed, one may utilize metal qualities to increase damage resistance or lighten the load of a person interested in carrying the least amount of weight on a long hike, all innovative uses of metal in this application.

Innovative use of coatings and plating have resulted in durability and functionality improvements, ZEN has the durability coating and many have used silver plating in their designs to improve conductivity, there is always room for improvements, so innovation will continue.

You see, innovation comes sometimes in very small steps, other times it comes in huge leaps and bounds. Innovation is linked to a particular function, innovation can be the use of a new material to accomplish a task in a way it was not accomplished in the past, or simply the treatment an older material receives that alters its performance, at times it could be simply a shape that impacts functionality.

Creativity, innovation, and resourcefulness, are all intertwined; any novel use of materials that serves a function can be considered innovative. Look at all of the interesting coil designs, some adapted from tube coils in other industries, others fully unique to the ecig world.

If all you see is a tube, a switch, and an end cap, you aren't seeing the many innovations this market is developing as it matures.

Maurice
 

twgbonehead

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[But] when a "rogue" Chinese manufacturer somehow gets a hold of a US companies authentic "boutique" mechanical mod for instance ... and then just flagrantly copies it (even to include authentic logos on it), and then sells the product through some Chinese internet middleman (such as FastTech) for sale back in the US .... that is just wrong.

Very very often, it is not some "rogue" manufacturer, it's exactly the same manufacturer!!! (This is extremely common with signature items like handbags, etc). I'm not sure how common it is with mods, but I suspect it's very prevalent with heads and other volume items.

A Chinese factory gets an order for, say, 1000 mods. They tool up, make the 1000, ship them to the original customer.

Then they keep the production line going, and make another 10,000 more, and sell them to Fasttech, et al. It has the original logos because it's made using the same procedures that the originals were (and the same engraving template). I would guess that this is not that common with mods, since very few of the originals are contracted out to Chinese fabs. It is, however, very common with anything that IS contracted out.

And. as I said in a previous post, this is not a moral failing, but rather an ideological difference between Chinese culture and ours.
 

Circa Survivor

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Your stuck on the metal tubes aren't innovation thing aren't you?

Metal tubes have been a part of innovation for longer than most of us have been alive and will continue to be a part of innovative design till we are long gone.

Lets take for example the often talked about voltage drop between mods, they all pretty much have differing values when tested against one another under similar circumstances. This is a function of the design of the switch, the machining quality, the metal composition, and any number of other factors. Predominantly the design is responsible for better or worse voltage drop values.

You may consider this less than innovative, while I'm not sure how a design that produces better (lower) voltage drop can not be innovative I'll carry on.

The roller switch is said to have a very smooth action, that's great for people who lack dexterity to make fickle switches work with any sort of smoothness. The switch is to my understanding highly effective in this aspect of its functionality, innovative if you will.

Similarly innovative is the use of laminated metals, both for artistic reasons and for conductivity. While the use of laminated metals is not entirely new it is innovative in this field of design.

Some mods have incorporated bold shapes to the tube section, some shapes help with the ergonomics some hinder the users ability to manage the mod. These design considerations can be said to be innovative as well when they increase the ease of use of a mod.

A pattern of cutouts on the tube may act to aid in the users ability to maintain grip on the mod, Provari is notable in this regard. Cutout designs will differ as will their comfort and functionality, leading to innovative designs. Some will incorporate logos to enhance the beauty of the device.

There exists many types of threading methods, any of which can effect several factors of performance and functionality of the device. Fine threading may increase contact area between parts, coarse threading may be more resilient to impact and less easy to cross threading and double helix threading may well increase assemble and disassemble speed and should decrease the torque required to loosen an assembly. Innovative in this field, I'd say there is plenty of room to improve so yes.

The design of a mod always calls for certain metals so as to perform as designed, one may utilize metal qualities to increase damage resistance or lighten the load of a person interested in carrying the least amount of weight on a long hike, all innovative uses of metal in this application.

Innovative use of coatings and plating have resulted in durability and functionality improvements, ZEN has the durability coating and many have used silver plating in their designs to improve conductivity, there is always room for improvements, so innovation will continue.

You see, innovation comes sometimes in very small steps, other times it comes in huge leaps and bounds. Innovation is linked to a particular function, innovation can be the use of a new material to accomplish a task in a way it was not accomplished in the past, or simply the treatment an older material receives that alters its performance, at times it could be simply a shape that impacts functionality.

Creativity, innovation, and resourcefulness, are all intertwined; any novel use of materials that serves a function can be considered innovative. Look at all of the interesting coil designs, some adapted from tube coils in other industries, others fully unique to the ecig world.

If all you see is a tube, a switch, and an end cap, you aren't seeing the many innovations this market is developing as it matures.

Maurice

So I still push the switch and it heats the coils, right? I get where you're coming from with innovation being these small little details, but be realistic here. A lot of people are trying to get the most bang for their buck, and aren't going flip .... over the fact that the mod they bought was based off the brainchild of someone else. I get that to some it's "morally" wrong and I should think so too, but I just don't. No amount of facts or opinions that you throw at me is going to make me change that. Yes, I have good morals and I'm generally not a bad guy, but when it comes to something like this, it just doesn't warrant any kind of moral obligation out of me. In short, I just don't care.
 

Bronze

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I think one reason why the originators charge a lot of money for their product is because they know it wont be long before the cloners come out with their copies so they figure they better cash in while they can. There's a significant market out there for early adopters where price is not very important relative to having the latest and greatest.
 

Circa Survivor

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I think one reason why the originators charge a lot of money for their product is because they know it wont be long before the cloners come out with their copies so they figure they better cash in while they can. There's a significant market out there for early adopters where price is not very important relative to having the latest and greatest.

"Greatest" is subjective.
 
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