Back in stock--Vaping zone gourmet concentrates

[we2rcool]

They taste great and are easy to use. What I like most though is at less than 1% I don't feell like I'm taking as big of a chance doing damage to my lungs as I do when I need to vape a flavor at 15 or 20%. Also at such low percentages they are super easy on atomizers. So they are a win win win for me.

After vaping some of the SCs, Gourmets and other concentrated flavors (like TFA Caramel Cappuccino), I'm beginning to have my doubts if a "smaller amount" of a concentrated flavor really = a smaller amount of toxic/damaging chemicals. Is the difference the actual amount of chemicals? Or merely how much the chemicals are diluted?

Say it takes "xyz grams" to flavor a 30ml bottle. In a bottle of "gourmet super concentrated flavor" virtually no pg/alcohol is added; in a bottle of "non-super-concentrated flavor" a LOT of pg/alcohol is added. We'd use much less of the concentrated flavor (because there's less pg/alcohol in the bottle of flavor)...but we'd still be getting the same amount of chemicals.

I'm very much like a canary in a coal mine. I've eaten & smoked nearly 100% "organic" for almost 10 years. I can tell the difference between organic/non-organic food by taste (nearly 100% of the time), and by smell nearly 75% of the time. The chemicals in the flavors all affect me differently - I can literally feel different sensations in my mouth, teeth, gums, throat & sinuses from the different chemicals in the different flavors.

We mixed up 5 of the SC Gourmets we got in a couple of days ago (all at 1% or less), and there's a couple that create such intense/uncomfortable sensations when I vape them that it looks like I'm not going to be able to vape them period. The sensation is very much like my mouth is being scalded :::sigh::: and it's not a sensation I've ever encountered before. So I'm guessing it's the diacetyl I'm detecting (since I've never knowingly vaped any flavor with diacetyl before).

We know that the levels of diacetyl in the SC Gourmet line is very low (where there's diacetyl at all Diacetyl in SC Gourmet flavors )...and if we're using only 1% in our mix...and I can still feel intense chemical reactions...?...then I'm starting to think that we're not getting "less chemicals" in a 'super concentrate' - we're just getting the same amount of chemicals we do in a 'normal flavor', they just aren't watered down.

Thoughts?

[Edit: btw, I just heard back from Baker Flavors, and apparently the flavors have not been recently tested for diacetyl levels since the chart/2010 in the link above. I was told:

To update whole list of our flavors for diacetyl content we need to check all recipes of flavorings and it will take some time.

But we can give you an idea how to know what kind of flavoring can contain diacetyl.

Usually, diacetyl can be contained in milk-cream flavors, such as: "cream-liquor", "tiramisu", "cakes", "biscuit", "Irish cream" and so on.

Significant amount of diacetyl is containted in the next flavorings: "Milk", "Cheese", "Cheese Cake", "Butter" and so on.
​

...and sad-sigh, that would likely include the chocolates, too - especially the creamy chocolate truffle. No wonder it's so good]

 

[Caridwen]

Why are the flavorings here considered so great?
Prices look good, is that all?

I've never tried the gourmet, but the super concentrated fruit flavors are really good.

 

[WallyO]

What percent is being used for the Gourmet Vanilla Sponge (Twinkie)? I did a small batch at 1.25% (3 drops in 6ml) and it is very perfumey (?) after two days. I'll leave it uncovered for a day and see if that helps.

 

[MsComptrtchr]

In my recent experience, Vanilla Spongecake is very strong - I use at 1%. Whereas the Creme Brulee required a higher percent - more like 1.5 or 2% - has anyone else found that Creme Brulee is lighter than the others? Even at 2% I'm getting a mild flavor - maybe that's just how Creme Brulee is. I did use only 1% on Chocolate Truffle and it's perfect (for me.)

 

[Rin13]

I believe the Gourmets generally are being used at less than 1%. I started out at 1 drop per 10ML and found that I like 2 drops in the ones I have. I think you used too much perhaps?

 

[michaelsil1]

What percent is being used for the Gourmet Vanilla Sponge (Twinkie)? I did a small batch at 1.25% (3 drops in 6ml) and it is very perfumey (?) after two days. I'll leave it uncovered for a day and see if that helps.

I mixed the Vanilla Spooncake @ .5%

 

[michaelsil1]

In my recent experience, Vanilla Spongecake is very strong - I use at 1%. Whereas the Creme Brulee required a higher percent - more like 1.5 or 2% - has anyone else found that Creme Brulee is lighter than the others? Even at 2% I'm getting a mild flavor - maybe that's just how Creme Brulee is. I did use only 1% on Chocolate Truffle and it's perfect (for me.)

How is the Creme Brulee? I have some coming.

 

[mgmrick]

Less is better.

Took me a long time to agree to that statement....lol

I am battling my father in law on this same subject right now. He just keeps saying I want lots of flavor and wants to mix at to high of a percentage then complains not enough taste. Too much flavor and then you don't get any flavor or not want was expected

Also different setups can effect the taste

 

[Proverb31]

After vaping some of the SCs, Gourmets and other concentrated flavors (like TFA Caramel Cappuccino), I'm beginning to have my doubts if a "smaller amount" of a concentrated flavor really = a smaller amount of toxic/damaging chemicals. Is the difference the actual amount of chemicals? Or merely how much the chemicals are diluted?

Say it takes "xyz grams" to flavor a 30ml bottle. In a bottle of "gourmet super concentrated flavor" virtually no pg/alcohol is added; in a bottle of "non-super-concentrated flavor" a LOT of pg/alcohol is added. We'd use much less of the concentrated flavor (because there's less pg/alcohol in the bottle of flavor)...but we'd still be getting the same amount of chemicals.

I'm very much like a canary in a coal mine. I've eaten & smoked nearly 100% "organic" for almost 10 years. I can tell the difference between organic/non-organic food by taste (nearly 100% of the time), and by smell nearly 75% of the time. The chemicals in the flavors all affect me differently - I can literally feel different sensations in my mouth, teeth, gums, throat & sinuses from the different chemicals in the different flavors.

We mixed up 5 of the SC Gourmets we got in a couple of days ago (all at 1% or less), and there's a couple that create such intense/uncomfortable sensations when I vape them that it looks like I'm not going to be able to vape them period. The sensation is very much like my mouth is being scalded :::sigh::: and it's not a sensation I've ever encountered before. So I'm guessing it's the diacetyl I'm detecting (since I've never knowingly vaped any flavor with diacetyl before).

We know that the levels of diacetyl in the SC Gourmet line is very low (where there's diacetyl at all Diacetyl in SC Gourmet flavors )...and if we're using only 1% in our mix...and I can still feel intense chemical reactions...?...then I'm starting to think that we're not getting "less chemicals" in a 'super concentrate' - we're just getting the same amount of chemicals we do in a 'normal flavor', they just aren't watered down.

Thoughts?

[Edit: btw, I just heard back from Baker Flavors, and apparently the flavors have not been recently tested for diacetyl levels since the chart/2010 in the link above. I was told:

To update whole list of our flavors for diacetyl content we need to check all recipes of flavorings and it will take some time.

But we can give you an idea how to know what kind of flavoring can contain diacetyl.

Usually, diacetyl can be contained in milk-cream flavors, such as: "cream-liquor", "tiramisu", "cakes", "biscuit", "Irish cream" and so on.

Significant amount of diacetyl is containted in the next flavorings: "Milk", "Cheese", "Cheese Cake", "Butter" and so on.
​

...and sad-sigh, that would likely include the chocolates, too - especially the creamy chocolate truffle. No wonder it's so good]

Well I know many people believe organic means natural, in a way it does since it mean compounds containing carbon and all life forms contain carbon. Just because a compound is carbon based doesn't mean it is good for you, or that if it is not carbon based it is bad for you.

Natural grown items mean they were not fertilized with any man made fertilizer, on the other hand... organic means it was fertilized with only carbon based fertilizers. Maybe you can tell the difference, I know I can taste the difference between butter and margin... sugar and sucralose. The only way to know a correct answer for your question would be to know the exact percentages of diacetyl in both flavors and then calculate the final percentage based on the final mix and the percent added.

A note on diacetyl.... The hazmat warnings are based on 300mg/kg concentrations. And the weight of the subjects were rats which weigh for less than a human. I am not saying it is good for you, I personally don't believe artificial sweeteners are good for you and have never consumed them prior to vaping.

I personal don't taste it in the truffle. I do taste it ( diacetyl or some perfume type substance in the tiramisu and the caramel). Since I don't like it, I won't vape it, but have decided to use it in my coffee instead. It is a main ingredient in any artificial butter flavoring including microwave popcorn. The damage reported was in massive quantity in factor workers. Chlorine bleach is far more harmful, I still use it in the laundry and drink it in tap water. I wouldn't inhale it. Nicotine is a potent poison and I vape it, but it is less harmful than cigarettes. We all have to make a choice, and we should make the best choice for ourselves.

I can't give you any hard answers. I can tell you people die in car accidents everyday. People who only ate healthy diets still are diagnosed with cancer. Good people are mugged and murdered. People who are heavy drinkers and smokers do live to be 80 or 100. So many factors come into play. Some things add more risk, but risk doesn't guarantee the hazard it increases will occur. My best advice is avoid anything you are not comfortable with, and if it burns your mouth don't suffer through it, find something else to vape.

 

[MsComptrtchr]

I dunno - maybe I used TOO high of a concentrate, but I can't really taste it much. The Chocolate Truffle and Vanilla Spongecake kick though - love them! I've got lots more to try - I have some Mandarin I want to try, but I'm worried about it being a tank cracker. Really looking forward to Cake, Caramel and Tiramisu. I also got Vanilla Rum, but it smells REALLY strong. I should have bought the Strawberries flavor too, but the price is sort of high on these flavors. I know that they will last forever, but I already have a lot of $$ invested in TFA flavors (like 40+ little bottles.)

Even at a couple of drops, I know this stuff works - 2 days after mixing, the colors really change in the bottle. I started with clear Vanilla Spongecake and 2 days later, it's orange-pink (same with Creme Brulee.) Funny though, the Chocolate Truffle is still clear as water - I love that for my coils.

How is the Creme Brulee? I have some coming.

 

[Rin13]

The Vanilla Rum is really good. It's one of the only ones I have from the line. I use it at 2 drops per 10ML, but I can still taste it even at just 1 drop per 10ML. The only other flavor I've tried is regular Rum, which is good but doesn't hold a candle to Vanilla Rum.

I dunno - maybe I used TOO high of a concentrate, but I can't really taste it much. The Chocolate Truffle and Vanilla Spongecake kick though - love them! I've got lots more to try - I have some Mandarin I want to try, but I'm worried about it being a tank cracker. Really looking forward to Cake, Caramel and Tiramisu. I also got Vanilla Rum, but it smells REALLY strong. I should have bought the Strawberries flavor too, but the price is sort of high on these flavors. I know that they will last forever, but I already have a lot of $$ invested in TFA flavors (like 40+ little bottles.)

Even at a couple of drops, I know this stuff works - 2 days after mixing, the colors really change in the bottle. I started with clear Vanilla Spongecake and 2 days later, it's orange-pink (same with Creme Brulee.) Funny though, the Chocolate Truffle is still clear as water - I love that for my coils.

 

[WallyO]

I mixed the Vanilla Spooncake @ .5%

I'll try the lower percentage. In fact I'll just dilute the batch I have now. I'll add 6ml unflavored to the mix I have and that will get me to around .62%. Do you let it sit long before vaping it. The batch I did at 1.25% turned pinkish after two days.

 

[michaelsil1]

I'll try the lower percentage. In fact I'll just dilute the batch I have now. I'll add 6ml unflavored to the mix I have and that will get me to around .62%. Do you let it sit long before vaping it. The batch I did at 1.25% turned pinkish after two days.

I usually let my juices steep a fairly long time.

 

[michaelsil1]

The Vanilla Rum is really good. It's one of the only ones I have from the line. I use it at 2 drops per 10ML, but I can still taste it even at just 1 drop per 10ML. The only other flavor I've tried is regular Rum, which is good but doesn't hold a candle to Vanilla Rum.

I have the Gourmet Vanilla Rum

I guess it's time to mix it with something!

 

[we2rcool]

Well I know many people believe organic means natural, in a way it does since it mean compounds containing carbon and all life forms contain carbon. Just because a compound is carbon based doesn't mean it is good for you, or that if it is not carbon based it is bad for you.

Natural grown items mean they were not fertilized with any man made fertilizer, on the other hand... organic means it was fertilized with only carbon based fertilizers. Maybe you can tell the difference, I know I can taste the difference between butter and margin... sugar and sucralose. The only way to know a correct answer for your question would be to know the exact percentages of diacetyl in both flavors and then calculate the final percentage based on the final mix and the percent added.

A note on diacetyl.... The hazmat warnings are based on 300mg/kg concentrations. And the weight of the subjects were rats which weigh for less than a human. I am not saying it is good for you, I personally don't believe artificial sweeteners are good for you and have never consumed them prior to vaping.

I personal don't taste it in the truffle. I do taste it ( diacetyl or some perfume type substance in the tiramisu and the caramel). Since I don't like it, I won't vape it, but have decided to use it in my coffee instead. It is a main ingredient in any artificial butter flavoring including microwave popcorn. The damage reported was in massive quantity in factor workers. Chlorine bleach is far more harmful, I still use it in the laundry and drink it in tap water. I wouldn't inhale it. Nicotine is a potent poison and I vape it, but it is less harmful than cigarettes. We all have to make a choice, and we should make the best choice for ourselves.

Thanks for taking the time to reply with such thoughtfulness!

For us, "organic" mean grown/prepared without synthetic (or natural) chemicals that are toxic low-dose poisons...although we understand the technical definitions & distinctions of the various terms & names - and the resulting confusion. Fwiw, even "certified organic" does not always indicate 'healthy' or 'natural' (but there's usually less toxic/harmful chemicals [and more healthy nutrients] than in conventionally grown/gmo foods).

I only mentioned it because I thought 'my story' might be helpful for those that are interested in knowing that these chemicals we inhale are noticeable, apparent & cause reactions in someone that doesn't normally inhale/ingest chemicals. When folks that eat & vape chemically laden food & tobacco, switch to vaping - they commonly feel much better - and hence assume that vaping is far "healthier" (or doesn't have nearly as many risks). However, after years of eating/smoking foods & tobacco that are not chemically laden, both my husband and myself felt substantially worse (overall) when making the switch to vaping.

We humans don't need "authorities" and "science" to tell us when something is unhealthy or unnatural - our body will tell us quite clearly. But just like how the foul/chemical taste of chlorine in tap water "disappears" after one has ingested it for a time (when switching from well water or purified water), after years/decades of smoking/ingesting multi-toxin-additives in cigs & foods, the 'foul warning' tastes & sensations 'disappear'...or perhaps were never even apparent for those that have never experienced extended periods of ingesting food/water/tobacco without chemicals.

My main point was just to give an example of the strong possibility that "needing to use less" in our mixes does not necessarily mean we're using (and inhaling) less chemicals...as most of us initially assume. When a chemical blend is concentrated, it doesn't usually mean there's less chemicals in the smaller amounts needed - it just means it hasn't been diluted as much, so we need to use less.

So perhaps there's actually no substantial actual difference in toxic 'flavor chemicals' content between using 20-25% of say, TFA - and using 1-2.5% of the concentrates.

I can't give you any hard answers. I can tell you people die in car accidents everyday. People who only ate healthy diets still are diagnosed with cancer. Good people are mugged and murdered. People who are heavy drinkers and smokers do live to be 80 or 100. So many factors come into play. Some things add more risk, but risk doesn't guarantee the hazard it increases will occur. My best advice is avoid anything you are not comfortable with, and if it burns your mouth don't suffer through it, find something else to vape.

I wasn't really looking for "answers", I was thinking there might be some vapers that wanted to discuss how it's very possible that "using less" doesn't necessarily mean "inhaling less chemicals". Lol, I'm too old to "suffer through" anything in life!

Vape ON!

 

[we2rcool]

Even at a couple of drops, I know this stuff works - 2 days after mixing, the colors really change in the bottle. I started with clear Vanilla Spongecake and 2 days later, it's orange-pink (same with Creme Brulee.) Funny though, the Chocolate Truffle is still clear as water - I love that for my coils.

Hmmm, that's just crazy! We mixed Creme Brulee, Chocolate Truffle, Van Spongcake (still laughing about 'spongeworthy'!), Strong Orange & Cream Charlotte on 9/28...and all of ours are still colorless.

We mixed 10ml of each at 1 drop per 2ml (about 1%)...and the Creme Brulee is definitely weak to us. I "want" to double the flavor (that's what I'd do if I were cooking), but I'm guessing upping it a quarter will probably do the trick.

As the Chocolate Truffle steeps, the dark chocolate flavor (to us) seems to be getting stronger. I'm thinking of spiking the Creme Brulee with the Truffle.

 

[Ipster]

Thank you, Proverb31! I've been searching & translating (with Google Translate), since I posted...and I found the table that you mention here (this is for the SC Gourmet line): Diacetyl in SC Gourmet flavors (apparently, as of 2010).

The list/table above does not include MANY of the Gourmet flavors which are likely to be major offenders...such as Cream Charlotte, all "milky & creamy flavors" are suspect (cream liqueurs, creamy cakes, creamy vanillas, creamy chocolates/candies, etc).

Hmmm, surely VZ is not unaware of the risks of inhaling diacetyl (???)

From what I've read about Diacetyl; it came into its own as a "buttery" ingredient.
so if you think about the flavours that need heavy cream, butter, etc as a component- they couldbe suspect.

 

[Chiku]

I dunno - maybe I used TOO high of a concentrate, but I can't really taste it much. The Chocolate Truffle and Vanilla Spongecake kick though - love them! I've got lots more to try - I have some Mandarin I want to try, but I'm worried about it being a tank cracker. Really looking forward to Cake, Caramel and Tiramisu. I also got Vanilla Rum, but it smells REALLY strong. I should have bought the Strawberries flavor too, but the price is sort of high on these flavors. I know that they will last forever, but I already have a lot of $$ invested in TFA flavors (like 40+ little bottles.)

Even at a couple of drops, I know this stuff works - 2 days after mixing, the colors really change in the bottle. I started with clear Vanilla Spongecake and 2 days later, it's orange-pink (same with Creme Brulee.) Funny though, the Chocolate Truffle is still clear as water - I love that for my coils.

The strawberries is my favourite flavour (but I don't like the strawberry gourmet flavour). The blueberry SC is really good too, I like it at 1.5% with 1drop per ml of lemon juice.

I can't wait to try vanilla sponge cake at .5. I tried it at 1% a little while ago and it was way to strong.

 

[Proverb31]

Thanks for taking the time to reply with such thoughtfulness!

For us, "organic" mean grown/prepared without synthetic (or natural) chemicals that are toxic low-dose poisons...although we understand the technical definitions & distinctions of the various terms & names - and the resulting confusion. Fwiw, even "certified organic" does not always indicate 'healthy' or 'natural' (but there's usually less toxic/harmful chemicals [and more healthy nutrients] than in conventionally grown/gmo foods).

I only mentioned it because I thought 'my story' might be helpful for those that are interested in knowing that these chemicals we inhale are noticeable, apparent & cause reactions in someone that doesn't normally inhale/ingest chemicals. When folks that eat & vape chemically laden food & tobacco, switch to vaping - they commonly feel much better - and hence assume that vaping is far "healthier" (or doesn't have nearly as many risks). However, after years of eating/smoking foods & tobacco that are not chemically laden, both my husband and myself felt substantially worse (overall) when making the switch to vaping.

We humans don't need "authorities" and "science" to tell us when something is unhealthy or unnatural - our body will tell us quite clearly. But just like how the foul/chemical taste of chlorine in tap water "disappears" after one has ingested it for a time (when switching from well water or purified water), after years/decades of smoking/ingesting multi-toxin-additives in cigs & foods, the 'foul warning' tastes & sensations 'disappear'...or perhaps were never even apparent for those that have never experienced extended periods of ingesting food/water/tobacco without chemicals.

My main point was just to give an example of the strong possibility that "needing to use less" in our mixes does not necessarily mean we're using (and inhaling) less chemicals...as most of us initially assume. When a chemical blend is concentrated, it doesn't usually mean there's less chemicals in the smaller amounts needed - it just means it hasn't been diluted as much, so we need to use less.

So perhaps there's actually substantial actual difference in toxic 'flavor chemicals' content between using 20-25% of say, TFA - and using 1-2.5% of the concentrates.



I wasn't really looking for "answers", I was thinking there might be some vapers that wanted to discuss how it's very possible that "using less" doesn't necessarily mean "inhaling less chemicals". Lol, I'm too old to "suffer through" anything in life!

Vape ON!

I do know it is possible to have more chemicals in a concentrate. Totally possible, but we don't know. I personally feel these are better for me, I feel if my coils are getting gunked so are my lungs. These do vape clean on coils. I feel the caramel and tiramisu are similar to vanilla custards from other lines. Just my thoughts.

 

[we2rcool]

From what I've read about Diacetyl; it came into its own as a "buttery" ingredient.
so if you think about the flavours that need heavy cream, butter, etc as a component- they couldbe suspect.

The ones listed in the link/table were tested and do contain diacetyl; most folks wouldn't think that raspberry or almond needed heavy cream/butter, etc. - but there is tiny amounts in those....and who knows what other flavors may use small amounts that one would never guess.

I emailed Baker Flavors in Russia (the source of VZ's Gourmet line) and asked exactly which flavors contained diacetyl that weren't on the list from 2010. His reply:

To update whole list of our flavors for diacetyl content we need to check all recipes of flavorings and it will take some time.
But we can give you an idea how to know what kind of flavoring can contain diacetyl.
Usually, diacetyl can be contained in milk-cream flavors, such as: "cream-liquor", "tiramisu", "cakes", "biscuit", "Irish cream" and so on.
Significant amount of diacetyl is containted in the next flavorings: "Milk", "Cheese", "Cheese Cake", "Butter" and so on.