Batteries Going Bad, Why?

[emus]

I would think over volts not under....

Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University makes some good lite reading.

I was waiting for the executive summary

 

[Tmartin63]

Okay, the charger it putting out 5.43 volts on each channel. I think we may have found the problem? Overcharging the batteries?

 

[JacobDaniel]

Just tested mine, reads 4.23 with no load (no batt).

 

[Kevin littell]

yes.....Overcharging.....throw that thing out and dont buy another one like it....


I like my cheap dual Trustfire.

 

[Tmartin63]

Holy cow, I need a PHD to really understand a lot of that....however I did find this pretty quick.

The Li‑ion charger is a voltage-limiting device that is similar to the lead acid system. The difference lies in a higher voltage per cell, tighter voltage tolerance and the absence of trickle or float charge at full charge. While lead acid offers some flexibility in terms of voltage cut‑off, manufacturers of Li‑ion cells are very strict on the correct setting because Li-ion cannot accept overcharge. The so-called miracle charger that promises to prolong battery life and methods that pump extra capacity into the cell do not exist here. Li-ion is a “clean” system and only takes what it can absorb. Anything extra causes stress.

 

[emus]

Okay, the charger it putting out 5.43 volts on each channel. I think we may have found the problem? Overcharging the batteries?

Thanks for sharing.
Maybe nitecore haters can join the trustfire haters now

 

[Kevin littell]

I only know what works....If you read further you'll find that Lithium Ions dont like to be discharged fully and have no tolerances for over voltage.


Last year my a friend went thru 3 motorcycle batteries in one season without checking voltage......When I pulled out the meter he was getting 22vdc at the battery.

110 bucks a shot on the battery.....27 bucks for a new voltage regulator.


(50 bucks and trip costs to the Home Depot for a good meter would have left alot of bourbon money in the checking account...)

 

[Tmartin63]

Lol, man I just want something that works like it's supposed to. I thought I did good getting the highly recommended Nitecore I4 Intellicharger V2 (sounded so impressive to say the name)...LOL

So I will send this one back for a replacement, dare I say I got it on fasttech. However they are (were) quick to replace other things I have had issues with. Now it takes days for them to respond to support tickets. Oh well. I guess I will buy another charger somewhere else, then use the one they send as a back up if it works

 

[Tmartin63]

Maybe this one?

Xtar XP4 - Battery Chargers

 

[Rickajho]

I have a protank with a 1.8 coil, was running the vamo at 7w today when the last one fried. On my nemesis I had a Russian 91% with a 1.3 coil.

These are the efest. Amazon.com: (2 Pieces) IMR 18350 800mah 3.7v High Drain Li-mn Rechargeable Battery with Button Top: Electronics

The pannies aren't listed anymore.

Well for one thing - what are they? One pictures shows them as eFest V1, the other picture shows eFest V2. The V1's are known to be junk with short life span and really aren't as high drain as was claimed. The V2's are ok. Not the greatest 18350 out there, but far better than the eFest V1. If you got "the deal of the century" on eFest V1 batteries - you got what you paid for. If they died that fast, especially if you were trying to run 1.3 ohm-ish - yeah, no real surprise there.

For that matter which version of a Nitecore i4 is it? A V1 or a V2? The first generation Nitecores had a great "feature" - charging batteries over-current rated at less than 1 amp capacity - which the eFest 800 mAh batteries are. Difference between Sysmax charger V1 and V2

If you can't tell us what the panasonics were - no idea what happened. But I'm seeing a pattern here: Two pack of probably eFest V1 batteries - only $4.99... Nitecore charger... most likely from a reseller off eBay or Amazon or FT... If you dig for the "cheapest possible price" this is what you may end up with. A lot of people by Nitecore because it's cheap. I'm sure if Trustfire came out with a 4 bay charger that was $1.50 cheaper everyone would be jumping ship on that one too.

If you don't have a meter how do you know what resistance your coils are running at? Or if they are shorted for that matter. A Vamo is not a stand in for a quality volt/ohm meter. A two digit display on a Vamo isn't going to tell you if your batteries are coming off that Nitecore at 4.2 volts, or overcharging to 4.25 volts - it all displays as the same "4.2" on a Vamo. First, you need a meter to see if the battery charger is even producing any output voltage at all. Maybe it died. A lot of Nitecore chargers do. If it is dead, do yourself a favor and get an xTar instead. They just work right and come backed with a USA based two year exchange/replace warranty. Junky chargers don't come backed by a two year warranty.

 

[Tmartin63]

Well for one thing - what are they? One pictures shows them as eFest V1, the other picture shows eFest V2. The V1's are known to be junk with short life span and really aren't as high drain as was claimed. The V2's are ok. Not the greatest 18350 out there, but far better than the eFest V1. If you got "the deal of the century" on eFest V1 batteries - you got what you paid for. If they died that fast, especially if you were trying to run 1.3 ohm-ish - yeah, no real surprise there.

For that matter which version of a Nitecore i4 is it? A V1 or a V2? The first generation Nitecores had a great "feature" - charging batteries over-current rated at less than 1 amp capacity - which the eFest 800 mAh batteries are. Difference between Sysmax charger V1 and V2

If you can't tell us what the panasonics were - no idea what happened.

But I'm seeing a pattern here: Two pack of probably eFest V1 batteries - only $4.99... Nitecore charger... most likely from a reseller off eBay or Amazon or FT... If you dig for the "cheapest possible price" this is what you may end up with. A lot of people by Nitecore because it's cheap. I'm sure if Trustfire came out with a 4 bay charger that was $1.50 cheaper everyone would be jumping ship on that one too.

If you don't have a meter how do you know what resistance your coils are running at? Or if they are shorted for that matter. A Vamo is not a stand in for a quality volt/ohm meter. A two digit display on a Vamo isn't going to tell you if your batteries are coming off that Nitecore at 4.2 volts, or overcharging to 4.25 volts - it all displays as the same "4.2" on a Vamo. First, you need a meter to see if the battery charger is even producing any output voltage at all. Maybe it died. A lot of Nitecore chargers do. If it is dead, do yourself a favor and get an xTar instead. They just work right and come backed with a USA based two year exchange/replace warranty. Junky chargers don't come backed by a two year warranty.

not sure if the Efest were V1 or V2, didn't say on amazon but they were about $7 a pair. I actually never knew there were two versions. The charger was purchased on FT and was V2. (Not sure if you saw the earlier post, but my charger was putting out 5.43 volts). The pannies were CGR18650CH. I only used the 350's in the vamo no lower than 1.7 ohm coil. I never used my meter on the charger, but I always check the batteries and coil with it before use. So this is just another lesson learned. I don't have a problem buying quality, that's what I thought I was getting. But I do look for the best price. Looks like I have more research to do. So since I have to basically start over with batteries and a charger. I am looking at the Panasonic NCR18650PD, the AW 18350 and the Xtar XP4. Any thoughts?

 

[Paul.K]

I am looking at the Panasonic NCR18650PD, the AW 18350 and the Xtar XP4. Any thoughts?

All solid choices. I have those Panasonics and the AW 18350's. There are just too many fake products out there, it matters more that you get them from a reputable vendor. No experience on the Xtar chargers but hear they are one of the best around. I use efest LUC charger and performs very well for me.

 

[emus]

My thought is Samsung INR18650-20R is among the top performing hi drain batts available.

Got just north of 0.3v drop across 0.6ohm coil.
My vendor was r-lsales.
Heat shrink wrap extends 1/8" on bottom; required some mods.
Flat bottom; needed on some mods.

 

[Tmartin63]

I don't really think I have a need for anything over 10 amps because I won't be going sub ohm range. The lowest I go is typically 1.3. That's why I was thinking the panny PD's due to them being 2900 mAh. But the reviews on the Samsung you mentioned say they really last. Hmmmmm, why not get both and compare? Whatever I get it will be from a reputable US vendor. Probably RTD or ORBTRONICS. Kidney Puncher has the samsungs for $10 each, not bad.

 

[emus]

I don't really think I have a need for anything over 10 amps because I won't be going sub ohm range. The lowest I go is typically 1.3. That's why I was thinking the panny PD's due to them being 2900 mAh. But the reviews on the Samsung you mentioned say they really last. Hmmmmm, why not get both and compare? Whatever I get it will be from a reputable US vendor. Probably RTD or ORBTRONICS. Kidney Puncher has the samsungs for $10 each, not bad.

The Samsung 20R outperforms many higher mah batts in your 3ish amp range.

I'd like to see volt drop compare if u get both.

 

[Tmartin63]

If I knew how to test that I would definitely post it for you. But I think I'm just going to go with the samsung. Sounds like the way to go and the best available right now. Thanks for the heads up. And thank you to everyone who helped me figure this out. I don't know why I never thought to check the charger

 

[emus]

If I knew how to test that I would definitely post it for you. But I think I'm just going to go with the samsung. Sounds like the way to go and the best available right now. Thanks for the heads up. And thank you to everyone who helped me figure this out. I don't know why I never thought to check the charger

In the name of safety and authenticity verification I think all new batts should be voltage drop tested.

Simply test will do.

Charge batt fully.
Measure coil resistance.
Measure batt voltage.
Measure batt voltage under coil load.
Measure batt voltage again.

Make a note of Final batt voltage minus under coil load voltage. If voltage drop is excessive batt may be bad or out of spec for application.

 

[Ryedan]

I am looking at the Panasonic NCR18650PD, the AW 18350 and the Xtar XP4. Any thoughts?

It's been a while since I bought a charger so I had a look at my favorite battery and charger review site. Here's their review on the Xtar XP4. They summarize at the bottom; looks great for lithium ion batts but not so good for NiMH batts. Personally, I like that the charge amperage can be lowered to 0.25A for small batteries. My Xtar WP2 does 0.5A minimum, but I only use 18650's so that works for me.

If I were only charging Li-ion batts with this and wanted a four bay charger, I would seriously consider this one.

 

[Switched]

Sad to hear...

Then again bargain basement shoppers get questionable products.

In my most humble opinion, a good charger and batteries cost a carton of smokes! It is a one time investment compared to combusting tobacco which was money going up in smoke.

I do not know why but vapers have become cheap MOFOs. Skimping on the most essential (batteries and chargers) while shelling $200-300 for a mod without bating an eyelash. What is wrong with this picture? You owe it to yourself to buy the best when is comes to batteries and chargers.

Intellicore has a bad rep, regardless of V1 or V2. Those that love 'em have the odd ball not the other way around. How many bad reviews or comments has anyone seen on Pila or Xtars? The old Trustfire TR001 were a good charger (3 yrs ago) these days questionable at best.

The XP4 is a nice charger, you may want to consider the VP1 as it has the ability to resurrect a battery SAFELY that has been vaped below its low voltage threshold. That being said, if anyone knows if the XP4 has the same capability, please chime in as the XP4 is new to the market.

 

[Switched]

... from the man himself.

Beware (Fake AW Sellers) !!!!!:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/70..._7V_18650.html

Shenzhen E-Young Technology Co., LTD

Discount China Wholesale AW IMR 14500 600mah 3.7V rechargeable battery [2567] - PowerWholeSale

Shenzhen FYTE Technology Co., Ltd. - battery,charger

http://www.sz-fyate.com/product/inde...type_id-1.html

http://www.sz-worldsales.com/categor...W+battery.html

Shenzhen Lupping Gift Co., Ltd. - battery,battery charger

http://jianlinkeji.en.alibaba.com/pr...warranty_.html

http://www.fairy-gift.com/aw-18650-i...tery-p-36.html

http://gaoduomei.en.made-in-china.co...m-Battery.html

Shenzhen Sibeile Technology Co., Ltd.

Shenzhen Honghaosheng Electronics Co., Ltd. - Polymer Lithium Battery,18650 Battery Pack

All resellers in Alibaba.com are selling fakes - Beware!!