Battery "sweating?"

[IllusionCrisis]

Disclaimer: I posted this in the new members' forum because I hadn't made my 5 posts yet. This is a repost. I apologize ._. The following is the content of the original post:

So I was hanging out at my favorite B&M for quite a while today. My friend works there, and his girlfriend stopped in with her friend. I noticed her friend's box mod, and asked to take a gander at it. I took a peek at the inside and saw rewrapped VTC5's. I assumed the previous wrapping came off and she rewrapped the batteries. Nothing unusual except, upon closer inspection, I saw small dark spots on both of the batteries. I told her that I thought the batteries might have vented or are damaged, because I have *never* seen batteries in this condition and suggested switching batteries. She said her dad had rewrapped said batteries and gave her that set-up. She had a mechanical (unregulated) box mod with a sub ohm type tank on it. (I *think* it was an Arctic tank, but I was much more concerned about those batteries to care much.)

Fast forward about 30 or so minutes, and her dad walks into the shop. As soon as I realize who he is, I inquire about the spots on the batteries.

He attempted to assure me that it was nothing unusual, that when you put great stress on batteries, they tend to "sweat" and make these spots. I was not assured, but this person seemed to know what he was talking about.

Now, I've been researching batteries lately and I don't claim to be an expert, but from what I've learned, battery warping like this is not normal. I chatted with the guy for a while and he claimed that he had apparently ran those same batteries with a 0.035Ω build consistently with no problem. I cringed when I heard this. I think I get where these "sweat spots" came from.

To describe the condition of the batteries further, these were VTC5's (I know this because the girl's father informed me of this, and I recognized the markings) that had been rewrapped in a slightly clearer, bronze colored wrap. The spots were numerous, maybe a dozen or two, dark brown and present all over the batteries. I could feel these spots as I ran my fingers over the batteries.

Could anyone possibly explain what happened to these batteries? Or what these spots were? Or what the heck "battery sweat" is? I honestly fear for their safety, yet the man claimed to have been vaping for 5+ years, whereas I have only been vaping for approximately 1.5 years, so I figured he probably knew what he was doing.

Apologies for being potentially over-detailed and for the mile long post. :\

 

[edyle]

so it's not a case only of wetness on the batteries, but you're saying there was physical warping/deformation on the surface of the battery?

0.035 ohms works out to 400+ watts.

If I wanted to vape 400 watts, I'd use 4 batteries.

 

[MrDripper]

Batteries should never be re-wrapped. I'd not be surprised if the black wrapping was electrical tape.
I would suggest to your friend that they change those batteries out and dispose of them before they are minus a face.
If they don't, you'll not want to be close by when they blow.
Just MHO

 

[IllusionCrisis]

so it's not a case only of wetness on the batteries, but you're saying there was physical warping/deformation on the surface of the battery?

0.035 ohms works out to 400+ watts.

If I wanted to vape 400 watts, I'd use 4 batteries.

Yes, there was no wetness, he just seemed to like calling this warpedness "sweating." It was physical deformation. Yeah, my eyes got really wide when he said 0.035 ohms and I asked if he meant 0.35, but nope. He said 0.035. And that was his married pair for the box his daughter was using.

 

[mauricem00]

sounds like a dangerous mix of ignorance and arrogance battery can leak when overheated and the fact that this did not result in a fire is just luck. it does not mean this is safe.and he put his daughter at risk by giving her those batteries. these people should have been educated by the store where they shop.but they are an accident looking for a place to happen.

 

[IllusionCrisis]

Batteries should never be re-wrapped. I'd not be surprised if the black wrapping was electrical tape.
I would suggest to your friend that they change those batteries out and dispose of them before they are minus a face.
If they don't, you'll not want to be close by when they blow.
Just MHO

It was actually a really nice wrap job, I thought it was OEM at first until I spotted the markings of a VTC.

Why shouldn't batteries be rewrapped? I'm not well-versed enough to even want to try.

And yeah, I told her she shouldn't use those any more. And that if she enjoys having a hand and lower jaw, she should swap those out fast.

My main question is, what were these spots? Was it venting? Maybe it was warping from heat?
I know they were VTC5's, but seriously, it's not worth keeping them just for that fact haha.

 

[inspects]

Yes, there was no wetness, he just seemed to like calling this warpedness "sweating." It was physical deformation. Yeah, my eyes got really wide when he said 0.035 ohms and I asked if he meant 0.35, but nope. He said 0.035. And that was his married pair for the box his daughter was using.

Unbelievable, its not any wonder why they are trying to regulate vaping......

 

[IllusionCrisis]

See, he had this know-it-all-ness about him that had me confused for actual knowledge. I had a VERY bad feeling about it, but I didn't know enough about what he called "sweating" to call him on it though :\

So, is this venting? Or is it something a bit different?

This is the third time I've run into people (in three different states, no less) where the people had no regard for Ohm's law or battery safety. I've literally had someone tell me that Samsung-25R 20A batteries are safe down to 0.12 ohms.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I'll inform his daughter and direct her to this site for info. Hopefully she doesn't display the same arrogance, haha. She seemed scared when I told her they could explode or catch fire, though.

 

[inspects]

See, he had this know-it-all-ness about him that had me confused for actual knowledge. I had a VERY bad feeling about it, but I didn't know enough about what he called "sweating" to call him on it though :\

So, is this venting? Or is it something a bit different?

This is the third time I've run into people (in three different states, no less) where the people had no regard for Ohm's law or battery safety. I've literally had someone tell me that Samsung-25R 20A batteries are safe down to 0.12 ohms.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I'll inform his daughter and direct her to this site for info. Hopefully she doesn't display the same arrogance, haha. She seemed scared when I told her they could explode or catch fire, though.

I don't really know myself either, never seen it occur, but I would certainly imagine the battery is on the verge of failure.

 

[inspects]

Makes me wonder why anyone would even try to vape as such a low ohm in a mech mod....man oh man...if a .3 (or thereabouts) doesn't provide satisfaction I can't imagine how .12 would......

 

[edyle]

It was actually a really nice wrap job, I thought it was OEM at first until I spotted the markings of a VTC.

Why shouldn't batteries be rewrapped? I'm not well-versed enough to even want to try.

And yeah, I told her she shouldn't use those any more. And that if she enjoys having a hand and lower jaw, she should swap those out fast.

My main question is, what were these spots? Was it venting? Maybe it was warping from heat?
I know they were VTC5's, but seriously, it's not worth keeping them just for that fact haha.

That would be my guess - deformation stress , battery getting hot, chemical reaction proceeding faster that the battery is designed for.

 

[Cullin Kin]

I seen these spots before. They happened on my VTC4's a couple of times and I never built below 0.25Ω. There was a thread on this about 6 months ago, let me see if I can find it.

0.035Ω and 0.12Ω are crazy. Stay away from those people.

Here's one thread: "My battery wrap looks damp inside, is it OK to continue using it" | E-Cigarette Forum

Does it look like that? (Not the black '1' but the staining underneath)

 

[Bunnykiller]

possible lubricant used to help slide the sleeve over the battery getting discolored due to heating issues?

 

[IllusionCrisis]

I seen these spots before. They happened on my VTC4's a couple of times and I never built below 0.25Ω. There was a thread on this about 6 months ago, let me see if I can find it.

0.035Ω and 0.12Ω are crazy. Stay away from those people.

Here's one thread: "My battery wrap looks damp inside, is it OK to continue using it" | E-Cigarette Forum

Does it look like that?

No, see, I did a cursory google and ECF search and found nothing. I've never seen something like this.

But no, it didn't look like that, that looks kind of like someone stuck water underneath the wrap.

These batteries looked like they had dirt sitting between the battery and the wrap (though I know it's not, with the admission of the super-sub-ohmer).

EDIT: I REALLY wish I'd have taken a picture of these batteries, but I wanted them far, far away from me haha.

EDIT2: I'm doing more extensive searches now, and still no info.

 

[Cullin Kin]

With the builds they were running those batteries at, I wouldn't touch them either.

Edit: Totally read your last comment completely in reverse. Sorry!

Very strange.

 

[Mooch]

Whatever caused those spots it is not good! Cells do not sweat, warp, or discolor unless something very bad has happened or something splashed onto the cells.

I've tested lots of cells that still had a film of what I think was a byproduct of manufacture still on the outside of the can. Perhaps a lubricant for the drawing process? It can also lead to that "wet look" under a wrap.

If the spots were raised it sounds like rusting or corrosion, either would cause the metal to expand and rise up as it oxidized. And both of those causes would be bad even if the cells weren't being abused so badly. OMG...

If the cells burst at any of those points it wouldn't be any worse than if the top seals gave way though. Otherwise, the top seals would give way first, as designed. But any way a cell bursts is bad and to be avoided! I will personally pay for a new set of cells if she promises to give them to you immediately (so you can photograph them) and never, ever try to use cells that look like that again.

Considering that international standards for cell safety testing use a 0.070 ohm load for short circuit testing, I would be amazed that he actually had a 0.035 ohm build. If he did, and then passed those cells on to his daughter...well...I'm out of words.

 

[roxynoodle]

Well, I rewrap a battery if I get a tear in a wrapper. I also use mech tubes so its important the wrapper be in perfect condition. I don't see anything wrong with rewrapping one.

However, anyone with half a brain would not vape at 0.0325 ohms (I would like to know what he measured it with). Nor would I use obviously damaged batteries.

If you see them again, run away, lol!

 

[IllusionCrisis]

Whatever caused those spots it is not good! Cells do not sweat, warp, or discolor unless something very bad has happened or something splashed onto the cells.

I've tested lots of cells that still had a film of what I think was a byproduct of manufacture still on the outside of the can. Perhaps a lubricant for the drawing process? It can also lead to that "wet look" under a wrap.

If the spots were raised it sounds like rusting or corrosion, either would cause the metal to expand and rise up as it oxidized. And both of those causes would be bad even if the cells weren't being abused so badly. OMG...

If the cells burst at any of those points it wouldn't be any worse than if the top seals gave way though. Otherwise, the top seals would give way first, as designed. But any way a cell bursts is bad and to be avoided! I will personally pay for a new set of cells if she promises to give them to you immediately (so you can photograph them) and never, ever try to use cells that look like that again.

Considering that international standards for cell safety testing use a 0.070 ohm load for short circuit testing, I would be amazed that he actually had a 0.035 ohm build. If he did, and then passed those cells on to his daughter...well...I'm out of words.

The bold/underline part. That's precisely what they looked like. Small, raised brown specks. I think it is either rusting or corrosion, now that you mention it. It was not like the previous post link of the battery that had the "wet look."

Seriously that was driving me up the wall, haha. I've been searching for about an hour now, and I can't find a picture of other batteries similar to the ones I saw.

I was planning on going back up there tomorrow, because my friend is working again. I don't know this girl or her dad personally. She's a friend of a friend of a friend, so I'll try my hardest to try to get in contact with her to get her to bring the cells. I REALLY want to photograph these cells too, because there doesn't seem to be anything like this on the web haha.

 

[edyle]

The bold/underline part. That's precisely what they looked like. Small, raised brown specks. I think it is either rusting or corrosion, now that you mention it. It was not like the previous post link of the battery that had the "wet look."

Seriously that was driving me up the wall, haha. I've been searching for about an hour now, and I can't find a picture of other batteries similar to the ones I saw.

I was planning on going back up there tomorrow, because my friend is working again. I don't know this girl or her dad personally. She's a friend of a friend of a friend, so I'll try my hardest to try to get in contact with her to get her to bring the cells. I REALLY want to photograph these cells too, because there doesn't seem to be anything like this on the web haha.

do show her a picture of exploded lithium batteries and advise her that these things pack the kind of energy that you have in a bullet.
too many people treat these things like they's regular 'energizer' batteries; they are not; they are more like small car batteries.

 

[IllusionCrisis]

do show her a picture of exploded lithium batteries and advise her that these things pack the kind of energy that you have in a bullet.
too many people treat these things like they's regular 'energizer' batteries; they are not; they are more like small car batteries.

Oh, I'm going to show her a video of a battery exploding, haha. That's what I was shown when I first got an 18650. I really can't comprehend why her dad has such blatant disregard for safety. I swear, the natural volt drop of their mods must be saving their lives.

In any case, I can't do any of this until tomorrow, and it's really late here. I'll keep you guys posted tomorrow. Thank you all VERY much for your help.